Why do People who Ridicule Conspiracy Threorists Hang out in 911 Forums and on ATS?

reply to post by Shaun1111

there are paid shills..

I highly doubt that.

I'm not sure I believe that ALL skeptics are out to assist in muddying the waters or are protecting some agency from retribution. There may be some on here... that is too easy to say in my opinion.
However, I do believe that many people lost someone very dear to them in 9/11 or knew someone who did and were greatly affected by the event. I could be wrong but at the very least... having an answer of "terrorists" being responsible was in a way a scab for the wound. Something to grab onto in a tumultuous time.
By proposing that this "answer" may be wrong and that there may be some sort of deceit involved by the very people we put ourselves and loved ones security in, as well as those who we put in place to find out the real answers as to what happened... is like peeling off the scab that never really healed and becomes agitated and infected.
So there is anger, and resentment. There is denial. There are outbursts and weeping. Things get aggravated and become sore.
I think for some people, it is merely that they had "an answer"... and that although it was hard to get used to accepting it, ultimately ended up accepting it to some extent because at such a traumatic time in their lives it was the only answer to grab onto...
So when someone comes walking in, especially after a long period of time and says "No, what you've been believing all this time is wrong... it may be this!", it starts the cycle of grief and helplessness all over again.
There is no easy answer that I can see. Just treat each other better. Try to delicately remind them why you still seek for a better answer. This wound is still quite fresh for most and like it or not... we are all still brothers and sisters. We all want the same things and for the moment... we are all we have in this world.
Keep looking for answers... but remember why we do it.


[edit on 16-9-2009 by Numb2itall]

I am a "Conspiracy Theorist Critic". I come to ATS for find 'possible' answers to themes, which I have an interest in personally. Its not my fault that I find subjective interpretation turned into an illusion of fact. I was hoping to find some 'solid' evidence to prove UFOs or other phenomenon existed; however, I have only found a religious sect of believers who dismiss logic. You can show these people 100% proof their interpretation is wrong, and they will reject it because it doesn't fit their narrative.

Healthy skepticism is key to rationality. Blind faith is ignorance in the sight of facts.

Conspiracy theorist have become religious in nature, and it is blinding them from accepting logical answers.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Pathos]

Originally posted by Shaun1111
Why do People who Ridicule Conspiracy Threorists Hang out in 911 Forums and on ATS?

there are paid shills..

iv'e noticed more of them this year.

wow. I did not know this.....where is my paycheck...I've been lied too.

Must be a conspiracy to withhold information from me.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Shaun1111

 

there are paid shills..

I highly doubt that.

I think in 2004, that on Huffingtonpost.com, a lot of people from an Air Force IP address, were heaping the "conspiracy theory" charge on people claiming the WMD charge was groundless.


Companies pay people to blog, twitter and post comments that "set the record straight" or promote their company. There are webinar classes on this if you want to find one.

So why not a corrupt government?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Shaun1111

 

there are paid shills..

I highly doubt that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Jezus

Originally posted by vehemes terra eternus
reply to post by jthomas

 

I struggle to see how anyone can believe the OS of the Pentagon. Especially someone who is a member of ATS that has so much factual information at their fingertips.......

This easier answer is that they don't really believe the OS and are just debating for some other reason...........

It is very difficult to believe a person who actually did research could believe the official story.

The more complex answer is that people are is a state of denial.

The idea that the official TV news would be misleading is a scary and disturbing thought to some people.

People have their preconceived notions and make assumptions based on speculation in order rationalize the evidence to fit what everyone else thinks.

The ironic thing is that people think that majority belief or "officialness" is actually evidence.

Just look at the pictures of the pentagon or shanksville...if someone didn't tell you would you have ever thought a plane might be involved?

-some people are too sensitive to criticism of their 'theories'
-some people are on here looking at one issue and find themselves browsing others (that they may not believe)
-and i do believe that some are paid...shills. not all, and its unfair to automatically call someone on the board one (ever) because no one could really know if another user were or not.
but for those who believe in these conspiracies and that big brother is watching (and out to get us) you *have* to believe that some people are on the internet to discredit and otherwise derail discussion of sensitive info. like a lot of discussions here are.

I watched the National Geographics look at 911. No matter what the scientific experiments performed to discredit their theories showed, and that is all the truthers have, theory, the truthers rejected them. They were shown beams warping and twisting under heat from jet fuel, they were shown how thermite paint could not cut steel beams, and they rejected this information. All that can be concluded is that there will be a lifetime belief in something that can never be proven or dis proven. Reading comments to news stories and the YouTube video of Charlie Sheen would make you think that his credibility has saved the truther movement, and this will lead to progress.

My interest in this site was sparked by quite vivid UFO dreams I have had in my life time. Usually the dream is I am outside at night and mass formations of UFOs start appearing, usually heading from north to south. These dreams were very lucid and there were no reasons to have them such as the result of watching some science fiction. Occasionally the formations changed directions like west to east. It was hard to describe the craft other than they were silvery in color. One dream I had with these formations had a black craft appear. It stood out as not like the formations I was seeing. In my dream I focused on the black craft and saw USAF on the side. The dreams with the formations diminished after the USAF dream. This was years ago. I occasionally have the formations dream, but it is rarer. These dreams have kept my interest in UFOs alive. So I check in here to read the latest on the subject.

I would find it hard to believe that the US does not have an orbital aircraft tucked away at Area 51. I wonder what happened to the Lockheed guy that was on here predicting big news this fall, and wonder if this would be it, revelation of an orbital aircraft. It seems other programs have been cancelled for orbiting vehicles to service the space station.

Unfortunately certain individuals do pay people to go on the internet and attempt to discredit conspiracy theorists with insults, bullying, and eventually threats. Not all OS believers are shills... in fact, not even a lot of them are... but there are definitely shills here who seem to have a, lets call it pathological, desire to push their agenda without any regard for evidence and decent debate.

However, in the information age we have people who are paid to go on the internet, act like a 'normal person', and stealth market products to people. Anyone who has done SEO knows what I am talking about. The only difference here is that the product being 'sold' is an idea rather than a physical thing.

In my opinion though, not all shills are paid, but many are. Some people become so closed minded and unable to consider opposing viewpoints that their ability to logically consider new ideas becomes obliterated. These people don't care about evidence and only want to discredit others.

The way this works is that people identify with a cause, and then want to promote the cause to others at all cost. No evidence will shake them because it will not change their minds one way or another about what is right and that is the end of discussion. For instance, many people believe that they are protecting national security interests by protecting the names and reputations of certain individuals or organizations. Once they take up the cross of trying to discredit a so-called 'opposing' group at all costs, they become agenda-motivated and their bias becomes obvious.

Sometimes people just like to point the finger which is a sad thing, but generally if you are participating in the discussion in a rational, classy way and are willing to look at and consider evidence posted by others instead of ignoring it, you will not be called a shill.

If, however, certain people are only interested in throwing around insults, ignoring evidence, and refusing to respond to well thought out replies of others, then in my opinion they are a shill whether they like it or not. What difference does it make?

Originally posted by CaptainAmerica2012


Its been proven that people in the government or in the forces do and are forced to come to these forums and protect the interests of certain groups or agencies.

Uhm... supporting evidence please? Or should I just take your word for it?

Originally posted by Albastion
Unfortunately certain individuals do pay people to go on the internet and attempt to discredit conspiracy theorists

You mean people get PAID for this!?!?!?

Where can I sign up? Because I'm on ATS A LOT! And all it does it take money OUT of my pocket....


Geesh, who knew there was a good deal out there where you could get PAID to do this.

Maybe the Truthers are being paid too?

I believe this thread has exposed the greatest of all conspiracies. The conspiracy to destroy a movement by harassing and discrediting it. THEY no longer need to pay people to supress us THEY simply use the ignorance of the general population to wear us out. If any of you saw the Larry King footage of Bill Nye trying to debunk a group of ex government whistle blowers or the other footage of the PRO debunker trying to rip some military witnesses over the Rendlesham farm incident by using a nasty hostile tone and insisting, almost commanding these guys to admit they're liars then you will know what I mean.
one man, a family friendly bowtie wearing media giant and the other, a 50 something year old bully.
And who can forget Fox News on Edgar Mitchell's story. I'm glad he shut them up.
A world run by bullies. Are we going to be victims?

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry
reply to post by Doomsday 2029

 

You pretty much proved my previous post to be accurate.

Why sheep? Because many individuals disagree with you? We have our opinions and you simply have yours.

It's a conspiracy theory website. Not everything on here is reality or true. And that includes the WTC being brought down by explosives. But we'll leave it at that

BTW---Those who actually reply with constructive posts to back up 9/11 "truth" are actually educational and informative.

But by calling others "sheep" because they disagree with your OPINION only makes you not very....intelligent...nor a good debaters.

I can only speak for myself, but I have no problem calling all the "debunkers" sheep. In my mind there are three types of people:

1. People who are asleep
These are the people that are not aware of the mountain of evidence, I repeat... THE MOUNTAIN OF EVIDENCE, regarding 9/11. I've spoken to many people that have no clue that this information exists on the internet, nor are they aware that a 9/11 truth movement even exists. Basically these people are just uninformed about the situation.


2. People that are SHEEP
These people drive me insane. They have reviewed the mountain of evidence, and are still convinced that this was the work of Osama Bin Laden. I don't know how that's possible. It's almost as if you have sold your soul to the Government and the USA is your God. It's some sort of psychological voice working inside the brain that tells you Evil like this doesn't exist within our own country.

How do you not come to the conclusion that the official story is complete bull $hit after you have reviewed the evidence? Because Popular Mechanics said so? Well David Ray Griffin destroyed Popular Mechanics in his new book, so there isn't much "debunking" left to do. Yes... You are a sheep and the Government is your shepherd if you have reviewed all the EVIDENCE regarding the attacks of 9/11 and still come to the conclusion that the Official Story is the truth.

3. People who don't give a $*IT

This is a different kind of animal, one that is too caught up in Football, Drinking, Money, Fashion, Cars, Women, and all the luxuries of the world to even be concerned with 9/11. Even after reviewing the evidence, they really don't even care if it was an inside job or not... But they certainly aren't closed minded enough to suggest that there is no way in hell the 9/11 was an inside job like CameronFox. These people aren't out to defend the the 9/11 Commission Report like it's the Holy Bible.



So if you aren't apart of the 9/11 truth movement... which person are you?

because they dont have life, or because they are paid to do this ... either way, it is sad

I'll bash on the occasional truther whack job, but like reading about news and the paranormal. Its all different forms of entertainment to me, the others are probably the same.

Here's something to prove the intellegence community knew about or theorized about a plot to attack the US with commercial planes. Tom Clancy's Debt of Honor.
Was reading this about 6 months prior to 9/11. In the end, a vengeful JAL pilot smashes his plane into the Capitol building killing congress and the Prez. Also The bad guys hire a hacker to hax out the WTC.
So when 9/11 happened some guy calls into a Tv station claiming it was revenge for Hiroshima. Also a statement comes out from Bin Laden applauding the effort but also denying involvement. Now i'm in SE asia when this all happened. And I'm watching Channel News Asia.
Inside job? hmm.. Someone knew and they let it happen.

Instances of Agent Provocateurs in the past

ACLU wants probe into police-staged DNC protest

New York Police Covertly Join In at Protest Rallies

The motto of the US Air Force (according to their website)

The mission of the United States Air Force is to fly, fight and win...in air, space and cyberspace.

'Winning' in cyberspace is in reference to their PSYOPS program... which appears to be fairly active right now.

My Opinion:

I think it all comes down to fear.

Fear of what?
Fear that all these conspiracies or only one, just one that the mass says its impossible those guys talking about that are nut jobs just comes out true.

What would happen then?
They would start thinking well if that came out to be true and the mass was wrong then what else can be true in all of these threads?

But why do they come here?
I think they come here because they too want to fight for their beliefs. They too want to be heros. (like most of us wanting the truth but its not for the fame , when I said hero you know what I mean to help the world wake up) They dont know how to helpthe mass and if the mass is said to be the sane ones well they will join their ranks and fight on their side.

As some here already said it some times they dont even have a clue or havent even read most pots in the thread and just come out competelly ignorant, why? Simple they are not intrested byt the facts by the truth.

They just want to be on the sane side of population as this is the mass belief.

What they should do is if you got a point, a fact, a story to prove us wrong. Then prove it to us just like you were doing research when you were in school. is that really simple? Why the names and all, Fear my friends fear.

My personal belief is that most part of humanity is being controled in various ways for some reason. The most plausible is to keep the rich rich and the poor poor. Once you tasted power and money you dont want to lose it all.

So Fear and the need to follow the main stream ideas to prove your own sanity to yourself. Anyone recognises himself

but for you debunkers Cant wait to see your faces when just one of these theories comes out to be true. that moment will be priceless for myself and probably most of us here. Then just then maybe we can all talk togheter and make some constructive research to help the entire cause, the truth.


Believe me brothers when I say im perfectly sane and dont need anyone in this world to tell me. If I would come out to be the one thats insane then let me be because Im happier in my own insanity then realizing I could live in yours. One day it will all come out ....

[edit on 16-9-2009 by NIGHTRID3R]

reply to post by CaptainAmerica2012


Originally ATS was very anti-911truth, so really you are playing in others sandbox who were here before you. We did not come here to harass you guys, its actually quite the opposite. I'll tell you the truth in what happened.

Before Catherders infamous thread, there was an even older thread about 911. Back in those days you had several very sharp skeptics, some aviation folks, and even one of the site owners (who had a relative at the pentagon that day) who pretty much took the theories apart. Then came the Catherder (who I always suspected was the same site admin, though I cannot prove it) thread. ATS was obviously cutting into someones 911-truth sales, and suddenly that thread started to get spammed by tons of pro-911 truthers. This went on for quite awhile, until Lear showed up. At that point, the admin, who were obviously aware of the hits being generated by the topic, and were in negotiations to incorporate, backed off their stance on the subject.

I even had a U2U showing how they were aware of Johns flip-flopping on the subject on another board. On that board John not only stated how easily that it could have been done, but also gave a step-by-step of exactly how. This came up the same time that I was picking apart that john could not answer basic aviation questions I posed to him on the board. I was politely asked to back off on him because they thought something was odd.

….But you see...
conspiracy theories sell, not facts!
John brought an even bigger following, and generated more hits with his antics.

So the hard, cold, truth is that I cannot come to this site now (fracken 8 years later), to read things I actually have an interest in, without getting smacked in the face by the 911-truth cult on the “Recent Posts” page... And let me tell you the majority of people in general, as well as the majority of aviation professionals do not agree with the truth movement (heck truthers cannot even agree with each other). ATS was always a site with tough skeptics, hence the “Deny Ignorance” tag, you guys invaded our turf, not the other way around...

And that my friend is the “Truth”...

Originally posted by CaptainAmerica2012

Why do People who Ridicule Conspiracy Threorists Hang out in 911 Forums and on ATS?

To educate you about reason, evidence, the scientific method, and ask you to demonstrate your claims, take your blinders off, take your fingers out of your ears, and show you why you have made no progress in 8 years.

We've helped a lot of people.