Awakening II: Free Cities

I really like this thread! Its where ATS members should be at right now!
I think you've covered most grounds in your OP....I'm hoping this is going to be a popular thread with lots of input from other like minded ATS'ers as its something I've been interested in for quite a while....

www.thevenusproject.com...

Maybe the Venus Project isn't the finished article but it does make you think!

This can be achieved if the masses wake up and realise they have been slaves to the system, Its the only way we can defeat the elite and be free spirits!!

Peace!

ZZ

reply to post by HiAliens


S&F friend

Wonderful thread you put together, very comprehensive and well thought out..

I have already started growing my own food, it is very rewarding and fun, like the video said, it is not like work when you are doing something you love, and I have always loved getting my hands in Mother Earth's soil and seeing what beautiful things she will give me in return..

We truly could be living in a utopian society if we all start to put these ideas into action.

PEACE and LOVE...

Originally posted by Tryptych
Many times i think that the success rate of radical projects as this depends completely how it's promoted. Much stupider ideas go through simply because they're forced or promoted until sick in the stomach.

A lot of these more conservative types will view this as "just another hippie utopia", even if they know the truth. Have TPTB shown any sign of critical thinking in the past 10 years?

Ideas like this should be pushed HARD, because there will be a strong opposition.

EDIT: you do know about this?

www.thevenusproject.com...

I think the whole problem is - in the end - psychological:

Consumerism is the equation of personal happiness with consumption and the purchase of material possessions. The term is often associated with criticisms of consumption starting with Thorstein Veblen or, more recently by a movement called Enoughism. Veblen's subject of examination, the newly emergent middle class arising at the turn of the twentieth century, comes to full fruition by the end of the twentieth century through the process of globalization.[1]

[edit on 7/10/2009 by Tryptych]

Wow!!
Great minds think alike! (yours much better put)!
You posted yours as I wrote mine!

ZZ

reply to post by zerozero00


The Venus Project is interesting and gave me a few ideas but I don't have a problem with currency, that's where I differ from them. I think my ideas are more workable and grounded. Their ideas could be easily subverted by a selfish elite... I think that's why a lot of people had a problem with Zeitgeist Addendum.

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, I think a genuine free market is the way forward.

We've never had a true free market on Earth, not for the last few centuries.

reply to post by rainfall


Thanks dude/ette,
What kind of yields are you getting?

What kind of square footage do you think you need per person to be totally self-sufficient/

OP deserves 45 stars*100 but i gave you 3

Originally posted by HiAliens
reply to post by rainfall

 

Thanks dude/ette,
What kind of yields are you getting?

What kind of square footage do you think you need per person to be totally self-sufficient/

This is my first season growing vegetables so it has been sort of like an experiment.....I learned that you only get 1 ear of corn per stalk, lima beans grow in a bush, not vines...etc..

Cucumbers, summer squash, watermelon and pumkin are just starting to bare fruit and I can see that I have planted everything to close together. (over crowded)

The garden is probably 40 ft. by 7 ft.?

Not sure what footage per person to be self sufficient...I am still learning....and growing.

Originally posted by HiAliens
reply to post by zerozero00

 

The Venus Project is interesting and gave me a few ideas but I don't have a problem with currency, that's where I differ from them. I think my ideas are more workable and grounded. Their ideas could be easily subverted by a selfish elite... I think that's why a lot of people had a problem with Zeitgeist Addendum.

I'm a Ron Paul supporter, I think a genuine free market is the way forward.

We've never had a true free market on Earth, not for the last few centuries.

My biggest problem with how things are run today is "Money", "Tokens" and "Credit"....we need rid of the incentive to be "Corrupt"!
A very well know saying : "Money is the root of all evil"! could never be truer than in our lifetime!.....You have the basis for a great Ideal but were there is money there is corruption "Fact"!

"Money is the root of all evil"! could never be truer than in our lifetime!.....You have the basis for a great Ideal but were there is money there is corruption "Fact"!

You could quite happily live in the city I described with no money if you wanted to.

Corruption came before money, not the other way round.

If you didn't have money you'd have to have centralized control to run everything. That's too close to communism for my liking.

If you insisted on banning money people would just find something else to use as a benchmark. Cigarettes, corn, pine cones, whatever. So it makes sense to preempt that inevitable step with something that could be useful for the city.

Also, what if you wanted to go on holiday? It would be good to have something you could spend outside the city.

I think dialogue about these ideas is good but its important to look for a balanced middle-way between idealism and rationality.

Sounds like home to me....

i would love to raise my 19 mo old in a enviorment such as this.

Very well though out, all aspects touched..

sure there would be bumps along the way. But man, to escape all this rat race and get back to life as it should be....

ahhh one can dream..

I bust my butt 40hrs a week and for what...
a few paydays ago my check was $980 . (extra bonus)...

woohoooo.. big friggin deal, with the bills and everything, anyone got a clue of what i had left? A whole $15 bucks... which got me a 12pac of beer and some chips...

So basicaly out of that almost thousand dollar check, i got some beer and chips... is that realy worth the labor and time invested? sure i have bills paid, i have a roof over my head, i have food (some) in the fridge.. but come on, i am so sick of killing my self for nothing... I move about 30K of weight a night, hard physical labor, so my wife can start her business as a massage therapist, and my son can have everything he needs.. its a crapy job, but pays the bills, but thats just it... there has to be more to life than paying the bills, there has to be a reason to work, if things work out, i'm going back to school in the spring to be a EMT, but, thats if things work out.. if not.. who knows.. a nother 30 years of slave labor just to break even.

Love the idea, and great post, i am not much on the idea of relocating, but if i had the cash to invest, i'd be packing the car today.

reply to post by severdsoul


I understand, it sucks to work hard for no money. I did it for a long time.

You know, after the troubles die down, Montana would be an ideal place for one of these cities... remember, its not such a big deal.... it starts with a self-sufficient house...

Great post! as time progresses, humanity will need more thinkers such as yourself!

I really think that by the time a system like this is put in place...there shouldn't be any need for police, as there should be no need for crime...And if there is any crime it would eventually grind to a halt under these conditions.

And what to do about religion? Not abolish it in any way, but we have all the religious zealots and/or cultists that are so fond of their ways that they would rather die then change?
-As the wise Morpheus once eloquently put it..."You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."

reply to post by Griffo515


Thanks,

Religion? I was going to do a whole section on this but never bothered. Its just a city, so people can worship how they want...as long as the churches look cool, there's no problem.

Have you met these guys? These are temples, dug straight to rock:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1b96b9b856a0.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8d941f818183.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3d1d9030b0d6.jpg[/atsimg]

"Damanhur is an internationally renowned center for spiritual research. Situated in Valchiusella Valley, in the Alpine foothills of northern Italy, Damanhur is a Federation of Communities and Regions with over 800 citizens, a social and political structure, a Constitution, 40 economic activities, its own currency, schools and a daily paper." 1 They have a "university that attracts philosophical and spiritual students of all ages from all over the world. They describe themselves as the result of the practical application of a spiritual philosophy in harmony with the environment and our Planet."2

Originally posted by HiAliens

Originally posted by CoolBlackHole
Firstly, gorgeous OP

Originally posted by Traveler 291
The system. It would work.
Problem- Humanity.

It's not at all "humanity". Correction: "Problem - Earth's greedy criminal 'Elite'." THEY are thwarting this peaceful advancement and future.

The problem is not so much humanity, cos people will adapt to whatever system they're put into.

The elite are not helping, sure, but all of the technology mentioned here is public domain.

I disagree with you both, in a way.

I think the problem is the Elite's hold on the World;

And, by extention of their intense propaganda campaigning, the people themselves, misinformed, deliberately decieved, told conflicting answers, etcetera.

The people basically will never understand all this or care to look into it, since they are too busy and worried with the current rat race, while those who are in power and control have no intentions of changing jack # and losing all their riches and worth in the process. Free energy can never come with Oil Tycoons still roaming the Earth. The same holds true here. This change can never happen with the current world dictatorship and shadow governments' claws dug so deeply into the Earth.

Edit:

All that said this is a wonderful dream if you can stomach my usage of that term, and were it to become reality even on a small scale, it could provide much better lives for those involved and a much better partnership with the Earth itself. I am very interested in these ideas and I hope you continue to pursue them. I wish there were many more people like you, but unfortunately I think people with big ideas who know what they are talking about and know what to do are far outnumbered by those who have no idea but think they know what to do. That's how we got where we are now.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by BaronVonGodzilla]

Very nice idea's, and a wonderful post - would love to see something similar, we can certainly do it - but can we do it?

The current order needs to crumble - and some people need to go out and start.

Some of the problems I can see is natural resources are not divided up in a nice and fair geographical way. Also, mining and refining require massive capital - so you must have heavy industry.

To have heavy industry, I think you could place your cities on a circular hub, with a heavy industry at the center and a circular rail system with spokes into the center of the heavy industry part.

Because you will want metals and so on, you will need something to trade externally - food obviously won't do - so you need some manufacturing or mining if your in a good location for it.

Ah, yes. The return to Paradise Earth. The new carrot to dangle for those who will "qualify".

Who is the big organizer behind all this?

Well lets see. The religionists started bringing in nutrition and natural healing advisers in their evangelistic programs a few years ago. (While at the same time the top of the religion pyramid owns the hospitals and has their hands in Big Pharma.)

Don't think this idyllic life of rooftop greens and 20 hrs. work week will apply to everyone.

The people chosen will have to meet certain criteria to participate. Will they all go to live in a biosphere project to "replenish the earth" and the concept of the "new sustainability"?

I think the toxins in soil, air, and water have passed the tipping point. This Eden Project will have to be in some kind of more sterile environment to work. And of course, people will be more cooperative after about 80% of the population has been killed off.

Yes, Paradise Earth is the sales pitch. Sure everyone will buy it. But the cost? Well, got to get rid of these humans who are exhaling too much CO2. The thought of New Eden will sustain you in your decisions to cut off the poor and the uncooperative who will not sell their souls to join this new godly world. I bet it will still be run by the same factions we have now. They may wash their face, but ugly don't wash off.

All of what has been presented is wonderful ideas; but too little too late. The films are idyllic. Also it does mention there is not enough of this to go around.

Why continue to dream of far fetched idyllic futures? This is fantasy. And the only way it can be attained is to wipe the slate clean; kill off the suffering masses that cannot be fed or supported in this small start-up system.

Forget the future. We must deal with NOW. The US/UK has utterly destroyed countries and left them in toxic shambles. People have no food, no water, and continue to watch their children starve and die from illness right in front of their faces. Who is helping them? When will we realize that the institutions and corporations we put in charge of this and contributed to financially has skimmed the funds and left the poor to die?

Are we to turn our thoughts toward an idyllic future when others do not even have a present? Will you go along with the depopulation plan to have this Paradise on a platter? It won't come to fruition.

Moses set out for the Promised Land. For forty years he ate desert dust while dreaming of the promised milk and honey. When he finally reached the border of the Promised land as an old man....he was only allowed to look at it and see the beauty and abundance of it from across the way. Moses was never allowed to set foot into the Promised land after having been promised this and dedicating his life to it. Why? Because it had always been a deception; an evil Genie's trick. This mind game has been played over and over. This card has been played too many times by the same entity that brought you religion and politics as the solution and control mechanism.

Problem-reaction-solution.

There is nothing new under the sun. Past civilizations have had self sustaining eco systems in the past. These things have been done before. The knowledge has always been there. It looks idyllic in the beginning, but the hidden hand of control is always there. The harpies play a smooth tune. Pan plays a mesmerising song. Pan..panic to panacea.



This movement cannot be done with individual creative freedom. TPTB have too heavily regulated our freedoms to plant, grow, and sell. Even now the road side vegetable stands are being squeezed out by new laws. Backyard gardeners are no longer allowed to sell their produce. Very soon the laws will make it where you cannot grow your own food.

Everything that is being done is contrived to make people dependent on yet another New System. I say look deeper to see what entity is at the core of its organization.


Strings of regulations, hoops to jump through for the "qualified" who will sell their souls for the dream at the expense of denying others who will not "qualify"...the new "Age of Judgements"...where you may or may not be judged worthy to participate or have sustainance.



[edit on 7-10-2009 by Alethea]

What an informative and enlightening thread! Though most of us would be able to contribute in some way or another, I was wondering how would our elderly and disabled be cared for? Or would that be part of the responsibility of these communities? Think I answered my own question.

This thread is brilliant and something people have wanted or thought about for some time. I fear the elite would crush these plans as quickly as possible. How would people be able to keep these communities??? That would have to be dealt with in some way.

The solution is capitalism, whether with cash or barder. For the lazy, then they can starve and we need to be okay with that. I am. End the socialism.

Some fantastic ideas and information here. While the "Free City" utopia sounds wonderful, and plausible, in my opinion it's a bit far-fetched to expect such altruism from the spectrum of humanity. Greed and irrationality will, unfortunately, always be part of the human experience, even in a world of no-cost restaurants.

I did very much enjoy your section on small-scale, intensive agriculture, as well as the portion on self-sufficient home construction. Very nice work.