The Fundamentals of Fundamentalism

The Fundamentals of Fundamentalism

People slam Muslims for being 'fundmentalists'. Ahh but I see many many fundamentalists in all walks of life.. The term is often used to describe the more conservative and zealot like adherence to a belief set but it is also associated with extreme people that will be violent.
For the purpose of this thread, I want us to consider that not all fundamentalists are violent terrorists, we can accept that terrorists share fundamentalist beliefs, but many fundamentalists will not act in such a way. It is important to understand the social system that leads to fundamentalism and the diochotomies of it.

1 Fear as the precursor to all fundamentalist beliefs and is used to exert control over its subscribers of collective thought
2 Fundamentalism is a form of slavery

What leads a person and their collective to so strongly believe in a set of principles?
Why are their principles right, or wrong depending on the observer?
People fundamentally accept without question religion, racism, bigotry, nationalism, gender roles, philosophical, atheistic, political partisanship and so on.

Pejorative terms (nouns) such as Protestant, Catholic, Liberal etc are now accepted terms though their roots saw them as a collective with a 'fundamental' set of principles. Who we thought of fundamentalists in the past, are now "pillars" of the community.


Some examples of fundamental suppositions.
"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."
-Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue
Quoted in The News-Sentinel, Fort Wayne, Indiana. 8-16-93
www.bidstrup.com...

"In winning a nation to the gospel, the sword as well as the pen must be used." "Democracy is a heresy against God!"
-R.J. Outshone, Director of the Rutherford Institute,
which was the principal founder of Monica Lewinsky's
legal defense, and architect of "Christian Reconstructionist."
www.bidstrup.com...

* A native-born American who converted to Islam and helped fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, then proclaimed that "it is the duty of all Muslims to complete the march of jihad [holy war] until we reach America and liberate her."
www.jewishmag.com...


The Dalai Lama has agreed that there exist also extremists and fundamentalists in Buddhism, and the Nichen Buddhists believe all other Buddhists are heretics.

and so on....


Fear:
The role of fear of displacement from a collective is a number one factor thats leads to conforming to fundamentalism.
Different mechanisms are implemented in order to perpetuate fear through generations, The fear of eternal torture in hell is but one. Hell does not exist, the fear of it, is indeed the devils work. Keeping one enslaved to a supposition such as your actions in this life that can affect a wholly unknown future event is extraordinary control mechanism indeed.
Fear is perpetuated geration after generation by the control mechanism that salvation will not be achieved if absolute doctrinal conformity is not adhered to.
I've seen a thread recently where people fear Muslims will take over the world, and apparently they are taking over Australia as I type. Yet colonialism used religion as a political power force over people, and with colonialism over the centuries over 60million people have been killed. Here we saw that converting people to a religious 'fear' model allowing political and economic control over that society. Does the 'west' fear a repeat of that which they had already perpetrated?

Enslavement:
Enslavement of individuals for a collective propagates the hidden agenda of political and economic controls.
Fundamentalism creates devise sub groups of people. People are lets face it, all human, our differences are pretty much learned behaviors, yet we are taught, nay indoctrinated from birth, that the collective to which you belong is superior and another is therefore inferior.
Inferiority complexes are a result of lack of understanding of self and your place in this life. No one is better than anyone else.
The devisive nature of fundamentalism can only propogate with the enslavement of the ego and mind on the individual.

Lets look at this. Child is taught to worship Allah, practice prayers, conform to belief and image
A Jewish child learns the Torah and becomes part of the collective.
A Christian child is taught to pray and worship Jesus
A Buddhist child is taught about the wheel of life and the life of the Buddha.
A Libyan is taught to be a Libyan
A American is taught to be and American
A Nigerian is taught to be a Nigerian
An Italian is taught to be an Italian

Whilst most of us hold onto our indoctrination loosely more for comfort than fear. There are those who simply apply what they have been taught as a mechanism to perpetuate collective strength politically and economically.
You are NOT born a Christian, Muslim, Lybian,etc innately, you are human only. You are taught these belief systems and 'enslaved' into believing they are fundamentally correct in order to perpetuate the existence of your collective.
In psychology they have this little thing called 'projection' , A person can deny their own make-up of self and instead ascribe their own failings to the outside world and other collectives.. Projection is unknown by most of us yet is the fundamental mechanism by which we keep ourselves uninformed about ourselves.

As many are 'slaves' to the fears perpetuated in them because of the above reasons, and through media, their own collective and people in power, fundamentalism is being given wings to rise up and take over the human collective. There may be no red man with hooves and a pitchfork, but fear itself is the embodiment of 'satanic ' characteristics. And each time we wholehearted follow anything with a fundamental belief for the purpose of providing further fodder for collectives, I truly see the devils work. The very fact that we can all choose which premise to follow fundamentally, in itself uncovers the only absolutism I feel. That there is no god or religion better than another or that no party is better than another, that no sex/gender is better than another, no philosophical premise is better than another, etc.
Perhaps this is my fundamental belief system.

That said, I can see hurt and pain also as the reasons why people turn to or accept fundamentalist notions. The fear of exploring self is too much when you have comfort in collective.
I also hope that most people realise the very reason they are led to fundamental belief is to perpetuate one of two things. The underlying motive is usually not the principles of the belief system, rather political or economic reasons are being sated.
Fundamentalism is fulfilling requirement to keep the collective going, no matter the expense of individual freedom.

On a final note, people require to be 'part of' something, they question at heart why they are here and accept the answer given to them by others who know not why they are here either. LIVING is your function within the universe, understand that is your one and only role here, and live it with love and understanding for self and others.





[edit on 6-10-2009 by zazzafrazz]

reply to post by zazzafrazz

You are NOT born a Christian, Muslim, Lybian,etc innately, you are human only.

If only everyone could realize this, I believe the world would be a much happier place. Put aside what you have been taught and raised as, and use your own mind for once, and be not afraid of repercussions from your peers.

But sadly I can't see this happening anytime in the near future.

Maybe your thread will wake up a few to think for themselves.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6ef8d3f29591.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by tribewilder


Im not here to preach, I have asked some questions on how things work
Tried to understand self, and collective, and if a few other people do, then well and good.
I am not having a go at any organised religion, this is just a self postulating session on how to question your fundamental belief system and why you are part of it

reply to post by zazzafrazz


I thought I would share this simply because your speaking about it, im not up for a major debate because it does not really bother me. If someone wants to hear something thats different but theres not harm in mentioning in my opinion.

I am a christian and I use that term loosely because christianity has so many branches of different beliefs within the same belief I dont even bother with how I can categorise myself. It really does not matter what I am unless I give that meaning. I read the bible, accepted the offer christ gives and pray for guidance in my life. I never thought I would become a christian and I never thought my life would have changed as much as it has. After a year of reading from the bible after I made my own choice I chose to go to church around three months ago and still do not because of fear but because I enjoy hearing other peoples experiences, it strengthens my resolve at times as well because it is so easy to fall back into selfish ways if life is going tough at times etc. I also count myself lucky to have found what I consider to be the truth.

I made this choice after a lot of experiences within science, looking into conspiracies, reflection on life, groups I met in my career that had bad motives and observing the world we live in, in short of course.

If theres one thing though I took the long road and I can sum up what I am meaning with this...

You can have all the information with absolutely no wisdom but you can have all the wisdom without all of the information.

I am sure there are people who will understand what I am meaning.

Cheers!



S+F for asking a good set of questions

Edit to add: Look at an american dollar, it says "IN GOD WE TRUST", the god in the bible is spelt God not GOD. Just mentioning something.



[edit on 6-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by XXXN3O


Thanks for sharing XXX, and you did so with outt "mine is better than yours"

I made this choice after a lot of experiences within science, looking into conspiracies, reflection on life, groups I met in my career that had bad motives and observing the world we live in, in short of course.

You and I have infact gone through silmilar processes, just with different outcomes

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by XXXN3O

 

Thanks for sharing XXX, and you did so with outt "mine is better than yours"

I made this choice after a lot of experiences within science, looking into conspiracies, reflection on life, groups I met in my career that had bad motives and observing the world we live in, in short of course.

You and I have infact gone through silmilar processes, just with different outcomes

I believe that this is one of the most important if not the only real choice you have in life that is not effected by someone elses actions unless you let it be.

If people reflect on the things they learn and keep an open mind to what might be possible as well as seeking answers to their questions instead of burying them when it gets hard. I respect that entirely, its a shame that a lot of people however do not.

I know a lot of people who have even said to me that seeking answers is nothing more than human curiosity that needs to be buried in the back of your head and ignored. That was before I came to my choice in case anyone thinks I attack anyone who is not a christian

I couldnt live like that and I am glad I never, I have respect for anyone who does not ignore learning because thats why we are here.

This is just my opinion however.

You know, I graduated college with about 4 credits from being a double major in both religion and communications. I have read almost every major religious text that exists, and I find more and more each day that I am finding incredible pieces of scripture to read and relate to. Do you know why I never actually respond or bring about those specific quotes?

They are unideal and completely without context. Organized religion, as a whole is entirely dangerous.

Now I don't want to rant. I will basically only quote a very interesting theory that was presented to me today in my present state of mind. I will list this to "seem" more objective.. haha. I have nothing against Islam.. In fact, I think it has many ideals that are superior to most.

-Islam does specifically state that the PERSON, not the God, is completely within their religious right to kill for their ideal. No other religion does this so specifically. Christianity is close, though.

Now lets put this in perspective on a world-wide system of organized belief. It gets dangerous. Why in this setting? Here's why.. (Again I will work on a theory I heard today.)

-Muslims see their religion as the utopian structure of belief. Hindu is version 0.0, Judiaism is 1.0, Christianity is version 2.0, and Islam is the newest operating system.

-Why isn't our OS working as well as the ones before it? I believe my religion is the best, and seeing a foreign structure not only do better than us, but ABUSE us makes us realize that these people are our GOLIATH. We must take down the giant.

Even in the lives of American Arabs, they must feel guilt. They live lavashly when their religion specifically prohibits it.

Why is the middle east soooo much more likely to attack a country like America rather than India or China? Because we are their abusers. We love to impart our beliefs on other. Who else is sick of this?

It is the combination of both religion and radical ideals that causes this.

Here is what should scare more people in America: There are people all around you with a hair trigger ready to cause some sort of fright-enacted-revolution to kill not only terrorists, but their own people. Ready to fight their own government and haven't considered the collateral damage. Who is more radical? The weirdos in your own town or the poor people in the desert with no water?

I choose to believe neither. But the America I see today is completely corrupt. Both religiously and politically. Who else is the target of hate? What are we? idiots?

Sorry, Zazzy. Your OP was wonderful and I agree 100%, but it just isn't possible. We are at an ends with our own egos.. And I'm sure this will end in nothing more than catastrpohe.

I want it very much. I pray for it. I do not expect it. We just so happen to be a very weak species, even with the millions of years of evolution.

There is a God. He sparked the creation, but I'm sure he didn't want this. I'm sure he wants us all to stay positive though. Those who appreciate life will experience it for all time.

(sorry if I went completely off-topic. I always do)

Originally posted by XXXN3O

I believe that this is one of the most important if not the only real choice you have in life that is not effected by someone elses actions unless you let it be.

Any choice you make, including the choice described by you, will be determined by a set of social constructs, or conditionings. To suggest that any single choice may be chosen independently of external influences is to suggest that it's merely internally programmed, would it not?

So we have a Nature vs. Nurture dilemma.

Is your degree of fundamentalism biologically determined by genetic predispositions or is it conditioned through a combination of parental, social and environmental development of self?

If people reflect on the things they learn and keep an open mind to what might be possible as well as seeking answers to their questions instead of burying them when it gets hard.

Possibly. Unless fear has bound them. Or any emotion for that matter.

The real question is: Do you truly have a choice if you don't fully understand yourself?

So, if you don't realize that your emotions control you, you'll never ask why and you'll never fully understand, in which case you'll never truly have a chance to open your mind due to your own ignorance.

the only real choice you have in life that is not effected by someone elses actions

Unless an understanding is had then all you are is a reaction to your emotions and other peoples actions.

-Dev

I think this should be in conspiracies in religions forum.

What is one the tools most used by dictators or governments? It is FEAR.

Religion is one of the tools by the ruling elites to control the masses.

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a Biblical duty, we are called by God, to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

-Randall Terry, Founder of Operation Rescue

Yes, that is how they do it. Randall is an agent, or perhaps he isn't aware of it. I have read his books as a requirement in a Christian college.

This is a form of propaganda. This is how the dictators control.

I could go as far as to assert that the ruling elites of the world work together to "divide and conquer" the world by teaching groups of people that others are their enemies and are not worthy to get to know. They teach that others are "heathens" and are not worthy of their god's grace.

Separating people through religion works in the elite's favor.

WHY? To reduce the population, to maximize profit, to make the elites more powerful, etc. So they can enjoy luxuries like yachts, money, women, freedom???, and ah so many more.

A Jewish child learns the Torah and becomes part of the collective.
A Christian child is taught to pray and worship Jesus
A Buddhist child is taught about the wheel of life and the life of the Buddha.
A Libyan is taught to be a Libyan
A American is taught to be and American
A Nigerian is taught to be a Nigerian
An Italian is taught to be an Italian

Yes see? Divide and conquer.

By chance I watched Gaddafi's speech at UN on TV. I do not remember the exact quote but I'll try to rephrase. He basically said that the Arabs wanted nothing but peace, especially with Israel. It was the west who turned them against Israel.

You are NOT born a Christian, Muslim, Lybian,etc innately, you are human only. You are taught these belief systems and 'enslaved' into believing they are fundamentally correct in order to perpetuate the existence of your collective.

What is difficult to understand that the majority doesn't seem to understand this. If they do, they hide it very well.

I was born into a very strict fundamental Christian home. Yet, I have the understanding that ALL people are the same regardless of their religions or cultures.

It might be because I was born in America. I didn't have much to fear.

On a final note, people require to be 'part of' something, they question at heart why they are here and accept the answer given to them by others who know not why they are here either. LIVING is your function within the universe, understand that is your one and only role here, and live it with love and understanding for self and others.

I bet so many people think that way. But the question is, is one person brave enough to stand up against millions of people who live in fear?

I have so much to say I'll stop for now.

S+F for you zazz.

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

Is your degree of fundamentalism biologically determined by genetic predispositions or is it conditioned through a combination of parental, social and environmental development of self?

the latter, there is evidence certainly that behaviours are passed on genetically, perhaps the predispostion to go extreme or not is part of genetic makeup , but the need to remain in a social collective is perhaps stonger than biological. Or is it too bilogical? hmmm interesting point.

Great post devo


[edit on 6-10-2009 by zazzafrazz]

reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd


You really think that I have not faced arrogance yet in myself?

I used to spout empty words like that, the problem that comes is emotions that have no part in logic. Emotions can change a life experience in a fraction of a second.

The only way to ever find out if what you say is true would be to put a child in an empty box for a lifetime with no stimuli, thats impossible because it would die. Logically then, you cannot have life without stimuli. If what you said was true we could not have a life because every experience would inhibit another from happening. Thats the exact opposite of the reality we live in, given the fact that stimuli itself keeps you alive. That is what living is, choices with consequences, the choice is really yours unless you choose to be influenced. That itself is still a choice because just like stimuli keeps you alive, you can still choose to not participate and die.

Your only fooling yourself if you really believe what you have written.



[edit on 6-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by SantaClaus

Here is what should scare more people in America: There are people all around you with a hair trigger ready to cause some sort of fright-enacted-revolution to kill not only terrorists, but their own people. Ready to fight their own government and haven't considered the collateral damage. Who is more radical? The weirdos in your own town or the poor people in the desert with no water?

The identification of collective is a very strong desire. Each side feels the others slight, and yet they never question why they belong to a belief set and would they fight tooth and nail for it?

Regarding Uotpia and our inabilty to achieve it, Im glad you asked it, you have made me think about that, as I havent an answer yet to it.
Hmmm

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

Emotions can change a life experience in a fraction of a second.

The only way to ever find out if what you say is true would be to put a child in an empty box for a lifetime with no stimuli, thats impossible because it would die. Logically then, you cannot have life without stimuli. If what you said was true we could not have a life because every experience would inhibit another from happening. Thats the exact opposite of reality, given the fact that stimuli itself keeps you alive, FOOD.
[edit on 6-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

Ill let Devo answer you, but I can't see where he said that we should have no emotions and live in a box with no stimuli, I can see he said you are a reaction to your emotions. So he's sayng its important to UNDERSTAND them. Why you have them and how they cause reactions that form you.
I would agree with this premise.

reply to post by zazzafrazz


I did edit my post a little.

I am simply saying that everyone has free will to choose, if they are not aware of it, it is by ignorance or circumstance.

Someone who watches tv all day until they are 90 years old and feels that they have learnt nothing, is ignorant of the world outside because they choose to watch tv.

Someone who lived to 1 years old is not aware of anything, not even themselves yet. Thats innocence.

To say that everyone is an equation of their surroundings is only true if the person chooses to stay within those surroundings.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by DevolutionEvolvd

 

You really think that I have not faced arrogance yet in myself?

Calm down, XXXN30. I'm not in a position to judge your degree of arrogance.

I used to spout empty words like that, the problem that comes is emotions that have no part in logic. Emotions can change a life experience in a fraction of a second.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. Are you simply saying that emotions aren't logical and should play no part in decision making?

....you cannot have life without stimuli.

Can you make up your mind? You're contradicting yourself. First you say:

most important if not the only real choice you have in life that is not effected by someone elses actions

and then you refer to life only existing with stimuli.

That is what living is, choices with consequences, the choice is really yours unless you choose to be influenced.

The choice is yours if you truly understand yourself; otherwise, you're merely a pawn in a chess game and your decisions are made by your emotions.

I am simply saying that everyone has free will to choose, if they are not aware of it, it is by ignorance or circumstance.

How about: It is by conditioning and outside influences that ignorance embeds itself, thereby giving the illusion of "free will" and "choice."

To say that everyone is an equation of their surroundings is only true if the person chooses to stay within those surroundings.

Read my original post again and maybe you'll comprehend what I'm trying to say.

-Dev

reply to post by Deaf Alien

I could go as far as to assert that the ruling elites of the world work together to "divide and conquer" the world by teaching groups of people that others are their enemies and are not worthy to get to know. They teach that others are "heathens" and are not worthy of their god's grace.

THX for your reply DA

Its not just the ruling elite. Its us. We do it to our very selves. Our own children.
Its the human need to be in a collective that drives this.
And instead of choosing to collectively understand oursleves and each other, we choose to pepretuate our mini collectives.

reply to post by zazzafrazz



I gotta' say Zazzafrazz, you constantly offer stunning insight for ALL of us to consider here on ATS, and everywhere else in my humble opinion. Great post, star and flag.

I must agree with your reasoning in your postulate. It seems that either we as a whole (well most of us ) are too lazy or scared to step outside the collective OR we just do not know how yet, but that is what great threads like this one is for--To open peoples eyes.

Lets look at this. Child is taught to worship Allah, practice prayers, conform to belief and image
A Jewish child learns the Torah and becomes part of the collective.
A Christian child is taught to pray and worship Jesus
A Buddhist child is taught about the wheel of life and the life of the Buddha.
A Libyan is taught to be a Libyan
A American is taught to be and American
A Nigerian is taught to be a Nigerian
An Italian is taught to be an Italian

To me that and your ensuing statement were VERY powerful and so fundamentally true IMHO. We are all so bombarded starting at birth on how to act, how to believe, etc,etc, that we have never really looked at OURSELVES and what it means to be a human, rather than some stereotypical 'subtype' that is dependent on ethnicity, religion, country, sex, and monetary value. It is WAY PAST time to cut the crap and stop acting like a group of mindless cavemen, start thinking for ourselves and make our own choices in life and figure out by asking OURSELVES why we are here. Only then can we truly start to achieve our potential in my opinion.

So basically it can be summed up like this I believe:

Instead of looking to others to tell us where to go, we should be looking at ourselves. Reflect inward, look to the heart. We are all fundamentally the same, there is no need for these arbitrary boundaries, there is no need to conform to others, just be yourself, do what you want to do. Well that is my take anyways, lol. Thanks again for this GREAT thread Zazz.


[edit on 10/6/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by jkrog08


Just saw JK reply and that I never answered your kind post ....

We are all so bombarded starting at birth on how to act, how to believe, etc,etc, that we have never really looked at OURSELVES and what it means to be a human, rather than some stereotypical 'subtype' that is dependent on ethnicity, religion, country, sex, and monetary value.

See we still have his terrific thoughts to reflect on.

edit double post

[edit on 7-4-2010 by zazzafrazz]