Were The Terrorists Right All Along?

Originally posted by breakingdradles
JUST TO START OFF, I DESPISE WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO OUR TROOPS!!!

I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING THE ACTIONS OF THESE PEOPLE AT ALL!!!

I'M MERELY POINTING OUT THE FACT THAT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA AGREES WITH THEM ON MANY TOPICS TODAY, ie FAUX News, CNN, ATS ect.

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[edit on 14-9-2009 by breakingdradles]

FOUL!

That wasn't there when I originally posted. Then you belittle my post then do a very nice quick Edit job right after you started to get some heat. I like how you added that after the fact. I was seriously considering a good debate. I've lost all respect for you

Pathetic




[edit on 14-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

It's funny, I was just reading the translation of the latest tape and it occured to me - they're speaking to us. And then of course you wrote this so star and flag.

There is a down side to this. they are in my estimation implying that "WE" must take action against our Government as a way to qualify our opinion polls. This action would substantiate the governments position against its own populace however inaction will get us more of the same until they are ready to totally close their fist on us. This is a very precarious time we find ourselves in. I personally believe that TPTB are begging for a full on revolt which they will quell with the UN.

The media spin would be a fringe Right-Wing Extremist movement attempted to overthrow the Government. Many members have been rounded up but because of the over tasked Military and Law enfocement due to swine flu quarantines and bank runs and other economic calamity, it has been suggested that United Nations troops augment existing forces to quell this terrorist group.

On the other hand I fear inaction will lead to a complete loss of all liberty and total tyranny which would still lead to the above scenario.

One doesn't like to think about these things but I've come to the conclusion that a military coup may be the least tramatic answer to this conundrum.

Is this a sincere appeal to the American people or is it another nudge to get us to revolt and allowing the full force of the "Patriot Act" to be brought to bear. We must tread very carefully and seek guidance from Higher Places in my honest opinion.

I understand the point you are making in the OP, but it is kinda biased in favour of terrorists. You are incorrectly suggesting that terrorism did not exist before the USA invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. While those invasions did create more terrorists and hate towards the USA as a result, it is dishonest to say those invasions are the cause of terrorism as a whole.

Whether it stems from USA's support of Israel, disagreement with USA foreign policy or anti-Western sentiment, terrorism is a very real threat and has been for many years. There ARE people who wish to murder innocent people in the name of religion or ideology - not just for greed and power (TPTB).

While one cannot argue that the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq were massive and unforgivable mistakes, do remember that the vast majority of civilian casualties in these countries are due to insurgent rebels who carry out attacks in areas with high civilian populations. Think about it, Coalition forces would benefit greatly from stability, calm and non-violence and so would the Iraqi people. Insurgents know this and strive for the opposite effects because they do not care about the general Iraqi citizen.

Also remember that one nation's freedom fighter is another nation's terrorist. It comes down to how you define the word and which side of the fence you reside.

Originally posted by breakingdradles

Ummm... Yeah, if you believe the "official" story of 9/11 and 7/7

The government only lies about aliens right?

Yeah right, and I guess the evidence that authorities in SOCIALIST Spain found about the Islamic extremists planning the 9/11 attacks in Spain is also a lie, and they were in cahoots with the Bush administration?...

Spain's 11 September 'connection'

The start of Europe's largest trial of al-Qaeda members is the result of a long investigation led by renowned Spanish judge Baltasar Garzon.

Mr Garzon began his inquiry into Spain's emerging Islamist network five years before the 11 September 2001 attacks that hit the World Trade Center and the Pentagon in the US.

Two months after the attacks, the first arrests were made - and his investigation took on a new sense of urgency.

By September 2003, his 692-page-long findings listed Osama Bin Laden among the 35 people charged with terror-related offences, including the 11 September plot. The list was later expanded to include 41 individuals.

Bin Laden remains at large and Spanish law does not allow for trial in absentia.

But the 24 people in the dock in April 2005 included the alleged leader of the Spanish al-Qaeda operation - Syrian-born Immad Eddim Barakat Yarkas, 42, also known as Abu Dahdah.

news.bbc.co.uk...

9/11 terror suspect extradited to Spain

MADRID, Spain (CNN) -- A Moroccan terror suspect held in Britain was extradited Friday to Spain, where he faces possible charges of conspiracy in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks in the United States and membership in a terrorist group, a Spanish court source told CNN.

The suspect, Farid Hilali, 39, was arrested in Britain in 2004 on a Spanish warrant but had been fighting extradition, eventually losing his legal battles to stay out of Spain, a Spanish National Police statement said Friday.

www.cnn.com...

Evidence of the terrorist plot was found even in Germany, and yes some of the suspects were released because some of the evidence was not strong enough against some of the accussed.

German court acquits 9/11 suspect
A German court has acquitted a Moroccan man accused of assisting three of the 11 September hijackers.
Abdelghani Mzoudi had admitted being a friend of the three men while they lived in Hamburg, but denied any prior knowledge of the US attacks in 2001.

Mr Mzoudi, 31, had faced charges of aiding and abetting the murder of several thousand people.

The trial judge said the evidence was not strong enough for a conviction, but said doubts remained over his conduct.

"You have been acquitted and this may be a relief to you, but it is no reason for joy," Judge Klaus Ruehle told him.

"You were acquitted not because the court is convinced of your innocence, but because the evidence was not enough to convict you."

Mr Mzoudi was also cleared of a lesser charge of being a member of a terrorist organisation.

news.bbc.co.uk...


But then again...

November 16, 2006

Germany to try again for 9/11 conviction of student

Germany today signalled a new tough line on terror suspects by ordering a third trial on charges of abetting mass murder against a Moroccan engineering student who was close to the 9/11 suicide pilots.

Mounir el-Motassadeq, 32, is one of the few members of the Hamburg cell - which plotted and carried out the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon - to have faced a court.

He was convicted last year of belonging to a terrorist organisation and given a seven-year jail sentence.

But it has proved difficult to sentence him for crimes directly linked to 9/11. Now the German supreme appeals court has ruled that the prosecutor should be given another chance to jail the student for the more serious charge.

"It was clear that Motassadeq knew his acquaintances from Hamburg were planning attacks with planes," said Judge Klaus Tolksdorff. A new trial, he ruled, should decide "the appropriate sentence for the act and his guilt" and would not need to hear fresh evidence or call new witnesses.

Motassadeq was a cheerful, seemingly well-integrated student who played in his local German football team where he was nicknamed Asparagus because of his spindly legs.

But after 9/11 German police found the credit card and email password of Mohammed Atta - the ringleader of the terror cell - in Motassadeq’s apartment.

There was clear evidence that Motassadeq had paid the rent and electricity bills of the suicide pilots in their absence and transferred cash for their flying lessons. He had also countersigned the last will and testament of Mohammed Atta.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

The plans to carry out the 9/11 attacks were done in Europe, mainly in Spain, and there have been several convictions, including Osama Bin Laden was found guilty in absentia.

So is all this evidence false and were these European countries also in cahoots with the Bush administration?.. Very doubtful.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by breakingdradles
JUST TO START OFF, I DESPISE WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO OUR TROOPS!!!

I AM IN NO WAY CONDONING THE ACTIONS OF THESE PEOPLE AT ALL!!!

I'M MERELY POINTING OUT THE FACT THAT THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA AGREES WITH THEM ON MANY TOPICS TODAY, ie FAUX News, CNN, ATS ect.

--------------------------------------
[edit on 14-9-2009 by breakingdradles]

FOUL!

That wasn't there when I originally posted. Then you belittle my post then do a very nice quick Edit job right after you started to get some heat. I like how you added that after the fact. I was seriously considering a good debate. I've lost all respect for you

Pathetic

[edit on 14-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

Pretty sure you were the first post on the thread, belittling my post, eyeroller and all.

You can dish out, but can't take the heat huh?

Or was that post in support of mine? Whoops, forgot that didn't you.

Your turn, quick go edit.

I know why you're so against this video, and I expect you to be.

It's the masses I'm trying to inform.

Just to please you though;

-----

Please check the front page again.

It was not my intent to make you look bad.

I thought that adding an all capitols disclaimer to the top was an obvious edit?

JUST SO EVERYONE KNOWS,

YES I DID ADD A DISCLAIMER TO THE TOP TO KEEP THE POSTS CALLING ME A TERRORIST LOVER DOWN!!!

YES I DID ADD IT AFTER SLAYER69 HAD POSTED!!!

Apparently people will dislike him more if they think he wrote that after reading the disclaimer as I can't figure out why else it would matter so dearly to him. In fact, this entire mini paragraph is... AN EDIT!!!

[edit on 14-9-2009 by breakingdradles]

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
I understand the point you are making in the OP, but it is kinda biased in favour of terrorists. You are incorrectly suggesting that terrorism did not exist before the USA invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. While those invasions did create more terrorists and hate towards the USA as a result, it is dishonest to say those invasions are the cause of terrorism as a whole.

You know a lot of Americans, and even Europeans have forgotten their history, and the fact that we didn't fight against Islamic extremism just in the past 10 years or so...

The first large war in which the United States had to fight right after the Republic was founded was the Barbary Wars, and it was wars against Islamic extremist nations which were attacking, raiding, and killing merchant vessels from the United States, and from Europe which were travelling either from the U.S. to Europe, or from Europe to the United States.

First Barbary War
....................
Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli, although nominally governed by the Ottoman Empire, had been largely independent Muslim states since the 17th century. The monarchy of Morocco, which had been under its current government since 1666, was well known by the time of the Barbary Wars for supporting piracy.[1] But since it had signed and recognized a treaty with the United States in 1777, and never harassed American ships, Morocco was not involved in the Barbary Wars like the other North African states.

Britain and France had come to uneasy ententes with the pirates; a combination of military might, diplomacy, and extorted payments had kept ships flying the Union Flag or French tricolor more or less safe from attack. As British colonists before 1776, American merchant vessels had enjoyed the protection of the Royal Navy. During the American Revolution, American ships came under the aegis of France due to a 1778 Treaty of Alliance between the two countries.

However, by 1783 America became solely responsible for the safety of its own commerce and citizens with the end of the Revolution. Without the means or the authority to field a naval force necessary to protect their ships in the Mediterranean, the nascent U.S. government took a pragmatic, but ultimately self-destructive route. In 1784, the United States Congress allocated money for payment of tribute to the Barbary pirates and instructed her British and French ambassadors (John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, respectively) to look for opportunities to negotiate peace treaties with the Barbary nations. Unfortunately, the price demanded for these treaties far exceeded the amount that Congress had budgeted.

In 1786, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied:

It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every muslim who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemys ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once.

en.wikipedia.org...

A lot of Americans now-a-days, including many Europeans have forgotten their history.




[edit on 14-9-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Wow, I didn't know that lol.

Star to you!

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Few claim that they didn't do it, but there is much conjecture around their US affiliations, residences and why they were permitted to do it. More even on what was gained as a result of the attacks - who benefitted.

And why is it that our own FBI couldn't pin it on him - insufficient evidence

Just stating that there is quite a bit of evidence that at the very least shows complicity within our own Government. I for one believe they were some pretty motivated Islamic terrorist and certainly do not condone their actions but I also believe they had some help - some doors were left open - metaphorically

I dont wish to debate the evidence as it tends to derail threads like a plague

Just sayin - it's not an all or nothing thing, alot of it doesn;t wash



[edit on 14-9-2009 by WWJFKD]my "n" is sticking



[edit on 14-9-2009 by WWJFKD]

reply to post by WWJFKD


I agree with you.

I believe it was Islamic "terrorists" committed the acts, but I believe they had a homegrown puppet master.

reply to post by breakingdradles


Editing your first post with a direct reponce to a member isn't kosher.
Respond in your thread to each member in succint order, changing the premise of your post to counter someone elses comments has led me to be confused as to what you are saying.
It would be more appropriate if you just debated throughout the thread.

As someone who lost a friend to the Bali bombings, a purely fundamentalists driven event, I can't have empathy for the hatred "americans" and the west that they advocate.
As someone with an Iraqi friend who as a refugee in my country has not gone back to bury the 9 family members she has lost over there, I still wont buy into the perpetuation of hate that these power struggles propogate down through to us masses.

Whether it is your own government, or Terrorists carrying out the attrocities it is done to propogate fear in people like you and I, and I wont succumb to any partisan approach on the matter, as it just means that those agressors have manipulated me as was their intent.

I see us all as this little things called humans, we are exactly the same species, who have been manipulated by concepts such as nationality and religion (all learned not inate) in order enable factional power struggles.

Its the desire for power that causes us to be on the receiving end of all this, religion and political partisan alignment are just badges worn to hide the reality of power struggle.




[edit on 14-9-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Originally posted by breakingdradles

Pretty sure you were the first post on the thread, belittling my post, eyeroller and all.

You can dish out, but can't take the heat huh?

Or was that post in support of mine? Whoops, forgot that didn't you.

Your turn, quick go edit.

I know why you're so against this video, and I expect you to be.

It's the masses I'm trying to inform.

Just to please you though;


Apparently people will dislike him more if they think he wrote that after reading the disclaimer as I can't figure out why else it would matter so dearly to him. In fact, this entire mini paragraph is... AN EDIT!!!

OK don't play Stupid! You know exactly what you did...

My edit for spelling still came before you edited your original post. Which changed the whole tone.



[edit on 14-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

Editing your first post with a direct reponce to a member isn't kosher.
Respond in your thread to each member in succint order, changing the premise of your post to counter someone elses comments has led me to be confused as to what you are saying.
It would be more appropriate if you just debated throughout the thread.

As someone who lost a friend to the Bali bombings, a purely fundamentalists driven event, I can't have empathy for the hatred "americans" and the west that they advocate.
As someone with an Iraqi friend who as a refugee in my country has not gone back to bury the 9 family members she has lost over there, I still wont buy into the perpetuation of hate that these power struggles propogate down through to us masses.

Whether it is your own government, or Terrorists carrying out the attrocities it is done to propogate fear in people like you and I, and I wont succumb to any partisan approach on the matter, as it just means that those agressors have manipulated me as was their intent.

I see us all as this little things called humans, we are exactly the same species, who have been manipulated by concepts such as nationality and religion (all learned not inate) in order enable factional power struggles.

Its the desire for power that does, religion and political partisan alignment are just badges worn to hide the reality of power struggle.


[edit on 14-9-2009 by zazzafrazz]

HOW DID I CHANGE THE PREMISE???

The topic was never were they right to kill Americans!!!

It's that the same topics they used as reasons to fight back are now being used and brought up in American Mainstream Media by Americans wanting to fight back against the government!

Please read the topic people, not what you want to see after reading my username!!!

[edit on 14-9-2009 by breakingdradles]

reply to post by breakingdradles


edit :sigh never mind



[edit on 14-9-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
reply to post by breakingdradles

 

Umm I dont know who you are so that made no difference to me.
You changed the premise from original content to add a personal reposnce to a member....thats a premise alteration.

Responding throughout your thread, would have made it easier for me to undertsand you, as it stands I'm not sure if you are here to highlight Slayers thoughts or your own......

That changed the premise?

You think this whole thread is now about SLAYER69?!?!

EDIT TO ADD

He made this thread about himself.

He seems to think that other users will think less of him if they think he wrote his post after reading my disclaimer.

So much so, that he has "lost all respect" for me.

He's being a drama queen and making the thread about himself.

[edit on 14-9-2009 by breakingdradles]

Holy Moly Batman - What was it we were talking about again Another thread bites the dust.

Originally posted by breakingdradles

If someone gets more stars then you replying to your post, why do you get so mad and worked up over this topic that you tell another member that you "lose all respect for them" for adding a disclaimer after your belittling of their post?

You changed the original post...

In response to getting some heat.

reply to post by breakingdradles

It seems like in all the videos, they do not speak to the government, but the American people.

The ironic part of this statement is that the very "people" you are saying speak to the American people are the very people EMPLOYED by the government

Not much to add really

CIA ring any bells? propogander never went away after the war, they just got better at using it against the population.

Osama bin laden was and is a scape goat

he use to work for the american goverment when he was fighting the USSR in afganistan and then created the muja hadiem

Kinda ironic, oh and take not of this

when was the last time you seen a THREAT level on fox news?

funny? mm?

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by breakingdradles

If someone gets more stars then you replying to your post, why do you get so mad and worked up over this topic that you tell another member that you "lose all respect for them" for adding a disclaimer after your belittling of their post?

You changed the original post...

In response to getting some heat.

I added a disclaimer, NOT CHANGED THE POST!!!

I added a disclaimer to keep the thread on topic.

Guess that didn't work.

Great job derailing a popular thread on a topic you don't agree with!

I'll have to start taking notes.

As said before,

ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST!!!

[edit on 14-9-2009 by breakingdradles]

Moving back to the original point of the post, isn't it the point of both sides of a conflict to justify their position?
Propaganda from either Western media or movies from terrorists, it's still propaganda.

Churchill/Hitler did the same thing in WWII, but instead of the internet they dropped leaflets

Whoever wins will be found to be 'correct' as the Winner writes the history