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Old Threads Revisited by Twitchy

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posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:09 AM
Let me first begin this thread with a warm and hearfelt salutation. Those of you whom I've known from the years we've spent together on this board particularly, I want to make sure you guys know that I absolutely think the world of this community. Through all the endless hours of reading and debating here, I think we have collectively created an incredible and astounding compendium of knowledge, and an odd sense of comradery that transcends these lines of texts and bonds us all together, friend or foe alike. I've enjoyed my time here immensely, and I've learned more here from you guys than I had ever thought possible.

That said, there is a growing problem on the 9-11 forum that needs to be dealt with. I can't really identify specifically when or how it started, but for the last two years or so ATS has seen an influx of a really nasty crowd of these so called 'debunkers'. People who have no interest in discussion or debate, no inclination towards research or learning new information, they are here simply to cause grief, hamper progress and obfuscate or derail threads. Whatever their motives, be it the intentional efforts of agent provacatuers, or just people who lack the decorum to demonstrate civility, they have caused a terrible weakening of the ATS fabric and a great rift in this community. They offer nothing to this forum but insults and generalizations, I'm utterly sick of it and I've decided to do something about it.

Enter this thread... Let it be well understood before you proceed, this one is going to be a little different from my usual, and it may be difficult to understand from a debunker's point of view because I simply have no intentions of getting dragged into a pointless debate. I'm not going to argue with you, I'm not going to respond to your demands or assume some burden of proof for you. I've been on this site for five years now and have been very active in 9-11 research, if you feel you need to debate, argue, or just insult me, then feel free to use the search function and meet me on another thread, we'll argue as usual there. This one is mine, and I think I've hopefully given enough to ATS to earn that right. Feel free to point out any errors, say what you like even, but I'm NOT DEBATING this thread, I'm giving it you. I hope you understand that.

I've been going through some of the old threads in the 9-11 forum over trying to see what we've covered here through the years and I've decided to investigate some of the more important ones for the benefit of those who will read it, and the truth movement as a whole. We've covered alot of information through the years, vital information in alot of cases and as this movement slowly but surely builds momentum despite those who would supress, it behooves us all to take a real close hard look at what we have to offer that movement, and take out some of the trash as well...

Hello ATS, my name is Twitchy, and I will be your guide on this tour through 9-11 ATS nostalgia, and I hope it will be an educational and enlightening experience for all of us.

One at a time, I will start with this one...

William One Sac's thread in 2002, Al Qaeda Confess To 9/11 Attacks
I think this was one of the first 9-11 threads I read on ATS, I joined a couple years after this was posted by William One Sac and I didn't reply to it, so I guess technically this first one isn't a revisit for me. I read it, realized how important the information was in terms of the America's reaction to 9-11 and decided to tackle this one first and foremost. This is the information that sold most Americans on Alqeda's role in the Sept. 11 attacks.

It's also probably complete Rubbish....

It discusses the videotaped interview that was conducted in 2002 by Yosri Fouda, Chief of London's Bureau of Al Jazeera with two top alqeda operatives, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh who would later be known the world round as the masterminds behind 9-11. Yorsi Fouda claimed to have been contacted by these individuals and subsequently granted an exclusive videotaped interview which took place in June, 2002.
The unprecedented and explosive interview with the criminal masterminds of the 9-11 attacks was to be aired on Al Jazeera on a two hour special report segment, Sept. 9, 2002, and afterwards it would hit the western media, spreading through an angry America like wildfire. But the interview wasn't complete, and all it had turned out to be was Fouda sitting in a motel room with a pixelated emmisary of Khalid's (to hide his identity) and Binalshibh, the original interview he had been granted turned out to be only a few minutes of a garbled audio recording of the interview that would center around the validity of the Osama Bin Laden video that had been released in Dec. 2001 (the fat dark fake looking Bin Laden we're all so familiar with.) Basicly, little more than some ambiguous references to the evils of western civilization and a sales pitch for the authenticity of the fake Osama we were being sold who flipped flopped from a previous interview and was now claiming responsibility for the attacks.

Oddly, Yorsi Fouda claimed that the men retained the video tape after granting him the interview, and that they had then mailed him a tape containing only the audio of that interview, and the audio had been altered, allegedly for the purposes of disguising their identity.... Pause for a moment and think about that. They identifed themselves as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh, the man who supposedly organized the alqeda cell in Hamburg that gave us Mohamed Atta, granted him a videotaped interview to confess and discuss thier roles as masterminds of the 9-11 attacks, and then kept the tape and garbled the audio so they wouldn't be identified used this valuable air time to simply sell the validity of a very dubious Osama Bin Laden confession...

Two days after this interview aired on Al Jazeera television, Pakistani and American Agents raided a stronghold in Karachi, and arrested Binalshibh, Khalid was said to have narrowly escaped. As the story broke and the usual investigations began it appeared that Fouda had indeed broke the story of the year and was the original source of their connections to 9-11. He was hailed as the man who broke this story to the US and the world, discovering the planners of the attacks.

But there was another problem for Fouda, the date that interview took place June 2002, was called into question because it conflicted with the intelligence the US had supposedly gleaned through the famous waterboarding technique from Abu Zubaydah in March 2002 the information regarding Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Binalshibh's role in the attacks, and it called into question Foud's status as the story breaker. Fouda's solution to this problem was to simply change the date the interview had taken place, and claimed that it was actually done in May of 2002. When asked about this discrepancy by Abdallah Schleifer in an interview, he simply replied, "I lied." and further explained, "Yes, of course. I lied because I needed to lie. I'll tell you why. Because I thought, maybe even expected, that if something went wrong and I needed to get in touch with them through a website or a statement or a fax ... they would be the only ones who would know that I had met them one month earlier than I let on, and so I'd know I was talking to the right people." and then claimed the interview had taken place in May 2002.

Sounded reasonable enough, but still called into question his status as world renown story breaking journalist because of the dates the US had attributed to their intel gleaned from Abu Zubaydah in March 2002, so in march of 2003 after the arrest of Khalid, the American media was again hailing Foud as the man who brought these guys to the attention of the US and Foud again changed the date this interview took place AGAIN, saying in an interview with The Guardian, that he had conducted the interview in April 2002.
His credibility was restored in the eyes of the world, and the story was sold as is, like a used car.

When Zubaydah was captured, Bush himself even quipped they had found Alqeda's #3 man and alqeda's cheif of operations, but the CIA would later say they were mistaken about the high value role of Abu Zubaydah, the only other real source for this information at the time.

Washington Post
CIA Mistaken on 'High-Value' Detainee, Document Shows
An al-Qaeda associate captured by the CIA and subjected to harsh interrogation techniques said his jailers later told him they had mistakenly thought he was the No. 3 man in the organization's hierarchy and a partner of Osama bin Laden, according to newly released excerpts from a 2007 hearing.
"They told me, 'Sorry, we discover that you are not Number 3, not a partner, not even a fighter,' " said Abu Zubaida, speaking in broken English, according to the new transcript of a Combatant Status Review Tribunal held at the U.S. military prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba....
Intelligence, military and law enforcement sources told The Washington Post this year that officials later concluded he was a Pakistan-based "fixer" for radical Islamist ideologues, but not a formal member of al-Qaeda, much less one of its leaders.
Abu Zubaida, a nom de guerre for Zayn al-Abidin Muhammed Hussein, told the 2007 panel of military officers at the detention facility in Cuba that "doctors told me that I nearly died four times" and that he endured "months of suffering and torture" on the false premise that he was an al-Qaeda leader....
Abu Zubaida, 38, was subjected 83 times to waterboarding...
The Palestinian was held at a secret CIA facility after his capture...

Out of Room, more to come...

[edit on 16-9-2009 by twitchy]

posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 04:14 PM
Great idea, and basically sums up a lot of what you explicitly explained via the lack of replies, keep it going

posted on Sep, 16 2009 @ 05:18 PM

Originally posted by twitchythere is a growing problem on the 9-11 forum that needs to be dealt with. I can't really identify specifically when or how it started, but for the last two years or so ATS has seen an influx of a really nasty crowd of these so called 'debunkers'. People who have no interest in discussion or debate, no inclination towards research or learning new information, they are here simply to cause grief, hamper progress and obfuscate or derail threads. Whatever their motives, be it the intentional efforts of agent provacatuers, or just people who lack the decorum to demonstrate civility, they have caused a terrible weakening of the ATS fabric and a great rift in this community. They offer nothing to this forum but insults and generalizations, I'm utterly sick of it and I've decided to do something about it

Great post OP ! And now that you bring it up, I'd like to expand a bit on what you're saying.. My rant for the month

I've said a few times in the past there's never really been a central site or database yet that has a compilation of ALL or the KEY BULLIT facts, evidence, questions etc for the layman. I've been thinking about creating such a site. But in the meantime, the point is there's a necessary process of seeking truth that one must be prepared for or have a desire to do since theres so much data/material out there one has to filter through to get certain KEY facts in order to truly understand the scope of the 9/11 conspiracy and thats its not like other more vague conspiracy (theories) like JFK or MLK.

Alot of material out there can actually alienate newbies who usually have a short attention span or see evidence out of context which leads to things getting lost in translation. So most often its a waste of time debating with the ignorant who really aren't the truth seekers they claim to be.

Theres literally thousands of sites, and pages of data one must filter through in order to fully understand the conspiracy in CONTEXT.
You can take different pieces of the puzzle and get a decent view of what really happened, but to the average person who is new to the conspiracy or doesn't have alot of time to wade through all the information due to normal struggles or distractions in their lives, the fact the TRUTH is usually too much for most peoples ego to accept and deal with initially, is what imo prevents the truth movement from reaching the mass population or mainstream quicker.

Alot of skeptics are still on the fence, and there's way too much BS from both sides to filter through, so the most important parts of the puzzle get lost in the petty rhetorical arguments or heated debates that don't focus strictly on the facts. The data and time it takes to research is usually too much trouble for most, and the ignorance is bliss stance is how most would rather deal with 9/11.. at least for now.

Its taken several years for the truth to take hold and fully resonate with enough people to create sites, analysis and documentaries which have led to new discoveries and anomaly revelations to be found which have strengthened the truthers argument beyond any other generic conspiracies that get swept under the rug. But 9/11 will only continue to gain more and more strength the more sites and videos appear and people keep passing it along, rehashing evidence, and shoving it down the throats those who are still kicking and screaming hoping it will go away.

We're supposed to be in the information age so the technology available to investigate and analyze is extremely advanced,,, something the perpetrators didn't anticipate. They used technology and the media to pull of 9/11 and now those same tools are now being used against them.

So Imo, as i said, what needs to happen to get the truth out quicker and more effectively, is more compilation or BEST OF type video's and sites that hit the BULLIT points and make it easy for newbies and skeptics to understand. Charlie Sheens latest Video is a good example of this and
what I hope will start happening more.

I have always searched for and would have loved to have found such a site long ago that contained a condensed summation of key facts and LINKS to the best videos and sites that are easy to navigate and comprehend quickly in a world where most get their information via quick sound/video bytes.

Also something called FREQUENCY rules the universe on many levels as it applies to INFORMATION and its resonation. What happened on 9/11 is on a high frequency, so unless ones frequency is high enough, it may take longer to resonate or they may never see as i submit is what we see here in ATS. It took several years for the truth of 9/11 to fully resonate with what many of the hardcore truthers were seeing and told by was truth by the media and government even though it was right in front of their faces from day one. Most were and still are in a trance like state/delusion in which they knew/know something didn't/doesn't seem right with the official story but they've been conditioned/programmed to follow the status quo based on fear to question authority and society and therefore RESIST higher consciousness reality until they've evolved far or fast enough intellectually to be ready to understand, see or PROCESS the information so it resonates. The more sites and compilation video's that appear which are easy to navigate, understand and contain condensed KEY FACTS and bullit points, the faster the truth will resonate with a larger percentage. And thats what will increase the chances of the PEOPLE bringing the perpetrators to justice.

Although I feel its extremely important to continue getting the truth out about 9/11, I submit its already far too late to avert the path and events that have been set in motion by that event. One being War with Iran which I believe will be the catalyst triggering mankinds worst fears of an event within the next 2 years that could very well lead to nuclear terrorism.

For now the perpetrators are too powerful and control most of the world and governments and I don't think the truth will resonate with enough of the people fast enough to stop the EVIL being planned by the same group that pulled off 911. The day the US invaded Iraq and most Americans blindly supported and accepted it, was the moment it was too late to avert what seers from nostradamus to cayce to the native american, shaman and mayans have warned of through the ages.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Orion7911]

posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 04:17 AM
Stonewalling is defined by as "the act of stalling, evading, or filibustering, esp. to avoid revealing politically embarrassing information." It's a functional enough definition of the word, and perhpas more forgiving and politically correct than it's less appealing synonym, Cover-up. One implies avoiding embarassment, the other implies the concealment of criminal activity.
As the subsequent investigations of the Sept. 11 attacks on the Pentagon and the World Trade Center began to gather momentum, the American Public was introduced to both of these terms, repeatedly, and the investigations began to read something like a murder mystery with pages and chapters torn out. Very important chapters...

Tonight, we'll be taking a look at one of the older threads here on ATS dealing specifically with the incredulous actions on the part of the Bush Administration in stonewalling the Independent Congressional Investigation of 9-11.
First on the menu, White House refuses to release Sept. 11 info
This thread was posted by ATS member CoLD aNGeR in May of 2003, and while the OP fails to directly link the article quoted to it's original source, it was on the news wires and I managed to find references to it being printed by the Miami Herald and other major news outlets, so the validity of the article is not in question. Let's have a look...

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration and the nation's intelligence agencies are blocking the release of sensitive information about the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, delaying publication of a 900-page congressional report on how the terrorist assault happened.
Intelligence officials insist the information must be kept secret for national security reasons. But some of the information is already broadly available on the Internet or has been revealed in interim reports on the investigation, leading to charges that the administration is simply trying to avoid enshrining embarrassing details in the report.

In Feburary 2002, the Senate Select Intelligence Committee and the House Committee on Intelligence began to conduct a joint inquiry into the activities of the intelligence community both before and after the attacks of Sept. 11. A copy of their findings was eventually published despite the efforts in delaying it publication and stonewalling actively employed by the Bush Administration and can be found in it's entirety here.
Before we get into the Bush Administration's stonewalling efforts, let's take a good look at the committees that were preparing this report...
It is interesting to note that the House Intelligence Committee was chaired by none other than Porter Goss, Yale Alumni, Republican Congressman from Jeb Bush's Florida Government, former CIA agent and eventually director of the CIA replacing George Tenet in Sept. 2004. The Senate Committee Chair was Bob Graham, also of Florida, who would later accuse the Bush Administration of an active 'cover-up' of 9-11 related failures in the intelligence community prior to the attacks. It is interesting to note of him that he would later engage in various disagreements with the CIA in regards to their use of Water Boarding and other torture methods.
Now here's the kicker...


In late August 2001, barely a couple of weeks before September 11, Senator Bob Graham, Representative Porter Goss and Senator Jon Kyl were on a top level mission in Islamabad, which was barely mentioned by the US media.

Meetings were held with President Pervez Musharraf and with Pakistan's military and intelligence brass including the head of Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) General Mahmoud Ahmad. Amply documented, the ISI is known to support a number of Islamic terrorist organizations. (See Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) at )

According to the FBI, Indian Intelligence and several press reports, the ISI Head was instrumental in providing financial support to the 9/11 terrorists. General Mahmoud Ahmad had allegedly ordered the transfer of $100.000 to the presumed 9/11 ring-leader Mohamed Atta.

On the morning of September 11, the three lawmakers Bob Graham, Porter Goss and Jon Kyl (who were part of the Congressional delegation to Pakistan) were having breakfast on Capitol Hill with General Ahmad, the alleged "money-man" (to use the FBI expression) behind the 9/11 hijackers. Also present at this meeting were Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. Maleeha Lodhi and several members of the Senate and House Intelligence committees. This meeting was described by one press report as a "follow-up meeting" to that held in Pakistan in late August.

When the twin towers were attacked, General Mahmoud Ahmad, head of Pakistan’s intelligence service, was, in Senator Graham's own words, "very empathetic, sympathetic to the people of the United States," (Stuart News Company Press Journal (Vero Beach, FL), September 12, 2001).
Bob Graham's description of the General Ahmad, contrasts with that of the Washington Post:
"On the morning of Sept. 11, Goss and Graham were having breakfast with a Pakistani general named Mahmud Ahmed — the soon-to-be-sacked head of Pakistan’s intelligence service. Ahmed ran a spy agency notoriously close to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban." (Washington Post, 18 May 2002).

Were all familiar with the allegations that ran through the Agence France Presse, the French News Wires regarding the CIA agents that were meeting with Osama bin Laden in the American Hospital in Dubai, yet no one seems to recall this crucial piece of information which further alludes to the intimacy of the CIA and the Pakistani ISI, Pakistan's intelligence agency well known to fund Islamic radicalism. Both of these Chairmen along with Sen. Jon Kyl and other members of the intelligence committees were meeting with none other than General Mahmoud Ahmad, the head of the ISI and the man who had personally wired Mohamed Atta the sum of $100,000 before the attacks. Ahmad would also meet with Colin Powell after the attacks. Conviently, this information was excluded from the congressional report they published.

Disputed information includes a well publicized warning from an FBI agent that al-Qaida supporters might be training in U.S. flight schools and the names of the president and his national security adviser as people who may have received warnings that a terrorist attack was possible before Sept. 11, one official said.

Some of those Exact Same Flight Schools, go all the way back through US History to the JFK assasination, Oswald, up through Bush Sr. alleged coc aine running operations through Mena AK, and right up to the attacks of Sept. 11, but that's another issue I will hopefully get to soon enough.
There's a great Synopsis of some of the information in regards to prior warnings from various FBI and Intelligence operatives in three parts, 1, 2, 3, but to summarize, they knew damned well that trouble was brewing in the form of a large terrorist attack on US soil, probably involving civilian or commerical aircraft. With the exception of perhaps the New York Times who confirmed this angle, what the mainstream media and this report fail to mention however, is that elements of the Mossad, or Israeli intelligence, had been tailing these flight school students around the country for years prior, and one of the alleged 9-11 Hijackers, Ziad al-Jarrah, was a cousin of a confirmed mossad agent later arrested in Lebanon.

The rest of the Article Speaks for itself.

The joint inquiry, in a Sept. 24 staff report, included portions of the memo and summarized how it was handled and ignored by FBI officials. Most of the memo is on several Internet sites. Now intelligence officials want to block releasing excerpts of the memo.
Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the ranking Republican on the Senate committee during the investigation, said: "The memo should be declassified except for portions that might compromise an ongoing investigation."
The Bush administration also consistently have fought identifying top officials, including the president and national security adviser Condoleezza Rice, who may have received warnings in 2001 that bin Laden's network planned to hijack commercial aircraft.
As a result, the report includes vague references to "senior administration officials."
"We fought that argument (to name officials) and lost," said Goss. "There's a history in these types of reports, going back many presidencies, that you do not mention the president of the United States, period."
Goss said there was "no cover-up of vital information" and predicted the final report will include some embarrassing details but "no 'gotcha' material about any administration."
Roemer, an Indiana Democrat, said he sees a pattern of "overclassification" by an administration unwilling to disclose information and agencies that reflexively fight disclosure.
When Roemer recently tried to read transcripts of closed-door interviews from last year's probe, the Justice Department blocked him, citing possible executive privilege.
Bush officials relented after Roemer publicly complained the administration was not following its pledge of cooperation with the independent investigation.

More to come...

posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 04:50 AM
Just a quick addendum to say thanks to Orion and Seventh, I hate typing so this is isn't going to be the most fun I've ever had, but I do appreciate the comments and look forwards to posting more on this one.
I don't know why I bother sometimes, but then, every now and then, someone will post and say, 'I didn't know that', 'I'll look into it' or 'I never heard about that' and then I remember why we're doing this.
ATS isn't the same site it was years ago when I joined. There's alot more cynicism and personal attacks from these debunkers now, and I honestly feel that there's a distinct lack of appreciation for the incredible content we have generated for them over the years. However, this is still the best conspiracy site on the net and this is important stuff. ATS was at the top of it's game not so very long ago and 9-11 was the focal point of some truly great minds here. That's why I want to look at these older threads in depth.

I would also invite all of you to review some of the older 9-11 threads on here, the last page of which is here. There's gold in dem dar hills.

[edit on 20-9-2009 by twitchy]

posted on Sep, 20 2009 @ 05:24 AM

Originally posted by Seventh
Great idea, and basically sums up a lot of what you explicitly explained via the lack of replies, keep it going

agreed, this stuff is great

and very interesting!

[edit on 20-9-2009 by ineverknew]

posted on Sep, 25 2009 @ 03:50 AM
The contention that the attacks of Sept. 11 were an inside job, perpetrated by the American Government and Intelligence Agencies in order to justify sweeping military action in the oil rich and strategically crucial middle east and further their political agendas isn't a new revelation.
The first real public hint, if not confirmation, of this suspicion came in the form of the classified depositions given by witnesses relevant to the investigation of the attacks, and reported as heard by Attorney Stanley Hilton. Mr. Hilton, was a senior advisor to Sen. Bob Dole and several other Washington movers and shakers, who filed a class action lawsuit in 2002 in the amount of 7 billion dollars against President Geroge Bush and other prominent members of his administration.

In March of 2003, ATS member All Seeing Eye posted a thread entitled, Hilton: 9-11 Hijackers funded by the US Government. It's a brief thread which linked to a MP3 copy of Hilton's original interview on the Alex Jones radio show, but worthy of further investigation and review.

The lawsuit filed on June 3rd, 2002, on behalf of "TAXPAYERS OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" by Stanley Hilton named 400 plantiffs, representing 14 families of the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks alledging that the foreknowledge of the attacks and the inaction of the Administration to prevent them was a criminal act which directly harmed the 9-11 victims, and going even further to accuse the Bush Administration of conspiring to actually orchestrate the attacks to further his political ends.

Although the case was dismissed by Judge , primarily on the grounds of the Doctrine of Sovereign Immunity, which basicly says a sitting president can't be sued or even really held accountable for criminal activity by citizens, and claiming that the plantiffs had failed to failed to "establish the required causal connection between [their] alleged injuries and these defendants' conduct", a copy of that ruling can be found here.
Hilton, who was quoted as saying simply, ""I hope it will expose the fact that there are numbers of people in the government, including Bush and his top assistants, who wanted this to happen," would then be put through the usual media bersmerching and bashing, but one of the more interesting aspects of this lawsuit was his brief status of being made privy to otherwise classified depositions from various 9-11 witnesses.

During an exclusive radio interview with Alex Jones on march 11, 2003, he detailed one of the more alarming of these interviews which would indicate that some of the alleged Hijackers had actually worked as double agents for the American Government. It wasn't something I really looked into at the time until I realized that the flight school in question here had already turned up in recent American Narco Corruption history. How interesting.

Hilton claimed that during the course of his work on the case he had interviewed the wife of one of the alleged hijackers (a hijacker who like so may others, turned out to be alive and well long after 9-11), who told him that that she had "met Mohammad Atta and his younger brother, and that this group were double-agents operating in a series of cells that were aided and abetted by the US government" and "She mentioned that these 'cells' were not comprised of muslim fundamentalists, but 'playboys' and that they also participated in the OKC bombing and the first WTC attack."
Playboys? The American people were sold a story which claimed these were muslim fundamentalists, religous extremists, a claim that is muddied further by Mohamed Atta's ex-girlfriend, Amanda Keller's contention that during his flight school training at Huffman Aviation in Venice, Florida, Atta frequented strip bars, used coc aine and was apparently a hedonist. Amanda Keller was not named as witness to the 9-11 commission, and along with several otehr residents of the area later claimed to have been harassed and intimidated, by Florida Law Enforcement and FBI agents to prevent them from talking to the media.
Huffman Aviation....
It is interesting to note that one of the 9-11 comissioners was none other than Ben-Veniste, who defended Barry Seal, drug smuggler extraordinaire who ran coc aine into Mena AK on behalf of the famous Contras during the Bush era CIA's Iran Contra operations and was gunned down in his car with George Bush Sr. personal phone number on him. Bush actually owned Barry's plane for a while.
Also interesting to note that the flight school in question here, Huffman Aviation was owned by Wally Hillard, if that name doesn't ring a bell, then perhaps the largest Heroin bust in Florida history will....
This is a brief excerpt from a MUST READ article!

A Learjet belonging to the true owner of the Venice flight school that trained both terrorist pilots who flew into the World Trade Center was seized with more than 30 pounds of heroin onboard by Federal Agents in July of 2000 at the Orlando Executive Airport.

Authorities at the time called it the biggest seizure of heroin ever found in central Florida.

The seized plane belonged to 70-year old Wallace J. Hilliard of Naples, FL., multi-millionaire businessman, self-styled Mormon Bishop, and the newly-discovered secret owner of Huffman Aviation at the Venice Airport since its purchase in 1999, just months before terrorists began arriving in force in Southwest Florida.

Hilliard was already well-known in aviation circles as the 'money man' and deep-pocketed financial backer of Rudi Dekkers, according to local aviation observers like chief flight instructor Tom Hammersly, who taught at the Venice Airport while the two flight schools there experienced a flood of Arab student pilots.

"What we heard was that he (Dekkers) had somebody in Naples backing him financially. We all knew that the money he (Dekkers) flaunted was not even his money, that he was just a 'front' man for the man who had the money," stated Hammersly in an interview in "Mohamed Atta & the Venice Flying Circus."...
At the same time their planes were flying back and forth from Venezuela with illegal cargo Hilliard's charter service was also, unbelievably, being utilized at virtually no cost––despite the fact that rentals for Lear jets can run as high as $1,800 an hour––by Florida Governor Jeb Bush.

Even stranger, both Governor Jeb Bush and Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris were providing celebrity endorsements to Hilliard's operation well after the company's Lear (N351WB) had been busted by DEA agents armed with machine guns.

Stanley Hilton's Case against the US Government was dismissed, he was ridiculed, unfairly IMO, in the media and later was largely discredited for his contentions regarding the Planes not being civilian aircraft, but regardless of what you may or may not think of his 9-11 related work, that case brought the Huffman Air connections to 9-11 and Poppy Bush's CIA Narco-Corruption into the public eye for the first time since Oliver North, and tragicly, it was largely ignored by the American public who had already been sold on the Alqeda Story. If you know your JFK assasination research you will begin to realize something here about this whole story.

Sadly, I think Micheal Chertoff, who appallingly released the mossad agents and Israeli Spies who were caught red handed with explosives, large sums of cash and box cutters, the only real live suspects in the 9-11 attacks, said it best during his tenure as Assistant Attorney General, "Frankly, we can't differentiate between terrorism and organized crime and drug dealing. These groups don't hold themselves independently: they work with one another. Terrorists get engaged in drug activity. They have relationships with organized crime."

It's getting late, more to come...

posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 07:59 AM

Originally posted by twitchy
It is interesting to note that one of the 9-11 comissioners was none other than Ben-Veniste, who defended Barry Seal, drug smuggler extraordinaire who ran coc aine into Mena AK on behalf of the famous Contras during the Bush era CIA's Iran Contra operations and was gunned down in his car with George Bush Sr. personal phone number on him. Bush actually owned Barry's plane for a while.

Just a quick notation to my previous post as I wanted to add the fact that Ben-Veniste was also one of the Watergate Prosecutors, if you know your conspiracy theories you will find this intriguing or at least interesting given his background and ties to Barry Seal and the whole Huffman Aviation thing, if you really dig this stuff goes all the way back to the JFK assasination.

posted on Jun, 4 2010 @ 04:52 PM
Please proceed, I'm sure many of the old posters here, are following the build-up of your highly interesting time line with utmost interest.
I surely do.

Here are some useful sites for your research, sometimes they become forgotten while wading through so much new material.

I highly appreciate Paul Thompson and his staff's site, which is luckily still online :
The site's Complete 911 Timeline :

However, many of the solid discoveries by 911 researchers, like the Architects for Truth WTC7 free fall finding; the North of CITCO-gas station flight path by the Pentagon attack plane that submerged from the CIT team interviews; and many more solid proofs of interference by parts of the US and other governments, are not to be found in their 911 Timeline, since they opted for newspaper, TV and other media outlets linkage.

Do not forget to use the Internet Archive to find back outdated web pages, linked to in older ATS threads : Their Million Book Project always had some very good background information :

Another Internet Archive provider, the International School of Information Science (ISIS) :
Their Movies archive :
Their TV archive :

posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 04:02 AM
I appreciate the links, I've been trying to make the time to expand on this thread and it's not an easy task but it's something that I feel desperately needs to be done because the unfortunate reality is that, as time passes and memories fade in the wake of new events, we tend to loose focus and information often vanishes from the internet as quickly as it arrives, particularly in regards to the events of Sept. 11.
One major problem I'm running into in reviewing alot of the old threads here is that the links to articles and web sites are now dead which makes it exceedingly difficult to follow up on them, so sites like and are invaluable tools.
Another complication is the sheer amount of information involved, for example, Atif Ahmed, Barakat Yarkas, Zacarias Moussaoui, Said Chedadi, Abu Qatada, Saeed Sheikh, Abu Zubaida, Omar Nasiri, Jamal Zougam, Abu Walid, Rachid Ramda, Mustafa Setmarian Nasar, Abu Hamzaal-Masri, Jamal al-Fadl, Bisher al-Rawi, Abu Bashir, Ali Mohamed, Khaled Abu el-Dahab, Omar Abdul-Rahman, El Sayyid Nosair, Khalil Deek, Wadih El-Hage, Haroon Rashid Aswat... this is only to name a very few persons of interest in the murky world of East VS West intelligence operatives, and it's a pretty daunting task of sorting though all of it. They wouldn't have it any other way though.

For tonight's update, I want to expand on a thread started in 2003 by ATS member Peace, the thread is "Sept._11's_Smoking_Gun:_The Many_Faces_of_Saeed_Sheikh", and while it didn't manage to receive a single reply, I think he touched on the often overlooked connections between US, British, and Pakistani Intelligence agencies prior to the attacks of Sept. 11 and the subsequent cover ups in regards to the roles played by operatives of those agencies.

From the Thread...
A long time regional expert with extensive CIA ties stated publicly in March 2001 that "the CIA still has close links with the ISI," and repeated the claim to CNN in February 2002. [Times of India, 3/7/01, CNN, 2/27/02] An anonymous former senior ISI official has stated, "The biggest problem we have [in Pakistan] are the rogue elements in the intelligence agencies, especially those who at some time became involved with the CIA." [Christian Science Monitor, 2/22/02] At the very least, the ISI may know very embarrassing facts about the US. For instance, they may know a thing or two about CIA involvement in drug smuggling and/or support of bin Laden in the 1980s. [Star Tribune, 9/30/01, Atlantic Monthly, 5/96, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 9/23/01, UPI, 6/14/01] Unfortunately, Daniel Pearl was killed before he could investigate the connections between the US and the ISI, and no journalist seems willing to explore such dangerous subjects since his death.

Daniel Perl was a jewish journalist and dual citizen of both the US and Israel who worked for the Wall Street Journal serving as the South Asia Bureau Chief based in India. According to Wikipedia, in January 2002, Daniel Perl was kindnapped, allegedly, while en-route to an interview with Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani in Karachi while investigating the ties between the ISI, British and US Intelligence agencies.
Perl would later become infamous as the man who was beheaded in a video released by his captors, a group calling themselves "The National Movement for the Restoration of Pakistani Sovereignty" who claimed the Berg was a CIA agent and the video subsequently spurred a great deal of anti-islamic sentiment here in the US and abroad and fueled the public support of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
What largely escaped the main stream media is the very interesting fact that Nick Berg had went to Iraq in December and January and returned there in March of the same year supposedly looking for work as an electrical contractor to help build radio towers. An American journalist with an Israeli stamped passport wondering around in Iraq for months looking for electrical engineering jobs, he was arrested at a checkpoint in Mosul for 'suspicous activity'. In an attempt to secure his release, his family promptly filed a lawsuit April 5th claiming that Berg was being held illegally by the US Military. There are conflicting reports of his whereabouts during the two week period of his detention and both the US and Iraqi Police denied holding him, but he was released the next day on the 6th.
Beth Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, had emailed Berg's family stating that "I have confirmed that your son, Nick, is being detained by the U.S. military in Mosul. He is safe. He was picked up approximately one week ago. We will try to obtain additional information regarding his detention and a contact person you can communicate with directly." Two days after his release from US custody, his body was found, and on May 11, a very suspect video of his execution was released on a now defunct islamic site.
The video instills alot of emotional reactions from people, so I think it's important to note that I'm not mitigating the horrific nature of the video but it's important to this point to note that there were a number of questionable things about it that, to my recollection, that were never really addressed or explained. These anamolies include the references made in the video to the Abu Ghraib Prisoner abuse photos, which had not been released yet, the orange jump suit Berg was wearing being identical to the standard US issued prisoner suits in Guantonomo Bay which, at least in my mind, suggests that Berg wasn't released but transfered to the custody of his captors, his lack of movement and blood during the actual beheading, the chair Berg is seated in during his speech is allegedly the same chairs, as well as the walls and baseboards of the room he was in, that were seen at the Ghraib Prison, the audio appears to have been dubbed in post production, the ethnic origin of the captors was questioned as some of them appeared to have white hands and Al-Zarqawi lacked his prosthetic leg, a tatoo, his Jordanian accent and wore a gold ring which is frowned upon for men in Islamic Culture, and one of the men was allegedly armed with a Galil, an Israeli made version of the AK-47.
The anamolies in the video are important because the men responsible for his execution are the self same operatives that we find connected not only to Islamic Militants, but also to the ISI as well as British and US Intelligence.
Let's take a closer look at Saeed Sheikh...
Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh was arrested in Pakistan for his connection with the Nick Berg execution and sentenced to death. Prior to his involvement with the Nick Berg execution he had been arrested and imprisoned in India for his role in the 1994 kidnapping of western tourists in India. According to the Washington Post, the ISI paid his legal fees there from which he was released to the Taliban as part of a hostage neogitation and is currently, according to Wiki, being held in Pakistan.
He was raised primarily in London, and an alumni of the London School of Economics where he is said to have recruited students for the Islamic Fundamentalist cause. It is interesting to note that the former President of Pakistan, Musharraf, claimed that Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh was recruited by MI6 during his studies there and actually sent to the Balkans joining the Harkat ul-Ansar under the guise of the “Convoy of Mercy”. Aukai Collins would later claim that Harkat ul-Ansar was a terrorist organization funded by Alqeda and the US State Department added them to a growing list of terrorists.
Sounds like a double agent to me, confirmed if by nothing else, the fact that, according to CNN, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh sent $100,000 to Mohammed Atta just prior to the attacks of Sept. 11 and Atta returned several thousands of those dollars back to Saeed Sheikh. Oddly enough, the 9-11 Commission claimed the source of those funds as unknown and the FBI speculates that the source of those funds was Gen. Mahmud Ahmed, who by amazing cooincidence, was meeting with US Senate Intelligence officials the morning of the attacks. According to the Pittsburgh Tribune, not only was this guys working with the ISI, and MI6, but was also believed by many in Musharraf's administration, to be working with the CIA as well.
Richard Perl was investigating these connections, when he wasn't wondering around Iraq looking for electrical contracting work that is, and Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh is just one little facet in a tangled web of intelligence operatives involved directly with the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks. It isn't too far of a stretch to suggest that Nick Berg stumbled into a story that would have blown the lid off some very nasty dealings between these intelligence networks and was killed by them rather than some Pakistani Liberation group as was reported by the mainstream media.
How do these different intelligence groups all end up in the same bed?
In a word, BCCI.
I am quickly running out of room on this post, please check out the link above, and while you're reading it, keep in mind that George Bush, head of the CIA for god knows how long, and Bill Clinton shared the same lawyer in the famous BCCI scandal.
Oh the tangled webs they weave.
Thanks for reading, more to come...

[edit on 16-6-2010 by twitchy]

posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 04:56 AM

Originally posted by LaBTop
Please proceed, I'm sure many of the old posters here, are following the build-up of your highly interesting time line with utmost interest.
I surely do.

I'm just glad somebody's reading it

(this is not a one line post)

posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 02:32 PM

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by LaBTop
Please proceed, I'm sure many of the old posters here, are following the build-up of your highly interesting time line with utmost interest.
I surely do.

I'm just glad somebody's reading it

(this is not a one line post)

I agree...this is great. I have rarely seen the standard ATS level of paranoia, the "I don't know so I'll just make stuff up" and the lack of evidence-based conclusions combined in such a seamless narrative.

Well done.

posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 02:49 PM
This is great Twitchy! You're the man!

You have possibly renewed my interest to discuss 9/11 on this forum, which up until now had ceased due to the over abundance of resident trolls.

Hopefully we can all learn a lesson from this by remembering that we must remember to check our egos at the door, particularly when seeking the truth!

Great Thread

[edit on 16-6-2010 by OnTheFelt]

[edit on 16-6-2010 by OnTheFelt]

posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 04:46 PM

Originally posted by twitchy
there is a growing problem on the 9-11 forum that needs to be dealt with. I can't really identify specifically when or how it started, but for the last two years or so ATS has seen an influx of a really nasty crowd of these so called 'debunkers'. People who have no interest in discussion or debate, no inclination towards research or learning new information, they are here simply to cause grief, hamper progress and obfuscate or derail threads. Whatever their motives, be it the intentional efforts of agent provacatuers, or just people who lack the decorum to demonstrate civility, they have caused a terrible weakening of the ATS fabric and a great rift in this community. They offer nothing to this forum but insults and generalizations, I'm utterly sick of it and I've decided to do something about it.

This part above is the meat of the matter. I could tell you the name of every person that you're talking about. They come to ATS and the 9/11 forum to "debunk", spread their negativity, name-call, attack, be rude, etc.

There was supposed to be this new "invigoration" that was to make the 9/11 forum a better place to read and post. That lasted for about 2 weeks, then it's like the mods abandoned the forum. It seems like ever since the ATS Live radio show started, the 9/11 forum has just been abandoned after the brief crack-down.

I, too, am sick of the few people that are still allowed to post here. And some of them have multiple accounts. I've reported the attacks, I've reported the people which appear to have multiple accounts. Nothing happens.

On top of that, they don't participate anywhere else on ATS/BTS. Most of them post strictly in the 9/11 forum and post nothing but attacks and "debunks". That automatically tells you that there is an agenda in progress. They are agents, provocateurs, and they are agenda-driven. There are no two-ways about it.

Maybe that's why ATS doesn't do anything about them. Maybe ATS has been told that these agents will post here and it's non-negotiable. We have no idea why these handful of people are still allowed to post here. But I'm at the point where I'm done using the "Alert" feature for now and all but done posting here for the time being.

I just can't stand having a good day and then coming to this forum and reading the attacks, name-calling, rudeness, and negativity coming from this handful of agent provocateurs.

So, thank you, Twitchy, for this thread and the info you're bringing to it. I will be following it.


[edit on 16-6-2010 by _BoneZ_]

posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 06:25 PM

Originally posted by OnTheFelt
You have possibly renewed my interest to discuss 9/11 on this forum, which up until now had ceased due to the over abundance of resident trolls.

Awesome, mission accomplished then.

The purpose of this thread is exactly that, hopefully to renew some much needed interest in the topic and create a self-evident focus of research into the events of Sept. 11, without the incessant assaults from the 9-11 forum trolls, spooks, and mooks. I don't mean to sound haughty when I say I intend to ignore them in this thread, but all too often they bring such a distraction to our discussions here that the information gets tangled up in emotional and irrelevant arguements. We can not afford to allow that level of infiltration to distract us from our ultimate goal of bringing this to the surface because, IMO, truth is not a political ideaology, and it's supression is the reaction of those who have a vested interest in keeping it hidden.
ATS has an incredible wealth of related information here that is gathering dust and collecting refuse, and I wanted to do something about it... if nothing else, than to examine some of that information in-depth and hopefully to create a compendium of critical analysis. The lack of replies was a bit worrisome at first, the amount of time invested in taking on this project is daunting and something that honestly with my financial situation being what it is, was a tough decision to make. But I feel, very strongly, that this topic is incredibly important to all of us, and if I can make just a ripple in the pond, and make somebody stop and think long enough to realize how deep this rabbit hole is, then it's not wasted time at all.
Futility is an emotion, one which I have decided to discard and present this thread regardless of it's outcome, that said though, it is encouraging to see it is being read, and I thank you guys for that.

In June of 2003, ATS member Killuminati posted a thread entitled 9/11 commission memebers are being investigated for role in 9-11 which references an article in the New York Times, 2 on 9/11 Panel Are Questioned on Earlier Security Roles. The thread only received one reply but I feel it's an important one because the referenced article is from a reputable source and it outlines and goes into some detail regarding the potential conflicts of interest surrounding two of the 9-11 Commission member's involvement in the so-called investigation.
Before I continue, I think it's crucial for folks to understand that this was not a hearing, this was not a tribunal, this was not a criminal proceeding, hell it wasn't even an inquiry, officially the commision's purpose was said to be "chartered to prepare a full and complete account of the circumstances surrounding the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, including preparedness for and the immediate response to the attacks. The Commission is also mandated to provide recommendations designed to guard against future attacks". So many folks seem to have gotten the impression that this commission was an investigation, it wasn't. It was an entity created to provide a narrative, and make reccomendations based upon that narrative in order to help shape foreign and domestic counter-terrorism policy. One can easily argue as well, after seeing the commission's selective hearings and the policies that were implemented there-after, that their real purpose was to appease the public outcry for criminal proceedings, supress some of the key details that might have suggested the collusion of our own intelligence operatives in the attack, and provide a conceptual framework for building a much more empowered Federal set of mandates at the expense of the constitutional rights of it's constituency. That said, any conflict of interest, whatsoever, calls into question not only their true purpose, but their findings as well.
From the Article...

Correction Appended
WASHINGTON, Jan. 14— The executive director of the independent commission investigating the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks has become a witness in the inquiry and has been interviewed by his own staff about his involvement in shaping the Bush administration's early counterterrorism strategy, officials said on Wednesday.

In addition, one of the 10 commissioners on the panel, a deputy attorney general in the Clinton administration, was also interviewed this week. The unusual dual roles of the director, Philip D. Zelikow, and the commissioner, Jamie S. Gorelick, have raised fresh questions about potential conflicts of interest in the commission, which has been dogged by concerns about its independence since it was created in 2002....
Mr. Zelikow declined to be interviewed about the issue because of commission policy, Mr. Felzenberg said. Commission officials said they did not believe that his role as a witness would impede the investigation because he had removed himself from decisions or oversight involving his work on the transition team. But the general counsel is continuing to examine the terms of his recusal to determine whether it goes far enough to avoid any possible conflicts, officials said....
In addition, Ms. Gorelick, one of the 10 commissioners to whom Mr. Zelikow reports, said she had been interviewed this week about her involvement in terrorism policy. She was the top deputy in the mid-90's to Attorney General Janet Reno. Like Mr. Zelikow, she has also recused herself from dealings involving decisions in which she was involved.

Officials said Ms. Gorelick and two other commission members had also withdrawn from involvement in aviation issues because their law firms had airlines as clients. A handful of other staff members besides Mr. Zelikow have recused themselves from specific areas, as well, because of past positions.

Mr. Zelikow and Ms. Gorelick are the sole commission officials known to have been interviewed. They are also the only two commission officials with wide access to highly classified White House documents.

At first glance, it sounds pretty benign, simple conflicts of interest which were said to be nessecary evils because the Commission needed levels of expertise in counter-terrorism and foriegn policy which made it difficult to select members who wouldn't have some inherent conflict. Well, I call that a load of Horse Poop, and it got me to wondering about what conflicts of interest specifially these people had, so let's take a look shall we?

Philip D. Zelikow, not to be confused with Daniel M. Zelikow, is an interesting and very connected person, academic, author, and an American Diplomat who served as the executive director of the 9-11 Commission and a personal friend and former subordinate of Condoleezza Rice. Interestingly the man's thesis in College was said to be on "Creating Public myths" and his expertise and interests seemed to steer him towards a career in National Security interests early on during the Reagan Administration and from the mid-1980's on he became one of the Who's Who in American Foriegn policy and National Security and his involvement ranges from being a professor of national security affairs at the Naval Postgraduate School to holding a seat on George Bush Sr.'s National Security Council. He would later also serve on George W. Bush's transition team because he was, according to Karen Hughes, one of the world's foremost experts on Alqeda and he also was given an assumably influential position within the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board.
One of the more interesting positions he held before his appointment to the 9-11 commission was as executive director of the Apsen Strategy Group, or the Markle Task Force on National Security who's members included Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, and Condoleezza Rice as well as co-authoring of a very interesting piece entitled "Catastrophic Terrorism, Imagining the Transformative Event" in 1998 for "Foriegn Affairs" (which is a publication of the Council on Foreign Relations, by the way) prior to 9-11, serving as the executive director of the 9-11 Commission, this guy was in a unique position to determine what would and would not be heard by the commission, and as such was directly responsible for the ommissions of crucial, and arguably damning testimony from Firefighters and First Responders on the scene during the Sept. 11 attacks, America, at least in the context of the commission's findings, would not hear about the various reports of secondary explosions, the impossible technical aspects of the collapse of WTC 7, or a myriad of other pertinent information including the perjury of NORAD and really, god only knows what else and not to mention was directly resonsible for excluding the work of the agents involved in Able Danger from surfacing in the report.

I'm running out of room on this post again, but for more information on Zelikow, I'd suggest watching this video...

More to come...

[edit on 16-6-2010 by twitchy]

posted on Jun, 16 2010 @ 07:52 PM
reply to post by _BoneZ_

I know it sounds crazy but I miss some of the old school debunkers that used to post on the 9-11 forum. Guys like Howard Roark were stubborn opponents but in debating with them, it was always an intellectual challenge and they brought up alot of points and sources that folks could learn from on either side of the fence. I had alot of respect for that, indeed I enjoyed it, but the latest innundation of knuckleheads, is a whole different species of 'debunkers', and their tactics are a pretty blatant smear campaign who offer little more than insults and generalizations. Some of it is intentional of course, while some of it is just people who legitimately don't know anything beyond the stereotype that is created for them to discredit us.
ATS, IMO, cannot filter members who post here based on their opinions and areas of interest alone, I think that would set a dangerous precendent for the site, but it isn't difficult to recognise the perps and with a little patience and alot of facts, is isn't difficult to send them scurrying either. The trick, I think, is not letting them crawl around in your ego, and keep in mind that alot of them have been brought up to believe that the very word 'conspiracy' implies that we're all paranoid nut jobs who chase UFO's and Big Foots while wearing our tin foil hats to keep the man off our frequency.
It's not entirely their fault, the dumbing down has been marvelously effective, and the media drones on and on with their stereotypes... the only solution really is to prove them wrong. Just to give a personal example, I grew up in a very racist environment, largely thinking that all black people were bitter or lazy, not something I'm proud of, but when I actually got out into the world and began to interract with these people, I got a really good lesson in reality and found out that most people are just that, people, and I made some of the best friends and family I've ever had because of the ability to look beyond my preconceptions. Some folks never make it past a preconception, your brain is literally wired not to. Take a look at this video and it will give you an idea of how powerful the notion of preconception is... you're brain literally will not let you see that as a hollow space. Now imagine how powerful the media really is, as it's job is to literally create and manufacture these preconceptions.
Conspiracy theorists are no different really, I don't have some secret agenda and I'm not getting paid to post this stuff, I'm just an average person who got sick of watching G W Bush smirk one day lol.

posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:44 AM
Expanding on my previous examination of Killuminati's post regarding the New York Times article, Jamie S. Gorelick was also named as one of the 9-11 Commission members who had a signifigant conflict of interest. While hardly as intriguing or perhaps as nefarious a conflict of interest as that of Philip D. Zelikow, it is an important facet of the workings of this commission because her prior actions had arguably led directly to the lack of communication between the various intelligence agencies and law enforcement, the 'Red Tape' which took so much blame during the 'investigation' of the Sept. 11 attacks.
Jamie S. Gorelick, a Harvard graduate who litigated for a prestigous Washington DC lawfirm, she also worked as an assistant to the Secretary of Energy in 1979-1980. Amung her various positions and titles, interestingly she also served as president of the District of Columbia Bar in 1992 and 1993 and it seems that during the Clinton Administration, her career skyrocketed, and she was the general counsel for the Defense Department where she was credited with helping to structure the Defense Department's consolidation of the entire defense industry and Vice Chaired the Task Force on the Audit, Inspection and Investigation Components of the Department of Defense (the guys that lost a trillions dollars just prior to 9-11). She also served as Deputy Attorney General during the Clinton administration and is credited with being one of the longest serving Deputy attorney generals in the history of that position. She also co-chaired President Clinton's Advisory Committee to the Presidential Commission on Critical Infrastructure Protection and a member of was a member of the Commission on Science and Security at the Department of Energy.
(Later on she would also serve as Vice Chairman of the Fannie Mae Mortgage Association during the 10 Billion dollar accounting scandal and during her four years there, according to OFHEO, managed to get herself paid $26,466,834 which is ironic as she now co-chairs the American Bar Association's Commission on Legal Ethics lol).
A recipient of several awards as well, interestingly, that include the 1997 Director of Central Intelligence Award, the 1994 Secretary of Defense Distinguished Service Award, the ADL Leon and Marilyn Klinghoffer Memorial Foundation Award, and the 1999 American Jewish Committee Judge Learned Hand Award.
Now here's the kicker...
She was also apparently a member of the CIA's National Security Advisory Panel and sat on Bush's Review of Intelligence Committee and is currently a member of the Council on Foriegn Relations.

Jamie Gorelick was appointed to the 9-11 Commission by Tom Daschle, the media tended to largely ignore the fact that she had a conflict of interest that should have prevented her from being on that Commission but there she sat, recusing herself from the 'investigations' of the intelligence failures which was said to have directly prevented the FBI from investigating Zacarias Moussaoui.
What's all the fuss about? In 1995, Gorelick's Memo, entitled "Instructions on Separation of Certain Foreign Counterintelligence and Criminal Investigations" essentially created a wall between the intelligence agencies and domestic law enforcement and prevented guys like John O'Neil from further investigating the Alqeda operatives in the United States and supressed information from FBI agents like Sibel Edmonds. A wall which was described by John Ashcroft as being "the single greatest structural cause for September 11 was the wall that segregated criminal investigators and intelligence agents[,]" and that Gorelick "built that wall through a March 1995 memo." In her defense, Gorelick basicly called Ashcroft a liar, but there's a great response to Gorelick's defense to these accusations written by Andrew C. McCarthy here.
Now why would anyone want to create such a wall unless it was to protect our own active intelligence assets or, more likely, those of a country we're allied with? Assets that we're led to believe would pull off the most horrific terror attack in history. And if she was responsible for the rift between these agencies, then in short, Jamie S. Gorelick had no business being on the 9-11 commission, at least not any business that would be of any benefit to anyone except for the intelligence community.
I guess we should have just been glad that Kissinger stepped down from serving on the commission and take what we got.

Thanks again for reading, more to come...

[edit on 17-6-2010 by twitchy]

posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 07:21 AM

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Maybe that's why ATS doesn't do anything about them. Maybe ATS has been told that these agents will post here and it's non-negotiable. We have no idea why these handful of people are still allowed to post here. But I'm at the point where I'm done using the "Alert" feature for now and all but done posting here for the time being.

LOL...yeah, that's it. ATS was "told" by the NWO Handlers that they "will" allow the agents to post.

"We know where you live", the ATS mods were told. "We know where your kids go to school. We can cancel every credit card you have, every license you have, we can negate every vestige of reality you think you own in this world. You'll be worse off than Will Smith in "Enemy of the State"

"You *will* let our agents post." Mwahahahahaha....!

Beautiful. Is there any *further* question of why, when the computer is shut off, this "Truth" movement disappears? Intellectual integrity? The application of critical thinking skills? A firm grasp of reality? A logical approach to the questions of the day? The JEWS did it! Destructo-space-based laser beams. Pods. Missiles. Invisible planes. Elvis. UFOs. Chemtrails. Bombs. Squibs. Explosives *built into the structure* 25 years prior. Nano--no, wait -- Super-duper-DOUBLE-dog-ultra-sekrit Nano thermite!

What's next?

posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 07:36 AM
reply to post by _BoneZ_

I post only here, I'm not a Truther - although I don't believe that the government has in any way told the truth about 9/11. I try not to be rude, and although I'm routinely insulted I do try to examine in a logical way some of the claims of the Truth movement.

The fact that I have yet to find any merit in any of them doesn't mean I should be banned just to protect your fragile sensibilities.

posted on Jun, 17 2010 @ 12:15 PM

Originally posted by twitchy
... we're all paranoid nut jobs who chase UFO's and Big Foots while wearing our tin foil hats to keep the man off our frequency.

And...that pretty much sums it up.

...the only solution really is to prove them wrong.

The real world is still waiting for any of you to "prove them wrong". What do we get? The previously-mentioned invisible airplanes and holograms and super sekrit nano-thermite and laser beans and directed energy weapons and Blame the Jews! It is *comical* really is funny. You all have become nothing but a caricature - a ribald homunculus of a joke. Bush did it! The Jews did it! The military was stood down! They didn't NEED to gut the building to bring it down because they used a brand new secret procedure to demolish a 1,200 story building!

What do we get? Nothing. No intellectual direction, no intellectual heft, nothing based on anything resembling reality. I love how all you people, when you find a big ol' gap in your theory, you just make something up to fill in that gap. Nothing related to reality, no need to adhere to any shred or thread of reality. just make up whatever you want that'll fit in that gap. Often times it is a two-birds-with-one-stone deal - The Jews! A Two-fer! 1) accuse the Jews and 2) plant a subliminal seed for people to hate Israel.


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