recycled life.

I have always believed that life is recycled. That means that once your pyisical body is no longer useable, your lifeforce has to find a new body.

I feel there are probably a few ways this is accomplished.

In one, your spirit would find a suitable parent (somebody they felt safe and comfortable around) and stay with them until they find a mate and concieve a new body for you. (this is why people are haunted.)

In another, your spirit would find a safe place to wait (quiet and dark) until an unsuspecting couple came along, opened the door to life, and concieved a new body for you.
(this is why places are haunted.)

if this is indeed true, I think it would be relatively easy to track a lifeforce from one life to the next for many generations.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by president]

Good luck with that. Everything you base this theory on is false and created from ignorant religious dogma, but it was fun to pretend the sticks i found in the woods were swords.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Everything you base this theory on is false and created from
ignorant
religious dogma,

but it was fun to pretend the sticks i found in the woods were swords.

prove that.

and don't admit to stabbing people with sticks. Unless of course you're Buffy.

reply to post by president


Dont mind him he is a thread killer. Its all he does and does it well(for the most part).
I get what your sayin it makes some sence to me. but i dont think all spirits are waiting to be reborn.I believe not all are people that have past on.

Before you even attempt to prove this theory correct, you would have to define what you think a spirit is.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by johnmhinds]

It is the process of being born over and over again in different times and different situations, possibly for many thousand times. As long as there is delusion, greed, and aversion, and as long as passions are not extinguished, we generate karma. Because we eventually accumulate unmaterialised karma, there is a next lifetime in which the accumulated karma will take form. Only when all accumulated karma is realised and the generation of new karma is calmed, one can enter the stream that leads to Nirvana. This process continues until Nirvana is reached, which signifies the cessation of rebirth and, hence, the end of suffering.

Originally posted by BlackRosEmyth
It is the process of being born over and over again in different times and different situations, possibly for many thousand times. As long as there is delusion, greed, and aversion, and as long as passions are not extinguished, we generate karma. Because we eventually accumulate unmaterialised karma, there is a next lifetime in which the accumulated karma will take form. Only when all accumulated karma is realised and the generation of new karma is calmed, one can enter the stream that leads to Nirvana. This process continues until Nirvana is reached, which signifies the cessation of rebirth and, hence, the end of suffering.

You haven't defined what you think a spirit is, you've described what it you think it can do.

You wouldn't describe a cat to by only saying it is something that eats birds and lands on it's feet when it falls.
You'd describe what it looks like, what its texture is, what colour it is, where it lives, etc.

You really do need to define what a spirit is in the same way before you can even start make a theory as complicated as the OP is.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by johnmhinds]

A Body is a physical vessel for the spirit to act in the dimension of the world. a body without a spirit is a car without a driver. It is just a dead vehicle. The driver is the spirit, the car is the body and the car with a driver is the soul.

Originally posted by johnmhinds

Originally posted by BlackRosEmyth
It is the process of being born over and over again in different times and different situations, possibly for many thousand times. As long as there is delusion, greed, and aversion, and as long as passions are not extinguished, we generate karma. Because we eventually accumulate unmaterialised karma, there is a next lifetime in which the accumulated karma will take form. Only when all accumulated karma is realised and the generation of new karma is calmed, one can enter the stream that leads to Nirvana. This process continues until Nirvana is reached, which signifies the cessation of rebirth and, hence, the end of suffering.

You haven't defined what you think a spirit is, you've described what it you think it can do.

You wouldn't describe a cat to by only saying it is something that eats birds and lands on it's feet when it falls.
You'd describe what it looks like, what its texture is, what colour it is, where it lives, etc.

You really do need to define what a spirit is in the same way before you can even start make a theory as complicated as the OP is.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by johnmhinds]

Your right that I should have described the spirit first for what it is, but my personal method is that you can have the picture what the spirit is by lerning from the relations it does with the universe.

139 word thesis?

Me thinks you may have to probe a little deeper than this my friend.

Originally posted by johnmhinds

Originally posted by BlackRosEmyth
It is the process of being born over and over again in different times and different situations, possibly for many thousand times. As long as there is delusion, greed, and aversion, and as long as passions are not extinguished, we generate karma. Because we eventually accumulate unmaterialised karma, there is a next lifetime in which the accumulated karma will take form. Only when all accumulated karma is realised and the generation of new karma is calmed, one can enter the stream that leads to Nirvana. This process continues until Nirvana is reached, which signifies the cessation of rebirth and, hence, the end of suffering.

You haven't defined what you think a spirit is, you've described what it you think it can do.

You wouldn't describe a cat to by only saying it is something that eats birds and lands on it's feet when it falls.
You'd describe what it looks like, what its texture is, what colour it is, where it lives, etc.

You really do need to define what a spirit is in the same way before you can even start make a theory as complicated as the OP is.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by johnmhinds]

SPIRIT
The essence which no longer resides in the body after death. The "being", "soul", "entity" which is the difference between a body, "person" animated or passed on.
The energy which encompasses all that is you but separate from your physical body.Your thoughts, memories,personality, believes, are your spirit.

I believe in reincarnation. I have dreamed of past lives, and so have my children. I remember the exact moment of quickening when my son's spirit entered my body when he was in utero.
I would not use the word recycled. It implies something old, passed on, reused.
I believe we are eternal in spirit, and that the heaven /hell we experience is our own creation.
THOUGHT creates everything.

reply to post by president


Consciousness is recycled through trillions of lifetimes according to the great enlightened
intuition masters. Even Einstein said energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therefore this
includes life energy.

A good resource for this is The Tibetan Book of the Dead.

Here's a good story-I went to a talk by a high Tibetan Lama who was passing through town.
This Tibetan Lama did not speak English and had a translator.
He was talking about how consciousness exits through one of the portals of the body
at the moment of death. These portals include the ears, eyes, mouth and openings in the lower
extremities for beings getting a downgrade into being reborn as animals. Whereas an eye, ear or mouth or even third eye or crown chakra consciousness exit at the moment of death gets you reborn as a human or higher. One older guy who was an obnoxious egotistical loudmouth
asked the Tibetan Lama what portal he was going to exit upon death. The Lama wanted to move on and get to the next question but this rude person would not give up . finally the Tibetan Lama said "Are you certain you want to know?"
"Definitely, yes" the obnoxious ego answered.
The Tibetan Lama answered, " Upon death your consciousness will exit your anus."
The crowd laughed.
Dick Cheney there is your future.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
SPIRIT
The essence which no longer resides in the body after death. The "being", "soul", "entity" which is the difference between a body, "person" animated or passed on.
The energy which encompasses all that is you but separate from your physical body.Your thoughts, memories,personality, believes, are your spirit.

That doesn't still describe what a "spirit" is, that describes what it does, without even saying how it does those things I should point out.

For someone to truly believe a "spirit" could store their memories, beliefs and personality and pass them on to another being, they must at least know the basics of how the process works, they should be able to tell people more facts than just vaguely saying "the spirit leaves the body after you die".

Scientists don't even understand exactly how memories are stored in our own brains yet, how could someone claim to know for certain those same memories can be transferred to another being at this point?

[edit on 19-9-2009 by johnmhinds]

Originally posted by johnmhinds

Originally posted by AccessDenied
SPIRIT
The essence which no longer resides in the body after death. The "being", "soul", "entity" which is the difference between a body, "person" animated or passed on.
The energy which encompasses all that is you but separate from your physical body.Your thoughts, memories,personality, believes, are your spirit.

That doesn't still describe what a "spirit" is, that describes what it does, without even saying how it does those things I should point out.

For someone to truly believe a "spirit" could store their memories, beliefs and personality and pass them on to another being, they must at least know the basics of how the process works, they should be able to tell people more facts than just vaguely saying "the spirit leaves the body after you die".

Scientists don't even understand exactly how memories are stored in our own brains yet, how could someone claim to know for certain those same memories can be transferred to another being at this point?

[edit on 19-9-2009 by johnmhinds]

The spirit is the energy that DOES all those things. Read between the lines.
Of course my post is based on my beliefs as to the process of "how it all works." It makes sense to me.
I never claimed memories ( in entirety) can be transferred. Even the Dalai Lama does not recall everything about his past lives.
We all remember bits and pieces..like deja vu.
Science cannot explain everything. If they cannot break it down into a mathematical equation they don't believe it.
We are still running on monkey brains as far as the inner workings of the universe go, and we might never evolve much past that.

Originally posted by AccessDenied
I never claimed memories ( in entirety) can be transferred. Even the Dalai Lama does not recall everything about his past lives.

Yes you did.

I have dreamed of past lives, and so have my children.

You can't claim to have dreamed of past lives without also in some way believing that you have some other persons memories in your head that can be accessed by dreaming.

And you're right that scientists don't know everything, but scientific reasoning has helped us to understand the world around us more than unsubstantiated beliefs ever will.

I believe in reincarnation because recycling is shown to us in the template of nature. Energy gets recycled and used.

My mothers NDE seemed to of shown her in a past life in the time of Jesus and Pilate. She saw Pilate suffer over his choice on how to handle the people that wanted Jesus to die. Plus she felt that there was a tree in this 'other place' that would of reincarnated her if she chose the rest of the tree instead of the curiosity that laid waiting for her if she went past the tree seeking more. She also said that some could go through the gate....but others could not. She said she felt her mother has been reborn, her mother was there outside of the gates, and was healthier and happier then she had ever seen her, but it was like even though her mother was there, she knew that she was somewhere else at the same time, like here again on Earth (her soul anyways).

My son had a light being come to him at age 5. I wont post the whole experience for he is inocent in such matters and it is his experience to find understanding with later in life. But this being that came to him had a small light that came out of the being of light and entered my son....my son told me that day that he thinks the being gave him 'life'. I said why do you think that....and he said that he just felt like a new 'life' entered into his body and his mind knew it was life.

I think we are beings of two natures here, and we are to sift out of the Earthly nature and become the Spiritual nature. Like grapes going through a winepress....only the best part of the product will be worth anything. Sifting takes time. I look at the world like a giant winepress and we, our Earthly bodies are the grapes. The juices are the spirit. Its symbolic for understanding that there is something within that cant be seen and that something is what is worth saving. You may have a tub of grapes...but only get 1 bottle of wine from it.

Just as though the tree sprouts new seeds....and this tree sprouted from the Earth, those seeds that it sprouts will return from where their source is...which was the Earth, is the Earth.

The seed returns to where it came from, in a cycle, in an order, of nature.

I believe that OT laws were meant to show the karmic cycles of reaping what you sow and for me, this is saying, yes, there is reincarnation. Some say well no, we either make it to heaven or we dont, we have one try. Well then what does it mean that if you kill by the sword you die by the sword, if you murder another then you too will experience murder. This isnt talking about one life...for these things dont happen, we dont witness this.

The Law is spiritual, meaning, its an order or nature of this world. If you do wrong, you will experience being wronged. The reaping what you sow is also in the NT. There is no event that has ever changed this law of spirit.

Originally posted by johnmhinds

Originally posted by AccessDenied
I never claimed memories ( in entirety) can be transferred. Even the Dalai Lama does not recall everything about his past lives.

Yes you did.

I have dreamed of past lives, and so have my children.

You can't claim to have dreamed of past lives without also in some way believing that you have some other persons memories in your head that can be accessed by dreaming.

And you're right that scientists don't know everything, but scientific reasoning has helped us to understand the world around us more than unsubstantiated beliefs ever will.

I said, I have dreamed what I believe to be memories of a past life, in bits and pieces. Not in entirety, nor can I prove they are memories transferred (to use your word) from a previous existence to another.To me, it's not really another person either, just a different body. Defining the word person is similar to defining the word spirit. It's all objective.

Science makes people believe that this is just so, and that is just right according to it's own set of theories and laws. Might be closer to fact than fiction, but barely the tip of the iceberg.

Originally posted by johnmhinds
Before you even attempt to prove this theory correct, you would have to define what you think a spirit is.

[edit on 19-9-2009 by johnmhinds]

A spirit is simply a form of energy, that's why they call it a "life energy."

But I could no more describe its phisical appearance than i could describe the phisical apearance of magnatism or gravity. hell, for that matter I could not describe a piece of fire or a handful of water. without being vague that is. water is wet and fire is hot, but then describe wet and describe hot.

why does the apple fall? gravity did it.
why does the bush burn? fire did it.
why does a car move? a person did it.
Why does a person move? spirit did it.

Its all just energy in some form or another.


My realization was much more morbid than that really. I think the life force gets passed exactly at the time of conception.
You know, that spark that happens when the sperm is released into the egg.

reply to post by president


Before I begin, let me say first that I agree with you to an extent. I believe that the pattern of living consciousness does not dissipate into nothing, that it finds new form when one body becomes unlivable.

Merely seeking clarity, I also have an issue with descriptions of "spirit" like this. People who are spiritually minded (myself included, admittedly) often resort to describing spirit as "life energy" or something of that nature. But this doesn't really tell us anything. Energy is a physical phenomenon. Energy is movement. Forms of energy include heat, light, sound, momentum, mass, chemical energy, electricity and so on. If you are going to say that spirit is energy, you have to define what physical system this energy is associated with. During one's lifetime, the energy of spirit is obviously associated with the physical system of the body. As far as anyone can tell, upon death there is no sort of structured discharge that would indicate a large amount of energy departing from the body. Even if it did, there would be no way for its pattern to be preserved without physical form or a coherent waveform to sustain it. Science has pretty well demonstrated that if spirit exists, it is not energy, and it is not something detectable by our physical instruments.

I understand what you're trying to say, but your definition of spirit as energy is going to be problematic for many science-minded people (myself included, admittedly). I would like to offer the idea that spirit, if one needs to give it a name, is not energy, but information. Information is structure whereas energy is movement. An explosion has a whole lot of energy, but not much information. I would hypothesize that consciousness or spirit resides in the information associated with a living system, especially the brain. Information is not utterly dependent upon a physical system, and can be transmitted without an energy vector by means of quantum entanglement. Systems can be entangled irrespective of distance in space, time, and possibly even across parallel universes. If two systems in two different parts of the universe are entangled (like the narratives of two people's lives taking similar courses) then if one system is destroyed its essence continues by a non-linear means in the other system. I think that's a much better description of reincarnation, as it does not rely on some kind of undefined spectral entity physically traveling from one body to another, a phenomenon for which we have no evidence.