Mexican UFOs Debunked

The recent sightings of UFOs in Mexico may have a far more plausible explanation than little green men: nuclear science researcher, Julio Herrera, claims that the infra-red footage released shows nothing more than ball lightning. Ball lightning is a rare atmospheric condition in which lightning has no place to "ground." Thus, it remains in a self-contained sphere. The pilot's statements regarding the suspected "intelligence" of the balls of light coincides with the lightning theory: the spheres of electrical energy would be attracted to the metal of the plane's fuselage.
CNN Coverage

A cluster of mysterious objects that surrounded a Mexican Air Force plane, alarming the pilots and sparking a UFO scare, could be a weather phenomenon known as ball lightning, a scientist said on Friday.

It seems to me that for how often ball lightning is used as a rationale behind unexplained aerial objects, there would be more scientific information on it. Meteorologically, there is very little "hard evidence" for the circumstances for such a phenomenon to occur. Thusly, it would be useful to see an expanded, if brief, investigation of the released videotapes.
ATS Discussion
UK Sun News Report


[Edited on 18-5-2004 by John bull 1]

it has not been debunked, if anything it has been proven that it could not have been balls of lightning. I have heard a ball of lightning as it passed right above my own room and then was visible through my window as it continued in its journey. I heard it before i saw it, and they are quite visible to the naked eye.

And how that de-bunks my debunking (Or, CNN/Sun debunking), I'm not quite sure.

Originally posted by mauskov
And how that de-bunks my debunking (Or, CNN/Sun debunking), I'm not quite sure.

because they weren't able to see it with the naked eye. they had to turn on the infared. two, I never knew balls of lightning fly in that type of formation. You truly have to be quite gullible to believe it was ELEVEN separate balls of lightinng in formation.

The electrical fields in ball lightning are (or would have been) attracted to the metal fuselage on the plane.

Secondly, infra-red just denotes that the light emitted is at a lower wavelength than humans are capable of seeing. This doesn't necessarily indicate that it could not be ball lightning.

Originally posted by mauskov
The electrical fields in ball lightning are (or would have been) attracted to the metal fuselage on the plane.

Secondly, infra-red just denotes that the light emitted is at a lower wavelength than humans are capable of seeing. This doesn't necessarily indicate that it could not be ball lightning.

Then I have a few question for you. Do you totally believe this article? Do you even believe in extraterestrial life? Dont you think its possible it could have been a UFO? Dont you think that they are telling people this story to prevent an people from getting nervous (whiich i think is obsurd)? I'm going to study the video a little bit but please answer this questions. Also one last question; are you afraid to believe? b/c i have encountered a few people who are truly afraid to believe.

Your debunking mauskov? Don't you mean your attempt to debunk?

Now show us that balls of lightning follow aircraft, changing direction, and that they can be invisible to the naked eye yet can be seen in infrared and be picked up in radar, not just your opinion, also post links please.

Originally posted by planetlegend
Then I have a few question for you. Do you totally believe this article?

Not necessarily. But I do think that people are too quick to spring on the chance - any chance - of there being life. I don't think the video was faked, but I don't think it's right to immediately take everything you see as the truth, either (that can apply to thinking the video was real, and with thinking it's ball lightning or any other explanation)

Do you even believe in extraterestrial life?

What does that have to do with anythng? I'm reporting the news. This video, to me, seems like bunk. That doesn't mean I don't believe in ETs. That's like saying "Well, I don't believe Jesus was the saviour, so therefore, I don't believe in god." You have poor logic.

Dont you think its possible it could have been a UFO? Dont you think that they are telling people this story to prevent an people from getting nervous (whiich i think is obsurd)?

I think that yes, it may be a UFO. But please recall that UFO is Unidentified Flying Object. That doesn't necessarily mean it is an alien spacecraft; it just means that it is not recogniseable.

Also one last question; are you afraid to believe? b/c i have encountered a few people who are truly afraid to believe.

Afraid to believe? What? No. I just think it's beneficial to go into anything with a healthy dose of skepticism; otherwise, one will believe everything and anything. Stop being a sponge, start being a filter.

Ball Lightning huh?!?!? Well, that is at least a better 'Answer from the Experts' then their typical 'Reflections of Venus' or 'Swamp Gas' excuse!!

I'm not going to claim that I have 'The Answer', or that any 'Theory' thus far should be trashed either. It's unfortunate that some so-called 'Experts' make the claim that they have the 'Answers' simply because 'People' are so actively searching for them. It's also unfortunate that 'People' accept whatever 'Answers' pop up, right or wrong, simply because they are hungry for them. It would be much better for 'People' to be patient and precise when looking for answers to questions that may not have any right away. The same goes for the 'Experts' too. What makes this difficult however are things like 'Pride, Ego, Status & Reputation', which have always been keeping Ignorance ahead of Knowledge.

Instead of 'Grabbing at Answers' like a bunch of helpless Bums for 'Chump Change', why not concentrate more on the investigative process and less on 'The Final Result'.

What are the 'Main Theories'?
1.) Ball Lightning
2.) ET Craft
3.) Military Secret Craft, Secret Weapon, etc.

What are the Details we have about this Event? Please correct me if I'm mistaken about these, I am not fully aware of all the info myself, as I've been away for a bit. Most of this is from memory about the original event.)
1.) Located and Tracked using IR Equipment.
2.) Human Visual Confirmation resulted in Nothing.
3.) IR Equipment used was 'Thermal Capable IR' (F.L.I.R)
4.) Movement of the objects said to display 'Intelligent' or 'Intentional/Specific' movements.

Just using that, Theory 1 'Ball Lightning' seems unlikely. Ball Lightning (aka. Fireballs) have been around and studied at least as long as Tesla, who had written about them many times and was supposedly quite good at creating them. I have personally never read of any case of Ball Lightning being 'Invisible' to the human eye, making Detail #2 a Problem. Unlike a bolt of lightning, Ball Lightning is known to literally float and move upon a gust of air, similar to a soap bubble. Now, had there been only one object instead of eleven that moved the way these objects did, that might be ok. However, even without the alleged 'Intelligent Movement', just the uniform movement of these objects within their respective groups seems unlikely for Ball Lightning that may be riding the wind.

How about Theory 2, ET Craft? Well, sure why not?? However, since we have no 'hard evidence' of ET or any Data to prove such a dynamic theory, it makes this just as likely as saying that it was 'Angels, Demons, Gods, Fairies, Sprites, Wizard Magick, etc.' If it's 'Little Green Men', then we might as well consider a 'Super Intelligent Strain of Large, Multi-Dimensional Fireflies, which exist in Pure Energy Form & at Frequency Levels below the Normal Visual Spectrum, Possibly only very Low IR."

Theory 3, Secret Military Crap?? Out of the three, I'd say this would be the most likely. Use of Stealth Tech. and Science unknown to the majority of the world is known to be true. As the Knowledge and Resources of the Military has grown in huge leaps over the years these types of events have equally increased. These could very well be the updated version of the Nazi Era Foo Fighters. Is it that hard to believe that after all these years, all the Trillions of Dollars, all the hours of experiments, and so forth, that the Military may have found a way of Cloaking an object using Electromagnetic Energy??

Well, this post has been long enough, too long for most to read probably, so I'll end it here. But those are just a few of my thoughts on the subject. I believe they are correct, but as I said earlier, I haven't kept up to speed with this topic, so feel free to comment as long as it's constructive of course.

I fail to see how ball lightning could possibly have a radar signature. Being as ball lighning is only an electrical charge contained in a finite area, there would be no physical structure to detect? Granted, I'm no expert, but I don't think ball lightning covers this one either.

"Hey man, I think these flying monkeys can actually see us!"

Originally posted by Q
I fail to see how ball lightning could possibly have a radar signature. Being as ball lighning is only an electrical charge contained in a finite area, there would be no physical structure to detect? Granted, I'm no expert, but I don't think ball lightning covers this one either.

"Hey man, I think these flying monkeys can actually see us!"

I'm not sure if you're talking about 'Radar' as in the 'IR Detector (FLIR)' or something else. As for the IR spectrum goes, if I remember correctly, there are basically 2 different types. There is the Low IR which is just below our Visible Spectrum (just below Red). This is used for stuff like Remote Controls and whatever. This is very common, in fact you probably have a digital camera or something that can pick up this range to some degree.

Then there is the Deep IR Range which is known as the Thermal range. This is lower than the above mentioned IR range. In this range what you're looking at is basically Heat Signatures which everything gives off to some degree. Even the energy released from Atoms or Particles have some degree of 'Heat Energy' by themselves to detect, if you were looking to detect it.

So Ball Lightning, while not being a physical thing, would, I believe, still give off IR Thermal Energy which would be detectable.

I'm not sure if that is what you meant or not though. I'm not sure if other methods besides IR was used to detect these things. If so, maybe someone else will explain what they were. I'm still researching this topic, especially the new info.

If i remember correctly in the Mexican video they say that it was also picked up by radar. i will have to check tomorrow, or some other member could.

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Muaddib]

yeah these people are just covering things up. it isnt ball lightning the sightings were actually on radar.

this happens all the time.

people just dont want the whole population of society becoming believers thats all.

[Edited on 21-5-2004 by topsecretombomb]

no matter how clear it becomes that this was not just ball lightning...


that idea will be accepted as an explanation (without an explanation) and the press will move on...

So far this story has evolved from U.S. stealth military aircraft with a special type of panel that can be seen with IR and that is working with homeland security that was mistaking to be E.T. by the Mexicans

No...

by the end of the year we will hear that these were guys in hot air balloons trying to go around the Earth in 80 days...



[Edited on 18-5-2004 by onlyinmydreams]

a page on ball lightning I found with a quick search...

notice how it doesn't correspond with what we've seen in the videos at all:

www.tbns.net...

Originally posted by mOjOm
I'm not sure if that is what you meant or not...

I meant actual radar imaging. I can understand not seeing anything visually, yet seeing them clearly on the FLIR.

With radar, there has to actually be physical substance there. Stealth tech works by deflecting the radar waves around the aircraft, so that it appears there was no interruption in the wave (beam, whatever you call it?). Since these objects (at least a couple of them) did show up on radar, then this infers that they indeed had a physical form. Perhaps they were all using some kind of stealth tech, which failed on those detected?

I'm also interested in what kind of signature the objects had. i.e. what size were they, and did they show speed/position relative to the aircraft comparable to that reported by the pilots?

Originally posted by Q

Originally posted by mOjOm
I'm not sure if that is what you meant or not...

I meant actual radar imaging. I can understand not seeing anything visually, yet seeing them clearly on the FLIR.

With radar, there has to actually be physical substance there. Stealth tech works by deflecting the radar waves around the aircraft, so that it appears there was no interruption in the wave (beam, whatever you call it?). Since these objects (at least a couple of them) did show up on radar, then this infers that they indeed had a physical form. Perhaps they were all using some kind of stealth tech, which failed on those detected?

I'm also interested in what kind of signature the objects had. i.e. what size were they, and did they show speed/position relative to the aircraft comparable to that reported by the pilots?

The difference is that the 'Heat Signature' or Energy Waves that are being detected aren't 'Reflected Energy Waves', they are 'Self Emitted Energy Waves'. It's not like an echo bouncing back off of the object. Nor is it like detecting the Reflected Light(Energy Wave) from say the sun or an external source, which is bouncing off the object. Both Matter and/or Energy will Emit Very Deep IR waves all by themselves, without any other source.

EDIT: Sorry, I think I misunderstood your last post. You aren't questioning FLIR. You are only questioning some other type of Radar, right???

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by mOjOm]

Exactly, mOjOm. Plain 'ol radar. The infared I can dig, but the fact that they showed on traditional radar (likely tech from several years back) piques my interest.

i.e. Only some of them showed on the radar, only some of the time. Like I said, almost as if there was stealth tech being used, but maybe malfunctioning?

Hmmm...this is kinda 'out there', but consider this: in all the talk about the Philadephia Experiment, the idea was to remove the object visually by electrically making a monster magnetic field...problem was, they tried it on a boat, which was tragically placed in a large body of water. Technically, this could be doable in an aircraft configuration without such problems? Of course, we could fit the same tech they used to fill the whole boat in a suitcase by now...anyway, like I said, it's pretty 'out there'. Still...if you had such a functional device on an aircraft, along with conventional stealth tech, it would more or less match what was seen.