What gives the US special status?

im sure it would .. rather than doing your own research .. you asked the question .. ive already researched and satisfied myself many times over already.

if i sound irritated its not because i am .. as i am not .. but we brits dont pussy foot about walking on egg shells .. if it needs said it gets said.

political correctness is for you yanks and blairite new labour lovies.

ive lived longer than most and have recognised governments hypocracy world wide for what it is for decades not 5 mins like most here.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

Originally posted by Kram09
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Are you from Britain? If not, I should explain that most adults here are actually aware of rationing!

I'm curious about your point about there being much less, but it being "shared out far more fairly". I've seen various explanations as to why rationing actually benefited the health of most people but I've never seen 'shared more fairly' as an excuse before. Can you point me to where this has actually come from?

Also, I'm not so sure about your point about Lend Lease. Perhaps it's not intentional but it gives the suggestion that American aid alleviated what was happening. The reality is that after Lend Lease came into effect, rationing actually got worse and became stricter, not easier. Staples such as bread and potatoes only began to be rationed after the war: potatoes famously weren't rationed due to the 'Fish and Chips' ethic during the war itself.

To answer your questions first has to do with economics if a commodity becomes rare only the rich can afford it.So if the free market was allowed to run its course poor people would have starved to death. As for the lend lease program it saved Britain as i stated earlier the agricultural industry was not able to feed but 1 out of 3 citizens.Through rationing and shipments from US farmers starvation was avoided. Now back to thread The united States doesn't all ways do the right things.But ill say we try to do the right things even when we make a wrong decision.

Case in point is Iraq.Though the reasons for being there are dubious at best. This war was not started over oil imperialism or anything so mundane it was started over guilt.In order for people to understand why bush invaded Iraq you need to understand what his father did the first time. Bush Sr Sent troops to the middle east at the request of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. This was partly caused by Saddam's belief that the United States would not intervene on the side of Kuwait. He believed that the United States was still reeling from its experience in Vietnam, and that the U.S. was overly concerned about the loss of lives of its military personnel. Hussein bragged to Glaspie that the United States was not the kind of nation that could absorb 10,000 casualties in one day as Iraq had during the Iraq-Iran war.

Now As we all know the us did send troops removed the Iraqis and took the war to them by starting to invade the country.Now heres where the guilt comes in At the same time we were fighting them we were also negotiating with the Kurds in the north telling them if they help us we could set up a government where they could get representation and started supplying weapons and training.Now do to international pressures from Europe especially Turkey Bush Sr backed down withdrew.Breaking promises made by the president.This caused a slaughter directed against the Iraqi people most especially the Kurdish people.They paid dearly for the United States lack of backbone millions were killed and yes he used chemical weapons as well.

Now flash forward even before Bush Jr took the white house he stated publicly we need to deal with Saddam. The main reason for this is again guilt his father knew he made a mistake not removing him and only made things far worse. So now comes the trumped up excuse by the president of combating terrorism he should have tried just using the truth because Saddam was a danger to everyone and knew the UN resolutions were a joke.

So now as strong as the sentiment is to withdrawal even Obamma wanted out but where still there know why? Simple pulling out now would send the middle east spiraling into turmoil. And as of yet the Iraqis are still incapable of running there government.There making improvements but no where near the speed we hoped.

So bottom line the reason were still there is because were still needed there.The United States doesn't all ways make good decisions but we do as a rule try to do what is right or at least what we believe to be right.I would love it if the US didn't have to play international police quite frankly I'm tired of the role but every time something goes wrong where do people turn to the United States by all means start taking care of your own problems quite frankly we need the break!

reply to post by dragonridr


No offense but of all the reasons i've heard for America invading Iraq, that has to be the most absurd.

Originally posted by manxman2
im sure it would .. rather than doing your own research .. you asked the question .. ive already researched and satisfied myself many times over already.

if i sound irritated its not because i am .. as i am not .. but we brits dont pussy foot about walking on egg shells .. if it needs said it gets said.

political correctness is for you yanks and blairite new labour lovies.

ive lived longer than most and have recognised governments hypocracy world wide for what it is for decades not 5 mins like most here.

Fair enough. I appreciate your directness. I'm sure that you can appreciate that I will have take your post on the events leading up to Pearl Harbor, as an opinion, (one I don't necessarily disagree with) but without the links or titles of the books, or.... and yes, I am aware of google searches, was just hoping for something other than wikipedia... As I said, I don't necessarily disagree with you and it would have been a great opportunity to suggest readings (books, maybe?) that *I* or others may not have already seen... Part of the point of these discussions is to share the knowledge, right? *shrug*

As for government hypocrisy, that can be found at every level within every government within every country. That I do agree with. I don't mind admitting that I was looking forward to this new administration with "cautious optimism"...


ed: for a little p.c.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

bush senior encircled the oil so it stayed under ground until the states needed it.

bush junior aided and abetted by blair then went to collect it .. america will not leave iraq until the extraction of the oil is a safe process under-taken by american concerns .. and the monies paid to iraq for the theft of THEIR natural rescources will in the main go towards reperations to guess who ..??

check out how much the likes of coca cola his recieved in reperations for lost business then times it by a thousand to cover all the other multi-nationals who traded there have claimed out of iraqs oil money since bush senoir grabbed it and let saddam sit over it to keep it safe until his associates at haliburton and others neede to make a buck..

the 2 million or so iraqs that have died since mean nothing to them..

we are not real people to the likes of the bushes and blairs .. we are not them and so we do not matter one iota .. we really dont we are just ants under their feet and they choose who gets stamped on.

ps pearl harbour is one of the easiest cases to put together now especially with all the foia documents avaliable .. a simple google search will get you started as i am sure you are aware of [edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

Originally posted by manxman2
.. and the monies paid to iraq for the theft of THEIR natural rescources ...

What a curious turn of phrase!

How DO you define "theft" in the UK then?

Do all of you thieves pay you for what they "steal"?

I bet that gives the bobbies terrible headaches every time a transaction is made at market.

Still, it's some terribly civilized thieves you have there.



[edit on 2009/10/10 by nenothtu]

its theft when you knock a country down and charge them for it.

then charge them again to rebiuld it.

so commercial interests pay for the oil and the monies paid is taken back of them for said debts.

notice the 2 million dead i mentioned didnt warrant a comment .. thats because they mean the same to most of you yanks as they meant to your administration.
now maybe that has something to do with the way you are now percieved as a nation worldwide.

i would wager that the vast majority of americans have not even the slightest inkling of how the world truly views americans you live in a bubble of self delusion.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

Originally posted by manxman2
.

i would wager that the vast majority of americans have not even the slightest inkling of how the world truly views americans you live in a bubble of self delusion.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

I have an inkling....and I care not. Do you know how the world truly views her majesties loyal subjects?

yes.

they are disliked and for good reason.

google my name and you will re-alise your error in assumption.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

reply to post by LadySkadi

i understand the confusion there, apologies for that.. i used the term american citizen to explain that i was born and brought up in that country, and legally i still am a citizen, i use 'they' in reference because other than in legalities i left the country for a reason and no longer have a nationality i consider myself a part of. I also agree with your comments about generalizing, but sometimes thats the best way to explain whats going on in these thoughts of mine lol..and no it isnt just for useless ranting, its often to let others know who i am discussing.. as well as making it clear that i understand there are always exceptions, but speaking of a mass populace, generalizing tends to work for that

Originally posted by manxman2
its theft when you knock a country down and charge them for it.

But you said we PAID them for what we "stole". Get confused much? or are you just trying to change the argument now?

then charge them again to rebiuld it.

People build thing for you there for free? I need to check into migrating to Manx!

so commercial interests pay for the oil and the monies paid is taken back of them for said debts.

You don't have to pay your debts, either? Manx is sounding better every minute!

notice the 2 million dead i mentioned didnt warrant a comment .. thats because they mean the same to most of you yanks as they meant to your administration.

I'd have to question that precise figure, but no matter. Let's just say "a BUNCH of corpses". Is there a particular reason they should mean more to me, or "my" administration, than they meant to their own countrymen, who relish in blowing them up?

now maybe that has something to do with the way you are now percieved as a nation worldwide.

Could be. Those POOR, POOR jihadists! All they really want is to be left alone to massacre folks in peace. They're just misunderstood, eh?

i would wager that the vast majority of americans have not even the slightest inkling of how the world truly views americans you live in a bubble of self delusion.

I can't speak for "the vast majority of Americans", But I personally have a pretty fair grasp of it, having actually engaged them in coversations while pulling their kittens out of trees and whatnot. The ones we help (at least the ones who can remember just WHO'S helping them) have a pretty good opinion of us. The ones we come down on, and their allies, not so much. Maybe they should try not poking us in the eye, or biting the hand that fed them?

i only needed to read this far

People build thing for you there for free? I need to check into migrating to Manx!


to know what your game plan is .. so the rest of the post you wasted your time on but i am sure it was just as unworthy of reply.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

reply to post by Full_Vision


Understood, thanks for clearing that up. General statements are just kinda pet peeve of mine, I think they make it difficult to focus on an issue... that and the fact that I put my thesis proposal in jeopardy for using too many of them, makes me a bit sensitive to the tendency, now.





[edit on 10-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by manxman2
its theft when you knock a country down and charge them for it.

then charge them again to rebiuld it.

so commercial interests pay for the oil and the monies paid is taken back of them for said debts.

notice the 2 million dead i mentioned didnt warrant a comment .. thats because they mean the same to most of you yanks as they meant to your administration.
now maybe that has something to do with the way you are now perceived as a nation worldwide.

i would wager that the vast majority of Americans have not even the slightest inkling of how the world truly views Americans you live in a bubble of self delusion.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

Who's making the money off Iraq being rebuilt? In case you are unaware its european companies. Do you even have a clue who just made the latest oil deal in Iraq? Let me help you Norwegian oil company DNO. So i guess Europe needs to stop raping the country of all that oil money and start giving away there services what you think. Oh wait companies expect to be paid for providing services i believe that call that capitalism.

As far as world opinion you obviously don't travel much with my job i do and ill tell you an American is welcome in more parts of Europe than the British so my suggestion take your own advice and try to get along with your neighbors. And for what ever reason you decided to vilify the only country that supports the UK is beyond me. And if you truly hat the US like it seems bear in mind the British caused the US to come into being.

PS I'm glad you have passion but blaming your problems on other people wont get you anywhere,I suggest you start dealing with the scary stuff such as terrorism etc by looking in the mirror instead of placing blame.Why don't the British stop meddling in all those countries and stop trying to push the United States into a war with Iraq. Since apparently the French and British don't think Obammas being tough enough on Iran.

[edit on 10/10/09 by dragonridr]

reply to post by manxman2


So are you stating you are from the isle of man? and if you are, so? This has what to do with what?

The Isle of Man (pronounced /ˈmæn/; Manx: Ellan Vannin,[1] pronounced [ˈɛlʲən ˈvanɪn]), or Mann (Manx: Mannin, [ˈmanɪn]), is a self-governing British Crown dependency, located in the Irish Sea between of the islands of Britain and Ireland. The head of state is Queen Elizabeth II, who holds the title of Lord of Mann. The Crown is represented by a Lieutenant Governor. The island is not part of the United Kingdom but foreign relations, defence, and ultimate good governance of the Isle of Man are the responsibility of the government of the United Kingdom.


point being? or are you talking about the ship sorry, I havent re-alised my error.

Originally posted by manxman2
.. so the rest of the post you wasted your time on but i am sure it was just as unworthy of reply.

Of course it was. They generally are when you've got nuthin'.

reply to post by Maxmars

I agree about your points on the media, reality is by far different than what the media wants the people to think and believe.. absolutely. But my knowledge of the dislike of Americans by other nations stems from a number of people i have spoke to or simply met randomly over the years.. for example one of my first days at a job here a customer asked me- because of my accent- if i was from America or Canada, when i told her America she said nothing else but put her rude little nose in the air and walked away from me as though i were crap under her shoe.. this was a little white haired old women even! this happened before i better understood peoples views on America and its people as a whole and it wasnt the last time i had similar incidents..even online friends from other countries and from America itself share these views. I also agree with you about calming down and slander not helping anything.. it doesnt, and i apologize for getting a bit riled up, its just a topic that tends to anger me quite a bit..and the people in America, many of them anyhow, simply refuse to look at the problem or believe how they are seen across the globe by others, if they cant even take the time to think from anothers perspective on them they arent ever going to be able to change anything.. for years i have nicknamed the country 'the test tube nation' as it seems to be a nation of guinea pigs for the elite..which of course helps nothing at all

Originally posted by dragonridr

Originally posted by manxman2
its theft when you knock a country down and charge them for it.

then charge them again to rebiuld it.

so commercial interests pay for the oil and the monies paid is taken back of them for said debts.

notice the 2 million dead i mentioned didnt warrant a comment .. thats because they mean the same to most of you yanks as they meant to your administration.
now maybe that has something to do with the way you are now perceived as a nation worldwide.

i would wager that the vast majority of Americans have not even the slightest inkling of how the world truly views Americans you live in a bubble of self delusion.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

Who's making the money off Iraq being rebuilt? In case you are unaware its european companies. Do you even have a clue who just made the latest oil deal in Iraq? Let me help you Norwegian oil company DNO. So i guess Europe needs to stop raping the country of all that oil money and start giving away there services what you think. Oh wait companies expect to be paid for providing services i believe that call that capitalism.

As far as world opinion you obviously don't travel much with my job i do and ill tell you an American is welcome in more parts of Europe than the British so my suggestion take your own advice and try to get along with your neighbors. And for what ever reason you decided to vilify the only country that supports the UK is beyond me. And if you truly hat the US like it seems bear in mind the British caused the US to come into being.

PS I'm glad you have passion but blaming your problems on other people wont get you anywhere,I suggest you start dealing with the scary stuff such as terrorism etc by looking in the mirror instead of placing blame.Why don't the British stop meddling in all those countries and stop trying to push the United States into a war with Iraq. Since apparently the French and British don't think Obammas being tough enough on Iran.

[edit on 10/10/09 by dragonridr]

flouncing about attributing words like hate to people is strictly the preserve of the intelectually bereft.

im not british your governments are as bereft of human compassion as each other.

european contracts in iran .. never .. oh hang on a min tho.

i wonder if thats why blair lied to parliment with his 45 minute launch of weapons of mass destruction speech before standing shoulder to shoulder with georgie boy watching it unfold on telly.


ps give the vilify and hate bull# a rest .. if i disliked your ordinary americans then i simply wouldnt speak with them.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by manxman2]

Originally posted by Remixtup
reply to post by manxman2

 

So are you stating you are from the isle of man? and if you are, so? This has what to do with what?

The Isle of Man (pronounced /ˈmæn/; Manx: Ellan Vannin,[1] pronounced [ˈɛlʲən ˈvanɪn]), or Mann (Manx: Mannin, [ˈmanɪn]), is a self-governing British Crown dependency, located in the Irish Sea between of the islands of Britain and Ireland. The head of state is Queen Elizabeth II, who holds the title of Lord of Mann. The Crown is represented by a Lieutenant Governor. The island is not part of the United Kingdom but foreign relations, defence, and ultimate good governance of the Isle of Man are the responsibility of the government of the United Kingdom.


point being? or are you talking about the ship sorry, I havent re-alised my error.

thats right i have a manx passport.
i only live 50 miles from england unfortunately .. but on the positive side that 50 miles is all water.

unfortunately that hasnt stopped 40,000 of them relocating here and bringing their ferrals with them along with 20,000 irish and their ferral kids .. the place is starting to resemble the shiitholes they left now.

so yeah i understand what other countries think of the brits .. i also know there isnt a country in the world where people are in the majority that think america are in iraq for anything other than oil.

reply to post by Remixtup

Are you sure this island is what he was referring to?

I googled it and got a type of cat.

Manx - a type of pussycat.

Oh well, maybe I didn't look far enough.

Then, maybe I did.