Can America Be Salvaged?

Hi ATS,

There has been a growing amount of unrest in Our once great nation. People are feeling the burn from the proverbial fire; which We've all seen the smoke from for a good while.

The Mainstream Media is good for nothing usually, other than to compare notes as to their lies.

Here's a few quick words from a man who has been, and continues to be immortalized through his words; Mark Twain,"In the beginning of a change the PATRIOT is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot" (1904)"

I found this very poignant, powerful, and strong worded article here: counterpunch.org... It was written by Professor David Michael Green. I will go through the highlights of the article, and strongly reading it all. I know it will hurt many of Your feelings, but I am spurred on by Mark Twain's words, I must share it with You.

I really don’t know what to say anymore, about a country in which proposing a new and better version of corporate-plunder masquerading as national healthcare gets you burned in effigy for being a socialist stooge by gun-toting angry mobs.

Really can You disagree with the above?? The Health care debate is nothing more than another proverbial nail in the coffin. Why aren't they protesting the HUGE numbers of other vessels being used in manner's that do nothing, but destroy freedoms?

I really don’t know what to say anymore, about a country in which the same people who hate you for being a socialist simultaneously hate you for being a fascist.

What US President, or Politician hasn't been a fascist, or even a Bolshevik?

I really don’t know what to say anymore, about a country in which angry mobs of supposed anti-socialist demonstrators scream at their congressional representatives to “keep your government hands off my Medicare”.

In Sanchoize; the man is saying take a good look around; We've been socialists for a long time.

I really don’t know what to say anymore, about a country in which claims that the government is going to start killing off seniors are taken seriously by tens of millions of people.

Why aren't We raising hell in regards to how the Govt. "knows" so many of us are going to die from as of yet unseen Swine Flu Virus; now that is a question!!!

I really don’t know what to say anymore, about a country in which people are all worked up about government czars, but sat silently while the Bush administration destroyed the Bill of Rights and used a thousand signing statements to write Congress out of the Constitution.

Forget the Bush Admin. How about the entire 20th century?

I really don’t know what to say anymore, about a country in which deficits have all of a sudden become the source of enormous anger among people who said nothing about them previously, as the tax cuts for the wealthy, off-budget wars based on lies, and unfunded prescription drug Big Pharma giveaway transmogrified the biggest surplus in American history into the biggest deficit ever.

Any takers on explaining this one?

I really don’t know what to say anymore, about a country in which politicians can rant incessantly about other peoples’ sexual morality, get caught screwing prostitutes, and then still be reelected to the highest ranks of government by trashing the president.

Ouch, ain't this one the truth!!! Oh, but he left out the part where the politician got elected on family values, and Christianity, and the prostitute was a DUDE!

I could go on and on, but what would be the point? The positions of so many Americans on so many policy questions are truly inane – yes, for sure. I wish that was all that concerned me. But it all goes so much deeper than that.

He's right, for the most part the People have been led completely astray. It like complaining, or listening to BFI, or a municipality tell You, or fine You for littering; when in fact the major sea port cities still dump trash into the environment.

Over and over again, the people I see on my television screen acting absolutely and incoherently stupid in their senseless rage seem to be little more than fat, white, Southern, sixty-something racist good ol’ boys.

Well past their sell-by dates, they’ve of course gotten tremendous help cranking it up again. That’s no surprise. I’m not sure these crackers are smart enough to even be stupid without coaching. As Lyndon Johnson used to say: “Couldn’t pour piss out of a boot if the instructions were written on the heel”. Lucky for them, those marching orders come from a host of politicians and media whores who, in an even moderately just world, would receive a wee taste of Abu Ghraib in repayment for the reckless destructiveness they’ve fomented upon the always precarious edifice of liberal democracy. There’s special place in Hell reserved for these shouters of “Fire!” in crowded theaters, these bloodsucking bottom-feeders, especially since they are being paid so handsomely for their faithful service as prolocutors for predators.

Where's young America, and why aren't You standing up, and screaming Your heads off like in by gone eras??? WHERE??

And while the O’Reillys and the Reagans of our time have joined forces to turn “the counsels of impatience and hatred” into an entire political party and more, they are, of course, mere conscious tools of the Big Green Greed that ultimately drives the system. They know they are prostitutes, but the money’s good. And so is the fame and adulation – no small thing for these sorry critters. Look at the Becks and Limbaughs and Gingriches of this country. Were there ever people in this world with so much self-esteem ground to be made up from the transparent ostracization of their younger days? Were there ever individuals so obviously motivated by retribution against everyone who treated them like the jerks they were in their formative years? Was there ever a walking warning sign more brightly flashing about the costs to society of youthful bullying? I’m sorry Glenn, I’m sorry Rush, I’m sorry Newt. I know when you were younger you were pudgy fast-talking smart-ass petulant pricks who made up in wedgies from bigger guys what you never got in attention from attractive women. But isn’t about time you stopped taking it out on America? I’m sorry you got your ass kicked on a weekly basis, but I didn’t do it.

He asks some necessary questions here, or better yet raises some excellent questions.... Considering now that Fox Noise is the "Official Patriot Movement", why they diverted away from most everything the grassroots movement has been challenging for decades??? Remember Mark Twains words above; these guys in the above quotes fall somewhere in the range of "TIMID" according to Twain. Yet, the big difference is they aren't just that, but also subversives. I know, I know, I know someone will write in here, and tell me how much good Beck is doing, and my response to that is "fine, but always use Your innate Critical Thinking Skills to form Your own opinion!"

Above all, what is wrong with this country (and what therefore inevitably becomes the world’s problem too – just ask the people of Iraq), is not so much the vicious thugs who would just as soon vacuum it free of any piece of wealth they can get into their hands as take their next breath. Nor is it the existentially petrified Confederate Crackers for Jesus who find that hate and violence is a pretty decent emollient to mitigate for the moment their otherwise completely debilitating fears. That stuff always happens, though admittedly not often quite like this. What’s really wrong is the near total absence of prominent political figures willing to sacrifice much of anything to protect their country from these depredations. It’s been so long now that I’ve forgotten for sure, but didn’t they used to call that patriotism?

As Mark Twain said, it might take being hated, and scorned, but as the Professor David Michael Green wrote; a Patriot is what We all need to be should We want to salvage Our country

Peace, and Vigilance,

Sancho

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

Well thought out and put into words, Sancho!
It is stupifiying what we let happen to our country,
all while blaming someone else!
We let big time greed and corruption take over ages ago!
Now this is all we know. Its ingrained in us. It IS us.

Can it be salvaged? Good question.
I have my opinion but the jury's probably still out...
How can we change if we dont want to?
How can we know we want something that we've never had?
And would we even be satisfied with it, if we had it?
How can this happen if we dont even realize it HAS TO?
Definately would take a miracle! S&F!

reply to post by dodadoom

Can it be salvaged? Good question. I have my opinion but the jury's probably still out...

My opinion is absolutely, but it'll take real Patriots who aren't afraid to Stand Up, and Speak Out. Really look at what everything has been turned into; what about all the other issues. What about the Patriot Act??? Yes, it can, but it's gonna take hurting People's 'feelers', and being real Patriot

How can we change if we dont want to?

I think the Elite already have this worked out; they call it eugenics

How can we know we want something that we've never had?

Ah, it's unfolding before everyone's eyes; it's the very fact We are so knowingly not happy with what is going on currently. There must be something better out there. This is the first step in learning what is possible, and not letting anyone hijack the learning curve.

And would we even be satisfied with it, if we had it?

Are We happy now??? No, most American's are miserable, and beginning to get angry; We must remain true to learning Critical Thinking Skills.

How can this happen if we dont even realize it HAS TO?

People are realizing it everyday. Everyday Peoples lives are being ruined by the Elite. We are being given a wasteland; while the Elite reward their minions with large bonuses for damning the People.

Things will change, and I know at some point for the better; the interim is what I am concerned with. The more People start towing the real line of Liberty the less will have to learn the hard way. The hard way is through death, and famine; loosing too many friends, and family before standing up.

Great thread Sancho. I wish I could agree with you in saying America can be salvaged but I really, really don't think so.

This thread even says itl- sorry but it's over

[edit on 21-9-2009 by Sundancer]

Every generation since the birth of our nation has cried foul against our government. Each one had a group who thought it was a corrupt evil machine.

The only differance between us and the past generations is technology. We can communicate with people all over the Country and the world faster.

I don't understand the thought process some have when they think we are living under a government that is changing. Its the same as the one we had 200 years ago.

But lets say we change the way America is ran, I promise you 10 years after we change whatever it is we are suppose to change there will be those who will want to change it again, because they think it is corrupt.

Maybe they will talk about doing it on ATS.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


NO.

America as we have known it will not be salvaged.

It is to be an object lesson . . . that even the best form of government . . .

of the people for the people, by the people . . .

apart from God . . . will turn corrupt, deadly, power mongering etc. like all the other forms.

The human critter is polluted inside . . . greed, power mongering, raging anger, selfishness, arrogance, me-first-last-always-ism, abuse of children, shredding of marriage . . . perverse sexualities propagandized as "rights" . . . how can it be a "right" to bugger toddlers just because one is a ruling elite who views the toddlers as property???

The nation will be disciplined within a hair's breadth of utter and total destruction. No institution will be untouched. Virtually no geography will be untouched. Probably none will be untouched.

No people group will be untouched.

Evil doers of every kind will be removed from the planet and from the USA.

The USA will be split down the middle with the Gulf of Mexico reaching the Great Lake above Chicago.

Anarchy will reign for an extended time with foreign troops in control of large chunks of geography for an extended time.

Mercifully, the worst will be 3.5-7 years.

It will, however, be the worst the world has ever known or ever will know.

The 'fear of God' will be instructive for many and ignored by many who'd rather defiantly rage in their rebellion though it will cost them enormously dearly.

Aborted babies will be eaten by desperate famine victims. Relatives will help dying loved ones die sooner so they can have a meal.

No, the USA will NOT be redeemed in anything near it's present form or structure.

I say that without any pleasure.

Yet, what comes out after literal Armageddon . . . will be infinitely better.

reply to post by Sundancer


Ouch, Ouch, I guess You are out of the States like myself. I have hope, and will be going back to help when it is necessary, but I am getting an awful lot of u2u's from ATSer's asking me where in Mexico, or Central America is safe to go....... I find it kinda sad that many are jumping ship. I cannot blame them as it is the intelligent thing to do when a giant ship is sinking; otherwise it suck You down with it............ I don't know where that leaves my silly butt talking about, and gonna go back..

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones



There are around 310 million (give or take a million) people in the US.

How many do you call "many" that is jumping ship?

I believe that the country can be salvaged, but it needs alot of work and change for the better not for the worse. Part of the problem is that we have become a nation of consumers. We watch too much TV, and have lacked in alot of areas. If this country is going to be saved, it needs to be by the people standing up and taking one step at a time. There are several areas that need to be addressed readily. 1) Education. I thought the no child left behind bit that Bush did was a bad idea, not because that it would not focus on the children, but all it teaches them is to take a test and not be ready for the real world. Children have a lot of potential, but need to be shown how to be productive, as well as, learn the lessons for such. Too many of the youth do not understand or just don't care, and that needs to be changed. 2) We need to stop being so PC, having one set of laws for everyone, instead of laws that protect one group or another. The worst one that I can think of was the one that forced equal opportunity, where a person could claim minority status and not have to work hard for opportunity. I have heard from those minorities where the law did not work. 3) Large businesses need to move back into the country to make it a country that produces. There needs to be rewards for the worker to stays with a company, not punishes them for being in one position for too long. 4) Working in the government should be a punishment, not a reward. Too many politicians covet being in authority, rather than dread it. When the public offices were dreaded, the politicians were there for the people did the time and then got out as fast as possible never to seek re-election. We need more people like JFK, who had the vision and drive, and Thomas Jefferson who had the beliefe and foresight to see things for the future.

reply to post by BO XIAN


I know the line of thought Your going down with what You wrote. I cannot disagree with You, and have heard many prophetic things similar to this as happening around 2012. I donno myself; to me I think the future remains unwritten, and is only determined by overall trends.

What You write about borders on what I believe; which is the Earth is alive, and a sentient being. Considering that if We are able to bring in the line without the need for cataclysm, then that would be better all the way around since We all are part of the Earth, but should We continue down this slippery slope of destruction, then the Earth would have no choice, but to shake us off..... One way, or another.

reply to post by jd140


I can tell You that many Central American countries are, and have been preparing for an ever increasing amount of expats from the World over. I have a buddy that works in a law firm that practices International Law, and helps People relocate. I guess Guatemala alone is expecting over 2 million People in the next year, or so.

We could work off small percentages to figure out just how many are from the USA, but it would be speculation. My buddies firm doesn't publish those numbers, and the US Govt. tells everyone how scary it is out of the States. So, regretfully I have no proof, or what You would want

America can only be salvaged if it realizes some home truths. America will learn these things, possibly the hard way, but one way or another.

Below are few such things people need to wake up to -- a by no means exhaustive list:

1) Time to ditch left-versus-right because both parties are two heads of the same monster. It's a great parlor game, a punch-and-judy show to keep the Average American rooting and hooting like a drunken sports loon for "his team." Americans have to look deeper and question the real men behind the curtain in a way that transcends partisan politics.

Rather than "Bush this" or "Obama that," people need to start paying attentions to SYSTEMS and RELATIONSHIPS and the larger tectonic forces that actually make politics and the economy. The need to start educating themselves about the Fed, the big banks, the military-industrial complex, agribusiness, oil and fuel, the way lobbiests work Washington, etc.

2) We are broke and drifting on the tattered remains of our reputation. We need to stop borrowing and start creating, doing, and making for ourselves. Instead of sending jobs overseas and then borrowing money to buy the same items that were made by what amounts to near-slave labor on the other side of the globe, we need to make the items here and pay people a decent enough wage that they can afford to buy them. Henry Ford understood that; today'S CEOs have forgotten -- or more likely, just don't care.

3) The fact that the government is broke means that things will increasingly have to be cut. Let's as citizens make sure that what gets cut first is the number of politicians, their cushy pensions and retirement "consulting" gigs, etc.

4) While I believe capitalism itself will remain in some form for quite some time, hypercapialism is dead. I define hypercaptalism as debt-based shenanagans that benefit several hundred people at most with enormous sums of money they couldn't possibly spend in lifetimes, while increasingly squeezing the people dry.

5) People have to learn to educate themselves. Turn off the *****g TV and READ A BOOK or an informative website. Put a little effort in to really learn what is going on.

6) People, in the end, need to recognize that we DO have power to effect change because we are still strong, hard-work, determined, and ambitious people\.

7)The highest law in the land is the bill of rights. If you find soldiers or other officials trying to abuse their power in ways that goes against the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, then THEY are the lawbreakers, not you.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


I was just responding to you saying "many are jumping ship".

That implies that they are leaving right now. No worries though, you have clarified that you didn't mean what you said. You meant they are going to leave later and that you don't know how many(if any) is coming from the US.

Could you tell me what is so great about Central America that Guatemala alone is expecting over 2 million People in the next year, or so.?

If people all over the world is clamoring to get there then what global event is going to take place that is going to exclude Central America?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I really would like to know the questions I have asked.

reply to post by sdcigarpig


I can most definitely tell from Your response You care, and that is good. I thought each point You addressed was absolutely correct; cut right to the core of many issues.

Should You ever be President, Ruler, Ceasar, or King You'd do a fine job; no doubt, but the biggest question I have is also stated in the OP. It is obvious Our country was hijacked, and is being steered by robber barons toward what they want. The ole' professor with as blunt, and straight forward as he was, which I did find funny, made it clear We need Patriots.

Not all People can Identify the problems as well as You, but it seems We need those People willing to stand up, being hated, and scorned the whole way for bringing the blinding light of truth. We need those People who are Patriots in their Hearts to stand up, and shout out.

reply to post by silent thunder

3) The fact that the government is broke means that things will increasingly have to be cut. Let's as citizens make sure that what gets cut first is the number of politicians, their cushy pensions and retirement "consulting" gigs, etc.

Here, here for that one There are around 545 total jerk offs making Our lives a living hell. It doesn't have to be this way, and there aren't many of them.

I agree a 100% about forgetting the left rigth paradigm.......... Kinda reminds me of the "Wizard of Oz"; that is what We have going on after all.

I to see so much potential in the American People, but they must work for it. They must recognize the things like You, and others have said; they must embrace it. Currently, I don't see it, and it really bothers me. I've had People tell me that my fellow country People just won't get it, and that always made me angry, but so far what I was told is holding true

I agree that People need to learn their Bill Of Rights, and they also need to learn where those come from. They come from the very Cosmic design laid out before all of us daily in Nature. The Bill Of Rights simply enumerated what is self evident daily when looking at any natural system in Nature.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones

Star and Flag of course my friend.

But the sad fact is we did not hang the crooks in 1929, and ppl
do not have the cojones for it now.

We are going down for the count, and the game is nearly over.

This 10 minute video sums up why we are screwed

They have all the angles covered, and if we revolt the man in the
blue turban shows up.

You might be thinking anti christ about now, but I mean the UN troops.

Though of course to those on the receiving end, the difference will
be minimal.

Good Luck to you all !

reply to post by jd140

Could you tell me what is so great about Central America that Guatemala alone is expecting over 2 million People in the next year, or so.?

A very simple answer is Economic Freedom. Look at current events Switzerland, lichenstein, and the Caymen Islands are all folding under pressure from the traditional G8 countries, but not Central America, and actually that includes South America. They are holding firm to banking privacy, and too many, many, many other things which insure freedom.

If people all over the world is clamoring to get there then what global event is going to take place that is going to exclude Central America?

No specific event, I never said any event. They are doing it because freedom in North America, and Europe is being eroded. Yes, the 2 million I specified are coming from those two main groups.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


I just made You one of my friends. You are one of the straightest shooters on here; bringing truth to the table for all to see. I am off shortly to watch the video You provided. It saddens me that so many People who claim to love Peace, and Freedom are so wrapped up in fascism, hate, and being a good little Bolshevik; of course the whole time not knowing, but professing how they love Freedom. I would wager that should Freedom bite their sorry noses they'd not know what it was!!!!!!!

Interestingly enough, but when the initial govt. trials were being done on the 5.56 NATO round, the SS109, they were practicing at 800m with a target consisting of a blue helmet funny huh?

reply to post by silent thunder


Now there are some words I can believe.

It has always just been the will of the people.

And, in these times, the will of the people has started to show up.

But, they have to continue, or it may fall.

If it does, that is when bloodshed will be had by many, if not all.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


I wanted to add to your thread a little snippet my father use to tell us. It may have came from Mark Twain/Samuel Clemens. It is possible it came from scripture or from someone else, but for this I will use it.

In regards to people and the MSM they should remember this quote-

It is better to be considered a fool, than open ones mouth and remove all doubt.

I hate that the politicians and the MSM have tried to takeover the tea party movement. In the beginning it was about big government, now it is about Dem this Repub that.

reply to post by jd140


Its a pretty big difference though isn't it? The fact that people can get angryier quicker now is always cause for celebration.