We need strong mandate - Cameron

We need strong mandate - Cameron

news.bbc.co.uk

The Conservatives say they would pay for their £600m plan to "get Britain working" by cutting the incapacity benefit bill.

People on employment support allowance who are deemed fit to work would be put on the jobseeker's allowance, reducing their benefits by £25 a week.

All incapacity benefit claimants would be assessed to see if they could work.

Ministers have described the Tory plan to reduce the number of people on incapacity benefit as "callous".

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[edit on 10/5/2009 by semperfortis]

I am very sceptical of this, I also think this is a smokescreen and I will tell you why...

Firstly we are in a major recession/depression and there are few employment opportunities as it is without putting false claimants and potentially geniunely disabled people onto job seekers allowance.

But oh wait, I see Cameron is going to give the money saved to businesses or rather what he calls private training schemes.

Ok that sounds fair enough BUT (big but here in case you did not notice) was this whole idea not about cutting costs from the budget as opposed to spending the money saved on private companies??

I can understand that in the long run if this worked it might just allow more people but not all of them to gain employment but I cannot see how this funds any companies ability to employ skilled or non skilled workers?

To simply put my opinion, this just looks like another scam to take money away from citizens and put it into the pockets of private firms. Yes it might create jobs for the "private training firms" but its not going to create jobs for the disabled or non disabled claimants is it?

Not good.







news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 5-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

It is the usual Tory clap trap.

They will help those who already have the means to help themselves.

Less Incapacity Benefit/JSA will mean more crime as people find "other" means to pay the bills and food.

Im unemployed myself and i'm sick of being called all names under the sun because of it, I didnt chose to lose my past job 3 years ago (just as the recession was beginning to hit) and where I live its impossible to find work anywhere. These Governments just assume that work placements come out of thin air and that Employers chose unemployed "white" men over spoilty educated (no experience of working) class.

They chose to victimise us because we dont have a voice, anytime we DO make a stand were told were lazy because either the majority are disabled or dont have the experience/qualification/transportation to go to avaliable jobs. These people earning 12k who look down on JSA claimings really should take a month in experiencing what its just like to recieve 45 pounds a week.

And as a working individual, who studied many years in school, uni, post grad work and landed a decent job that he's had to work very hard at in order to keep it, resents his tax pounds paying for people who would rather leech of the system because they think the world "owes" them something.

I've not had a hard life, this is true. But I have worked hard at it. I don't see why I have to pay for slackers.

If one is legitimately out of work due to genuine illness, fair enough.

But I've seen enough people who simply "cheat" the system. Bout time something was done about it.

reply to post by noonebutme


I think the same as I see plenty of worthless slackers in society leeching off the taxpayers. However, there are also many more people out of work, or doing lesser low paid jobs because of either redundancy or their jobs being outsourced abroad.
The government, both Labour and the Conservatives seem to think they can just keep throwing money at big industry and bankers and all will be dandy again. Are they so incredibly stupid or do they actually know how retarded they sound but don't care?

How can we see any sort of recovery unless we see the jobs to go with it and boost the economy? Having Gordon Broon and his lackeys creating more and more local / national government jobs to reduce the unemployment numbers doesn't quite work!

Both parties talk of creating thousands of new jobs, but never say what these jobs are and avoid all questions about it.

Unless we get the jobs back here, making things that people want or need, then we will just see things slump further.

reply to post by noonebutme


Well I do have to say to you that I agree that people who cheat a system should not be allowed to reap any benefits.

I do have to say this however, I have a father who has had 4 slipped disks and 3 hernias due to an accident that should not have happened if health and safety procedures were followed by his employer over a decade ago. He has been for 5 ops with no success and the end result has left him in constant agony, if hes not in agony he can hardly speak due to the tablets he has to take making him so drowsy, he can drive for small amounts of time, walk short distances and speak ok at times if hes lucky.

I personally caught a member of the local council spying on his property from a vehicle parked outside his home after he asked me to go over to a car that had been parked outside his home everyday. As a result my father is now out of his mind with paranoia, he no longer goes out the house, wont answer the phone and is panicking over losing the benefits that enable him to live in a his home.

Do you think this is a reasonable approach to policies?

Seems that the attitude of the public is just as bad with this whole guilty until proven innocent nonsense.

I am an employed member of society and am very lucky to have a job right now, just in case you think I am one of these so called benefit cheating slackers.

Dont get me wrong there are some but I highly doubt it is as bad as the media would have you believe. It took my father 3 years to start getting any benefits for his injury, he had to prove his injury with scan results, physiotherapy, operations, numerous interviews, a tribunal and after going through all the hell of it, he now has council spies watching him at his home watching to see if he lifts a damned tesco bag into his house.
Some people seem to think its a case of walking up and saying, "hey ive got a sore leg, give me money pal" not the case.
There are different scenarios as well but im just showing one genuine example that is shocking in my opinion.

Quite a lot of people end up losing everything including there homes when trying to get a genuine claim for a health and safety related accident because it takes so long to take a business to a tribunal. If anything it should be improved both ways, ie faster for genuine and faster at getting non genuine people off. Right now though I am a little sceptical that millions of people would go through all the agonising process of getting benefits rather than job seeking if they are in good health but of course some do so.

Great country we have here.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by XXXN3O]

We need to have a balance here. I agree with both of you. Let the genuine disabled get help. Also let the leeches that are playing the system, who are not genuine diabled people, have their benefits withrawn.

this just makes no sense.

at the moment, you have to be assessed by a qualified healthcare professional in order to receive incapacity benefits. details he wants a secound opinion on everybody to save an occasional £25, seems an expensive waste of time unless it's designed as an empty electioneering promice.

how long is it going to take him to make back one dubious expense claim?

it's as ridiculous as his pledge to hold a referendum on the lisbon treaty as long as it's impossible to implement the lisbon treaty because everyone hasn't ratified it.

all he wants to do is rile up the ignorant, reactionary middle class twats who would rather pay vast sums to support a useless banking class than a pittance to support a moderately useful underclass.

you get the government you deserve.

Originally posted by ROBL240
Less Incapacity Benefit/JSA will mean more crime as people find "other" means to pay the bills and food.

most crimes are not crimes of "desperation" in a relatively rich country like the UK, no one (apart from maybe a few unfortunate homeless souls) are stealing food and clothing, like some sort of Dickensian honour theft- most crime is committed because of greed for non essential items, or as a result of heavy drinking or to fund a drug habit

reply to post by XXXN3O


I agree with you, especially regarding your father.

He's had an accident at work - one that should not have happened - and has, from the sounds of it cost him his working career.

It sounds like he's in constant, near debilitating pain which no doubt affects every aspect of his life, from physical to mental and psychological.

And he is one of the people who *should* be on benefits and be taken care of. I have no qualms with that. I too, know a few people who themselves are injured on benefits or have family members in the same condition(s). I fully agree that they should be looked after.

For me, it's the people who are seen to be ill and injured, but somehow hang out at Mc D's every day, or are driving their chavved out Punto's about town, or able to spend every waking moment in the pub. Many of the seekers in my area are wearing full Nike shell suits, top notch trainers, toffed up with gold (Argos specials, no doubt!) and iPhones, etc.

Where do they get this money from to pay for these indulgences? Hell, I *have* a job but I can't spend my money as frivolously as some of these benefit seekers do.

*That's* who I have issues with. Those that can work, but choose not to and to leech off the rest of us. And sadly, this country seems to be allowing more and more of that to happen. Especially down my way (south east).

Apologies if it sounded like I was generalising in my previous post, as that was not the intention.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by noonebutme]

I also have to say I have had 9 operations during my life, occasionally suffer ill health and yet deemed healthy enough NOT to warrant Incapacity benefit. Yet across the road the neighbour lives in his 270,000 pound house with 3x cars, a boat, caravan, 40' TV, kids and all paid for by incapacity benefit..theres nothing wrong with the guy either, he just doesnt like working because it "stresses him out" a bit. The system is a complete joke.

I am on disability living allowance and incapacity benefit. I would much rather be earning as I have done ever since I was 16. Unfortunately my illness means I can no longer work. I would rather not be living with my parents at the age of 30 after being an independent and healthy individual.

I and many others deserve this meager amount we receive from the government to survive on. I worry about these assessments and I'm sure many others who are genuinely ill, also worry about having to be assessed by someone to see if we are fit to work. To look at me. I look like I'm a fit and healthy individual, but, I have been living with a malignant brain tumour. for the last 7 years. the effects are not obvious to an assessment.

isn't it always the goverment wanting to help their rich friends at us poor peoples expense. and jobs are not that easy to get in town i live in . maybe 10 out of 300 graduatees from last years senior class at local high school have found work. no work means no unemployment and no check most are living with parents wondering what comes next. a few have turned to c rime. i believe its time the english took back there country from the goverment

Hmmm, if people who are "fit" to work cannot even find a job that pays the bills, then what the hell is the point of reassessing people on incapacity and (most likely) telling them they are able to work? Then what? You increase the competition, wages stay low and rights are forgotten about because everyone is extremely desperate to hold a job down.
i AM "employed" but this month i'll be claiming job seekers because my employer has made me work 6hrs a week for the past month. Its ridiculous.
I think who wins this election has already been decided between TPTB regardless of the voter, however, i WILL be voting for labour because i know they aren’t the perfect party but they'll do a damn sight better for us working class during these uneasy times.

I think the older generation need to remember what those bloody money thirsty conservatives did last time they had power - Poll tax anyone? Taking money from the system to pay for the education of our "future rulers" Single parents being told to work and now, years later, being blamed for their children being tear-a-ways? And while some of you sit here and scoff about the “cheats” who are lazy and don’t want to do anything except “live off your tax” why don’t we remind ourselves of what happened earlier THIS year? Does MPs expenses ring any bells? They ripped the system off for THOUSANDS per YEAR. £45 a week clocks up to a mere £2340. Ands that’s not to pay for your second house or for your child to have a bit of extra pocket money for uni.
Lets not go back to that. Lets give David and his oxford buddies the boot back to his well off lifestyle. None of them would survive signing on for 6th months and i'll be damned if they survive an A4E course!

reply to post by XXXN3O


So, how have they assessed that those people are fit for work? Oh, that's right, they haven't.

How can they suggest they'll save so much money when they don't even know the numbers of people they'll be able to get off of incapacity benefit in the first place?

I'll tell you what, I won't be voting. I already decided that not one of the parties is going to act for the benefit of this country. They're all as corrupt as each other and they all deserve to be thrown off Dover cliffs.

Mark my words, as soon as they're in power (whoever it is, doesn't matter) there'll be further corruption in the form of benefits for the already wealthy. They'll tread on the citizens to support their business buddies and their own investments.

When a party arises of the people, truly people, without business deals, investments and without being from a wealthy background, then I might listen. Until then, all of these elitist plums can go swivel.

reply to post by detachedindividual

Hi mate, yeah I`ve reached the same place as you have.
I mistrust anything any party has to say. There is no difference in the parties.
Do people honestly think Bullshi**er Brown cares a hoot about the Labour party, NO, because as always the labour goalposts have been shifted. They called the last shift `New labour` and in the future, after everyone is fed up with the Conservatives ( oh yes it`s already decided that the Cons will win this next `election`) labour will probably call themselves `The Ultimate Labour`.
Boll*cks to em all. They work for the same oppressive masters.

Oh and let me also say, I also used to get really peeved at benefit fraud,
you know what, now I dont care, let them get whatever they can out of this government monstrosity. If the Govt can find hundreds of billions to save the banking thieves, meanwhile employing countless private agencies to do things like issuing of fines, debt collection and enforcing a multitude of regulations and bogus schemes, and not to mention the extortionate amounts of money us taxpayers cough up from our paycheques.
There are so many genuinely sick people that must jump thru pathetic and non-sensical loops in order to satisfy the Social Services
Just so fed up with this charade. OMG what about those pensioners that have been shafted with all the corporate changes - designed to fleece em.

why dont they find jobs for the millions of unemployed first before attacking the disabled for being unable to work..

Seems like a good idea in theory, i hate paying taxes so that the couple who live across the street,who are both supposed to be disabled,can live the life of reilly!
They have two cars,and indeed two houses,because they have more children than can be acommodated in one house!

But in reality,all Cameron has done is guarantee 2.6 million votes for labour!

Clever bunch those politicians,eh?

[edit on 5-10-2009 by scobro]

I work for DWP and on soul & conscience I'll damn well refuse to haul a cancer patient in for an interview to assess their chances of employment. That's just too far. And there's plenty folk with mental disorders too who'll never ever work ... and I'll refuse to bring them in too. And there's plenty staff who feel the same.

We won't make a big drama about it, of course. We'll just shuffle those particular claims back to the bottom of the pile out of simple human compassion.

That being said ... there are families, not many but a hard core, where benefit dependency has been handed down from grandfather, to father to son ... and staff in the old style "DSS" offices knew exactly who they were. But that local knowledge has evaporated with the closure of so many offices and the resignation/redundancy of tens of thousands of staff.

I can't see these savings happening. Get them off Incap/ESA and onto Jobseeker's ... give most a couple of months and they'll simply go back onto Incap/ESA again ... and with all the admin involved in changing claims around, dealing with appeals etc the poor staff will be run into the ground. And we already are ... I know that we never get much sympathy from the public, unlike the much lauded teachers, policemen & nurses (arentya sick of them ?) ... but we do a damn difficult job the best we can.

Last few weeks I've had team members bursting into tears and being sent home because of the sheer volume of work & the dogs abuse the public dish out. It's crap.

These tory proposals aren't going to help at all. If they're brought in they'd better ensure the protective glass screens get reintroduced because I for one won't be working with the public until they are.