Can Science and Religion Coincide?

I honestly, have been very hesitant in making this thread, for opinion purposes only.

I may be bias in this, and I suspect that it may be prevalent in this thread, but I feel as such, Science and Religion, albeit whatever religion it is.

But I do not think, that in any way, religion and science can coincide, in no way!

Things like this, further me.

I honestly, don't believe that 1,000 years from now, mormonism shall survive, but if it does, most can say, something awful has happened, and you can look into that as you may.

I just can't think or humor the idea, that The bible or quran, will be able to survive the next 1,000 years, (those may say, there won't be 1,000 more years due to apocalpyse, rapture, and nibiru such) I can't imagine us, believing in a biblical sense that these things should be held to a par value of what science will bring us.

I think that, there will, and almost inevitably be a 'war' mind it a new 'war' be fought from science and religion.

Of course, the dogmatic religions, have a "good" value in them, meaning that people look at religion, mainly their own, as being good, and at others, as being, close but not exactly a strike, maybe a spare.

For science, people often say, from my viewpoint, bias as been, admittingly, is that science is ridiculed, and untrustworthy. Which bewilders me, at that.

But there is a new and rising group, they have been pushed and ridiculed, and shanked out of their religions, but kept lingering affects from them.

This group is the Agnostics, the ones, who understand rightfully so, that religion is wrong, and kudos to that! It is, it is wrong.

But they have now moved on to agnosticsm, that, they move onto the belief that a god must exist.

Now the church (vatican) in has stuck their pitchfork in this, trying to embrace anything that the bible may be against, and it's disgusting, obey the faith or abandon it.

For agnostics, it's to me like believing in tooth fairys, and saying well, I don't know where my teeth go (decay wise) so a tooth fairy may infact be possible, and not too far from the truth.

I just, can't see that Religion and Science, can walk Hand in Hand.

If anyone can, please help clarify this issue, and I will due my best do discuss it civily.


Edit to add: also spawned from www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 18-9-2009 by Republican08]

I believe science will be able to cure religion via gene therapy and that they are actively working on it for humanity's sake.

Science and religion can never coincide simply because one is based in facts, and the the other in fairytales.

One only needs to see the decline in numbers of people attending churches in the last 50 years, which coincides with the illumination of scientific discoveries and facts.

Religion will evolve into philosophy at best, but the silly stories of talking snakes and an invisible man in the sky will eventually end up as children’s bed time stories.




[edit on 18-9-2009 by WorldObserver]

Originally posted by king9072
reply to post by Republican08

 

I swear I have seen at least 100+ of your posts/threads in the last couple months. I think, that I can honestly and without any uncertainty say that you are absolutely out to lunch. I know you got some personal issues, but man, seriously...

Science and religion? When will you buy a clue.

Yes and i've sent you a polite U2U since, this is something i'm talking about in a manner of recent threads, addressing so to speak.

And I feel your quick criticism isn't needed.

I have enough respect for you, to not, post something that will dock me points (and many can't say that)

I just wish you wouldn't be so darn rude.

In almost everything i've seen from you, it's been a rude statement, with tons of stars.

I'm going to assume you haven't read the thread, as an honest question, and some may say a good question. I know many threads you can go and attack if you wish.

reply to post by Republican08


The way I see it here, what is the difference??

In science every study, cure or project has one thing in common called money.
When things go wrong and the study does not produce the correct result at times certain people will change the results for they stand to lose a tonne of money and I have witnessed this myself within Biotech.

In religion the pope has the audacity to say that the only way to god is through him?

The bible clearly states that the only way is through Jesus in case nobody knows this but dont take my word for it, read it.

Any difference here? Both two people changing the results for their own end all down to money.

Corrupt science and corrupt religion is the same thing so I guess in a sense two wrongs can make one wrong if thats what your asking.



[edit on 18-9-2009 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by XXXN3O


Well as sagacious a post as that was.

Do you think, that eventually they could coincide?

If I may of missed something in your post?

Also check U2U shortly.

I believe they can coincide. The inability to do that peacefully only lies within parties that refuse to allow others to choose differently from themselves.

But aside from whether people allow the coexistence of religion and science to be peaceful or not - both WILL always exist.

reply to post by Republican08

I don't know exactly what history there is between you and king9072, but I got to say, I find your original post very hard to follow. It is like you're beginning a thought or sentence, but not completing it, and every few words, whether it is required or not, you put a comma (which means that -out of habit- I'm pausing every few words, and reading your post like some sort of mutant haiku ).

Now on-topic, I have to say, I completely disagree with you. I don't know whether the religions you mentioned will exist 1000 years from now (although I suspect that they will, in some mutant form), but the point is not really relevant to "science vs religion", is it? Taking the cue from history, "Science" as we know it probably won't exist 1000 years from now either.

I definitely don't believe there will ever be a "war" between science and religion. Despite its idiocy, I have enough faith in humanity for THAT.

The dichotomy in science and spirituality is completely manufactured (by certain dishonest people in both camps), and I don't believe it is inherent in either of the concepts.

reply to post by Republican08


Hey Republican,

Of course science and religion can and do collide.

Because the creator created science.

And mankind is slowly but surely reconciling the two things.

Who else created science? Nothing and no-one.

But things that some people know through faith take other people without faith a lot longer to realize.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Republican08

 

And mankind is slowly but surely reconciling the two things.

Who else created science? Nothing and no-one.

But things that some people know through faith take other people without faith a lot longer to realize.

I editted albeit.

But who created the creator?

Nothing created, a creator? That's illogical to me.

Albeit your off my foe list for a reason, and most likely a respectful reason, so I have no choice but to respect you.

What things through faith take things longer for those without?

Honest not attacking questions.

reply to post by Republican08


Nobody can know for certain what or who created God while we are here.

If God is the father and we are the children as the bible says. Think about that for a second and look at it literally, how on earth can a kid know better than their parent?

We are kids in preschool for what of a better way to put it. Would a teacher start teaching a small child advanced algebra in kindergarden?

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Republican08

 

I don't know exactly what history there is between you and king9072, but I got to say, I find your original post very hard to follow. It is like you're beginning a thought or sentence, but not completing it, and every few words, whether it is required or not, you put a comma (which means that -out of habit- I'm pausing every few words, and reading your post like some sort of mutant haiku

).

Now on-topic, I have to say, I completely disagree with you. I don't know whether the religions you mentioned will exist 1000 years from now (although I suspect that they will, in some mutant form), but the point is not really relevant to "science vs religion", is it? Taking the cue from history, "Science" as we know it probably won't exist 1000 years from now either.

I definitely don't believe there will ever be a "war" between science and religion. Despite its idiocy, I have enough faith in humanity for THAT.

The dichotomy in science and spirituality is completely manufactured (by certain dishonest people in both camps), and I don't believe it is inherent in either of the concepts.

Alot in this post, thougth I'd quote it all.

King and me, well, have a bunch of issues, lol.

I read through my OP, if you can point out things, I'd be glad.

Science changes almost daily, but religion, changes things to fit it, so, is religion not on par, but it also, claims to be a sustained idea!

I admire your faith in humanity, but faith and science, can't exist I believe.

The scientific method I believe will live on, I doubt the koran or bible, will live on, for another thousand years, In 1,000 yeard, we've gone through so much, we have speaking stones, we went through much, another thousand, I can only wonder, what science will bring us.

What the bible brings us, is hellfire, then and only then a perfect world, for christians in that, which many, won't be in... the rest, will burn in a fictional hell, but you can imagine you'll probably be there.

I just can't see, science and a 1,500 year old book talking about a supernatural hell, coinciding.

A war, may not be possible, but may infact be plausible in my eyes, they wil collide.

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by Republican08

 

Nobody can know for certain what or who created God while we are here.

If God is the father and we are the children as the bible says. Think about that for a second and look at it literally, how on earth can a kid know better than their parent?

We are kids in preschool for what of a better way to put it. Would a teacher start teaching a small child advanced algebra in kindergarden?

Yes but we know kids, who are genius' beyond their time!

we wonder, these kids are reaching there 30's and are no longer using reasoning of the preschoolers.

We know things now, that they didn't know when gods were created, microorganisms, blew are minds!

Back then they were damnations of gods.

We now know, many things, that we didn't know when these texts where written, and they can no longer keep up with science, and it's obvious.

reply to post by Republican08


Heres another way to put this then.

I cant quote fact with this and this is my opinion of course and I dont think its far off.

Less than one third of the world understands the message from god and that is decreasing.

How can someone ask who created God if they cannot understand even God and even better than that, how can anyone expect to understand an answer to that question right now?

The bible is predicting the things that are happening right now if you read it, how is that possible if it was written before all these things happened as you say?

reply to post by Republican08


The question of who started this whole mess that we live in - no-one can ever answer that.

I, personally, believe in a Creator - and, as you say, who created the creator - no-one, because there was nothing around.

Back at that point you either have to believe in a Creator, or a random convergence - but something had to have started that, right?

That is why I believe in God.

And I believe that the Creator created everything, including science - which only means knowledge.

Originally posted by Republican08


The scientific method I believe will live on, I doubt the koran or bible, will live on, for another thousand years, In 1,000 yeard, we've gone through so much, we have speaking stones, we went through much, another thousand, I can only wonder, what science will bring us.

What the bible brings us, is hellfire, then and only then a perfect world, for christians in that, which many, won't be in... the rest, will burn in a fictional hell, but you can imagine you'll probably be there.

I just can't see, science and a 1,500 year old book talking about a supernatural hell, coinciding.

A war, may not be possible, but may infact be plausible in my eyes, they wil collide.

You actually are defeating your own argument here. It doesn't matter if the "religion" of millenia ago were speaking stones, sacred tree groves, urim, thumim, crosses or pixie sticks...as you have just pointed out, religion has always existed and will always exist. In a 1000 years there may or may not be remnants of the Mormons, Baptists, Catholics or Buddhists - but there will still be some form of religion.

And they have already collided - what the heck do you think the Dark Ages were? Why in Sam Hill do you think we lost a wealth of knowledge from the Persians, Alexandria, etc.??? Because of collisions where nefarious leaders, forces, etc. intentionally acted to try to stomp out the other side.

Point is history shows BOTH will always survive no matter what the other side brings to the battle.

The whole argument between the two sides is nothing but a fanatic-driven pissing contest that matters not to the majority of EITHER side. Most intelligent folks really don't have a problem allowing another person to choose differently than themselves. I do believe the majority will always end up on top.

reply to post by XXXN3O


Hey X,

Star and hi from me.

Just to stop a oneliner - I always agree with you.

reply to post by Republican08

Hey Republican08!

Originally posted by Republican08
Science changes almost daily, but religion, changes things to fit it, so, is religion not on par, but it also, claims to be a sustained idea!

But science changes things to it also. First people thought that after the big bang the universe would expand for a bit, then it would slow down and contract into the big crunch. This theory was discarded when we found out that the universe is expanding at an increasing rate (it is not slowing down, it is speeding up). To reconcile this idea that the universe is acceleratedly expanding, people came up with the concept of Dark Energy, "just to make things fit". Other examples are phlogiston and aether.

The scientific method may be a wonderful thing, but the acquisition of knowledge (even involving the "sciences") existed long before that. In fact, it is interesting to note that it was fairly religious people, following what they considered their religious duty, who laid the groundwork for much of the scientific method. Also, while it may seem logical that the scientific method would be applicable forever (just as it seems logical to us that electromagnetic waves travel from the sun to the earth through vacuum- something that would have made no sense to our predecessors), it is not necessarily so. While I make no claims to understand it properly, Quantum physics may be an example of this.
You say it yourself: "The scientific method I believe will live on".

For a true "believer", it is obvious that God created everything, including the laws and structure by which the universe works (ie. science). Therefore, there is no problem or collision between their beliefs and what they learn from the universe around them.

Personally for me, I find that the beauty and elegance of the knowledge derived from this scientific method only reinforces my belief in God.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by babloyi]

reply to post by Republican08


This is a very good question. Before I say anymore, I think ill share my viewpoint on this.

My Heart wants to believe there is a God/Supreme Being or whatever you want to call it while my brain says religeon doesnt really make any sense. My mind is open though as I search for an answer that may bring my heart and mind closer together.

I do however not believe the bible storys literally its just didnt happen how it says in my mind anyways. Plus in my experience religeon alway have hidden agendas etc. That said cant God be seperate from religeon I mean Man created religeon not God and if you look through the historys of religeons they all link into each other someway or another.

Now I love science I have to say but also I would like to point that things that are considered fact now may not always be fact. For example the world was once flat etc.

We should never accept anything really as 100% as things change as we advance and if we are unwillingy to accept that it stagnates us just as much as religeon can.

Life is a journey and to come the the most sensible answer we must keep an open mind and always ask questions.

I think the question should be can God and Science Coincide really, as religeon justmakes the issue messy and nonsensical. Of course that is just my opinion.

Maybe Science can become closer to God and vice versa, who knows.

Peace

[edit on 18-9-2009 by tempest501]