Derivatives Collapse and the China Gold and Silver Markets

Originally posted by rogerstigers

Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by pegasi51
Food, Water and firearms... That's my Two cents... You can Keep the CHANGE!

I like the expression "the five G's:" Gold, Girls, Grain, Guns, and Gasoline.

Feh, screw the guns and gasoline. Give me alchohol and explosives.. 'course it isn't quite as poetic..

Egads Roger!

You forgot girls! The MOST important part of that list

Silly Roger


-Sliadon

This part is hilarious. I love how they talk about the Illuminati...

Gold will continue to trickle out of New York, Chicago and London at a snails pace until the Illuminati are good and ready to blow the lid off gold. Remember, the Illuminati themselves, via their own personal Swiss and offshore accounts, own much of the world's gold, so skyrocketing gold prices to them are a good thing, as long as they have had adequate opportunity to diversify out of dollar-denominated assets and to milk the power they possess by virtue of the reserve status of the dollar, the safe-haven status of the US treasury bond and the Fed's ability to print money out of thin air. If any country attempts to force the issue before the Illuminati are ready, all hell is going to break loose. They will not go down quietly, you can rest assured about that. The financial community may soon find its own version of a Mad Max world. Stock markets around the world could well be the next major casualty. This will be the Illuminati's way of saying: back off, or we'll wipe you out.

OH KAY!

This is nothing more than modern day mythologies and bogie men which emerge from the psyche in an attempt to describe why chaos and entropy exist.

Not that the derivatives markets aren't in trouble... but I'm waiting for Bob Chapman to start talking about lizard people and Nibiru next.


[edit on 10-9-2009 by HunkaHunka]

Hmm. Interesting remarks by Greenspan, considering his role and manipulation.

LONDON (Reuters) – Another global financial crisis is inevitable because human nature always reverts to "speculative excesses" during a period of sustained prosperity, former U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said.

"The crisis will happen again but it will be different," he told BBC Two’s "The Love of Money" television series.

"That is the unquenchable capability of human beings when confronted with long periods of prosperity to presume that that will continue," he said.

link

edit to add link

[edit on 10-9-2009 by liveandlearn]

Originally posted by theonlyrusty
I do trade the gold, crude and the usd markets and here is where we have the conundrum.

We have been informed they are going to devalue the dollar...gold goes up.

The Chinese fail to cover their short positions.......gold goes down.

Nu-Uh

If the Chinese default on their short of Gold/Silver derivatives contracts.......the counterparties go down.

The massive Comex commercial short positions will be be exposed for what they've always been....naked. Clear violations of the CFTC 90% cover rule.

When it's revealed that there isn't enough Gold or Silver in Comex warehouses and/or the cash market combined to make good on these fraudulent paper obligations , any remaining illusions of the US futures exchange as a fair , and honest free market enterprise go down the crapper , and......Gold & Silver go ballistic.

Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked - Warren Buffet

China controls the tide.

****

Congress lifted the ban on Gold ownership at the end of 1974 , allowing 214 million Americans access to the market.


Reaction....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/89c978ab1519.gif[/atsimg]


Consider the impact of 1.3 billion Chinese....

China pushes silver and gold investment to the masses

And on the topic of commodities...

Anyone notice the massive move in Natural Gas today???

If one commodity can gain 16% this fast who's to say another can't?

BTW: The USD hit a new low for today... 76.624 ...closing in on the 52 Wk low of 75.89 and the YEN has just hit a new high for today... 91.213 ...not real good news here either... :shk:

[edit on 9/10/2009 by Hx3_1963]

Originally posted by Sliadon

Originally posted by rogerstigers

Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by pegasi51
Food, Water and firearms... That's my Two cents... You can Keep the CHANGE!

I like the expression "the five G's:" Gold, Girls, Grain, Guns, and Gasoline.

Feh, screw the guns and gasoline. Give me alchohol and explosives.. 'course it isn't quite as poetic..

Egads Roger!

You forgot girls! The MOST important part of that list

Silly Roger

-Sliadon

LOL, I wasn't excluding them.. I was replacing only parts of the phrase. the rest remains in effect. I learned that from reading federal legislation (article 5 section a.11.v.1.c.x has the fifth word changed from beavis to butthead)..

I R Smart

[edit on 9-10-2009 by rogerstigers]

I'm stocked pretty nicely if it ever came down to it. I agree with others who have said this, who would want some silver/gold as a trade for food/water or other necessities when all you really care about is things you need to survive? I don't see anything major happening anytime soon with our currency. However, I will admit it is possible for something 'life changing' to happen, it could be tomorrow, a year, 10 years, whatever. I guess when in doubt, look at the past for answers... every great civilization has fallen eventually, and they all fell very hard.

I want to add, I hope I'm not the only one who thinks like this, but I wouldn't mind if the world reverted back to how things were hundreds of years ago... other than sanitary problems, I would love to have to fend people off to survive, having to go back to being hunter gathers, ya know building a fire to stay warm. It would give new meaning to life as we know it, and I think we'd appreciate things a lot more. Because honestly, how many people can say they don't take all the small things in life for granted sometimes? I know most of us do, if not all of us. Just my 2cents.

Going to pull noob here, but how would this affect Canada? with America and Canada being neighbors would this affect our economy? I am not big on this type of article so forgive me

Originally posted by GCDrift
Going to pull noob here, but how would this affect Canada? with America and Canada being neighbors would this affect our economy? I am not big on this type of article so forgive me

"When America sneezes, Canada gets the flu." -Old saying

In the past, US suffering has always meant Canadian suffering. This may be true now as well. However, this time it "could be different," at least to some extent, because Canada posesses great natural resources, mining capacity, water and ariable land, etc. in relation to its small population. So if it retools its economy along those lines, it might end up avoiding a lot of pain.

Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by GCDrift
Going to pull noob here, but how would this affect Canada? with America and Canada being neighbors would this affect our economy? I am not big on this type of article so forgive me

"When America sneezes, Canada gets the flu." -Old saying

In the past, US suffering has always meant Canadian suffering. This may be true now as well. However, this time it "could be different," at least to some extent, because Canada posesses great natural resources, mining capacity, water and ariable land, etc. in relation to its small population. So if it retools its economy along those lines, it might end up avoiding a lot of pain.

Thank you for your reply Silent Thunder, Just recently I heard on the news they tried to privatise the water and my brother said an example for privatising something going wrong or ending up wrong would be the american healthcare but I dont want to stray off course, but surely theres some treaty that prevents Canada from giving America the cold shoulder if America gets any worse, they speak of stocking up on canned foods and how would it damage Canada with the influx of people flocking from america to canada but I think I just strayed off course of the original topic, but I have a question regarding this thread. If China pulls out, America gets left holding the bag, how would they fix this? they wouldn't be able to ignore it would they? and with employment rates and numbers dropping this would cause more strain? or perhaps its my general misunderstanding.

Also, Flag for the thread. Great find

reply to post by GCDrift


Not at all! Great question GC!

Canada relies on the United States for the overwhelming majority of its trading. Both in terms of imports and exports. During the late 80s until 1994, Canada had what was called the Canada-United States Free Trade Agreement which only became super-ceded with the creation of NAFTA, which includes Mexico as well.

The individual above me beat me to the saying of:

Originally posted by silent thunder
"When America sneezes, Canada gets the flu." -Old saying

Because of Canada's heavy reliance on us, even with a more diversified economy than has been the case in the past, they still feel the pains of the US markets hurting.

Try and think of it this way, last fall when the recession really started to kick in hard here at home, nations all around the world began to feel it. We saw gas prices drop to pitifully low prices (not that we complained!!!) and many other sectors of trade suffer. If the US Derivatives were to completely collapse as many threads on this site and elsewhere point at, then yes, Canada would suffer from it immensely. But at the same time, nations across the globe would too.

I think someone earlier mentioned the possibility of China flooding the Gold and Silver Market and ruining the market. A great side example of how an over buildup would be bad can be seen looking at medicines. Blood Plasma is used for many different things, and here is an excerpt from one company that sells Plasma products, Biolife.

Plasma is used in the treatment of serious disorders such as hemophilia and immune system deficiencies, and to make products used to help treat and prevent diseases like tetanus, rabies, measles, rubella and hepatitis B.

Source:

www.biolifeplasma.com...


It goes for many great things, and even though there is a shortage in terms of not having enough product to make medicines, if a company such as Biolife or one of its competitors were to flood the market, it would go from a precious commodity to worthless.

The same is seen with Diamonds. Both can have nasty side effects such as the radical markups on either (not trying to get into a discussion on the morality of Pharma or the Diamond industry), however left unchecked both would become useless.

We all complain about Gold and Silver and how the US dollar is backed by nothing more than our belief in it having value, as nothing tangible represents its worth. But just like Diamonds, we place arbitrary importance on these precious metals (even in their labeling!) and that is what gives them power.

Before I go completely off the wayside, here is a link that may help you out some more as well with facts about Canada and trade.

internationaltrade.suite101.com...


Sorry for my anecdote midway through and I hope that the rest helps you


-Sliadon

[edit on 9/11/2009 by Sliadon]

I am of the opinion, that because globalisation has tied us all together, if the US dollar collapses it will be like a huge anchor falling into the ocean and it will drag the rest of the world down with it.

Basicly this whole paper financial system is doomed. No SDR or other fiat paper currency is going to save it, and I doubt it will stall the inevitable collapse for long. Those who have large investments in the dollar are going to feel it the hardest, those who don't are still going to feel it, but not as much.

My advice would be to diversify your investments into real assets: gold, silver, platinum, stored food, seeds, guns, ammo, alcohol, medicine, shoes, tires, gasoline, tp, knowledge (books, how-to articles from the internet) etc. anything that is of practical use or real value. Also invest in skills, like first aid, self-defense, hunting, gardening, making alcohol, soap, toothpaste, beer etc. And definately remove all but essential amounts of cash from your bank accounts.

You can't really avoid what's coming but you can cushion the fall and ride it out smoothly if you position yourself correctly.

[edit on 11/9/2009 by SwearBear]

Great summary.
To summarize, buy gold/silver bullion or precious metal mining shares.....Not precious metal 'paper-backed' ETFs.
Bon Voyage!

reply to post by Sliadon


Thank you very much for your reply, that site as helped me in better understanding. I much enjoyed the gas price going down, but its always cheap for me. I get treaty gas. I am going to learn more of these topics, thank you for helping me.

reply to post by GCDrift


Not a problem, glad I could help you! I also see that you are newly registered and although this is not the forum designated to Introductions, I would like to welcome you to the ATS community and I hope you enjoy your stay with us! Hopefully we won't be too "doom and gloom" for ya


-Sliadon

reply to post by zarp3333


I have a precious 4 year old and understand your fears. I have stocked up on emergency items and been preparing for a "time such as this" for quite some time now, including all things necessary to protect myself and my family if it gets "that bad".

I recommend that you quickly assess the items you do own as to whether or not they truly contribute to you and your family's well-being. If they don't, I strongly encourage you to sell it. Make it a "fall cleaning" and involve the whole family. See who can make the most $$$ in a set time. Most towns have free publications where you can list short ads for free. Scrimp where you can, and make the most of what you have.

Get free info from the Red Cross or other organization - they'll list items you should have on hand. And check out online articles - they're full of ideas on how and what to prepare in a national crisis. Do your homework before buying items... and check prices!

I, for one, prefer to buy things like power bars or protein bars, which require no cooking, are easy and light to carry, and packed with nutrition.

If you have any friends or family living in your area that are concerned as well, work together to come up with a joint support plan. Our neighborhood got together and everyone knows each other now. We have all taken on an area of responsibility, items to share, and a set of expectations to help each other get through hard times. I'd be willing to bet that if you felt out a few neighbors, they'd be more than delighted to have a neighborhood plan. So many people are feeling alone right now. Start asking around!

Depending on the age, I feel strongly that younger children need to be prepared for a "little camping trip", safety rules, and discussion... but NOT frightened into thinking their world is going to be turned upside down. Even if the world is crumbling around them, help them to feel confident and secure - be their rock. I always think of that movie, "Life is Beautiful"... an inspiring example of strong and loving parenting.

Get started today! You'll be amazed at how much you can accomplish in no time.

Lastly, if you have faith... remember to pray. May the peace of God, that surpassess all understanding be with you. Bless you and your family.

reply to post by highlyoriginal


YES! Agreed! It would do us all some good to get back to basics again. Live with more simplicity. I used to be such a "city girl", but times have changed me into a very prepared, ready to hunt, camp and survive girl! It's challenging and rewarding.

So this potentially means another crash because most of those derivatives are smoke and mirrors?

Round here many people feel that the economy is beginning to reverse upwards/level out, it would be such a shock to them if thing toppled back over.

Glad I've been stocking up on survival equipment.

Originally posted by skycopilot
reply to post by zarp3333

 

"What would you do if you were broke? I've been living check to ckeck paying interest only trying to keep my over valued house. I've got 2 weeks of food and a few hundred shotgun shells.I've got 4 young kids and one due in january.

For the first time in a long time I am frightened. Even a 3rd world peasant understands a run on gold prices means all faith in modern capitalism is shot.

What is your take on the societal implications over the next few months. Its easy to say stock up on survival gear but do you really mean take my family out of our urban home and move into the woods?"

First, have you negotiated with your lender? You are clearly 'underwater' or 'upside down' as over half of the mortgages are in CA, Nevada, and FL.
Are there many rentals available? If so, would it be cheaper than your current payments? Concentrate on cutting your losses - whether it is a car or a house.

Second, buy NON HYBRID seeds from someone like heirloom seeds online. Hybrids are good for one season ONLY. If you replant 'seeds' from hybrid plants, they will produce a sterile (foodless) plant. The seeds are only a dollar or two per packet and will produce much food. If you can can food, by jars, lots of lids, sealing wax and a good, big, pressure cooker. Purchase canned meats, dried beans, rice, flour, grits, sugar and honey; oh, and pasta.

Buy food storage 5 gallon pails to store the food with special 'gamma ray' screw-off tops that also self seal.

I feel for you and your wife, especially, since she is due soon. Do you know any nurses. Go to your local community college and see if there are any non-credit night courses in medicine/nursing. You might not only pick up needed info, but also someone who could double for a midwife.

The most important thing I saved for last. The most responsible father is one who has seen not only to meeting his family's physical needs, but also their spiritual needs. As a Christian, I know that I and my family are in God's hands. We were bought by Him as it cost Him his Son to save us. If your family is trusting in Him, and you have done as much as possible in your circumstances to care and prepare, then leave the rest up to Him. And be SURE to listen for His guidance. If He tells you to sit tight, do it. If He tells you to go, go. "Obedience is better than sacrifice."

what a good and caring post....well done

Originally posted by packinmomma
reply to post by highlyoriginal

 

YES! Agreed! It would do us all some good to get back to basics again. Live with more simplicity. I used to be such a "city girl", but times have changed me into a very prepared, ready to hunt, camp and survive girl! It's challenging and rewarding.

Glad someone agrees with me

But back on the topic, if the worst happened and we lost the complete value of our money (which should be backed by gold like it used to be), would that mean everyone stops working because now they are worried about just having food/water/shelter? I'd think we'd all be pretty busy scrounging for those things ASAP.

Not to mention, their would be mad chaos, no authorities (which is a good and bad thing, because I absolutely hate the cops in my area, they're so corrupt, yet without them a sense of security is lost). It would start out with a lot of looting, break-ins, etc. while people try to get the things they should have already had together. I seriously hope people are taking this all very seriously...

“It is better to be prepared for an opportunity and not have one than to have an opportunity and not be prepared.”
-Whitney M. Young, Jr[/quote