Tyrants who love "conspiracy theories"

Originally posted by Chilled Zen
I can see the Arabs + Israelis going to war over things like this, propaganda by both sides leading to yet a another conflict.

This week in the middle-east-forum I read that the Hamas are pedophiles who wed 9-year old girls. I also read that Israel abudctes Palestinians for organs.

Personally, I dont take nonsense like those two theories lightly.

I don't think most ordinary people of different countries hate each other,

Hopefully...



[edit on 10-9-2009 by Skyfloating]

Here's the clip of Chomsky, about 9/11 truth, the part I'm commenting on starts around 1.50 or so.



Some highlights.

Why is it treated sympathetically? I think they like it. It's diverting enormous amounts of energy away from real crimes of the administration, which are far more serious even that what they are accused of at 9/11. Suppose they blew up the world trade center, by their standards that's a minor crime.

Part 2:



Around 3.10

Couple of years ago, I came across a document, a pentagon document, which was about declassification procedures, and among the things it proposed that the pentagon should periodically declassify information about the Kennedy assassination, because that'll keep people focused on, keep activists focused on that, and they'll go off on some wild goose chase instead of perusing real problems.

To the TS: I think your absolutely right, CT's shouldn't be overused so that it can result in a paranoia. Whether it results fróm the CT or because of the frequency of CT's :p
I find it, as mentioned, indeed healthy to speculate, simulate 'what-if' scenario's mentally and spread it in the public, just to see what other people think of it.
There are however some CT's I really find plausible, like the 'inside-job' argument of 9-11.
My question is: do you really think an airplane in the Pentagon was an airplane, and that the TT's collapsed because of the panes? Not to start a discussion, but I've seen a lot of evidence really pleading for the 'inside-job' CT. And I feel myself really really able to objectively judge information (which I am required to be able of, actually).

reply to post by Skyfloating



CT to me is like a fun house mirror, it takes an event or idea and then distorts it as much as possible looking for the "true" image. When used by someone as disinformation the distortion is presented as the true image. When done by a person of power the distorted image can consume the truth entirely.

CT can be insidious in how it consumes the rational and can leave someone in an unbalanced state. To me when someone becomes angry over the dismissal of their pet CT it confirms (for me at least) that the rational has been lost in the distorted image (possibly never to be found again).

reply to post by Skyfloating


Skyfloating, a pattern that you either failed to notice or failed to mention is that the conspiracy theories used for political gain are theories about an adversary, not necessarily from a tyrant.

For example, the US Went to invade iraq under the theory that Sadam was helping Al Qaeda and that he had a prolific WMD program.

Those statements were conspiracy theories because, like all conspiracy theories, they were based on suspicion rather than evidence.

And evidence can sometimes vindicate a conspiracy theory raising it to the status of historical fact. Who may or may not agree with the theory at one time or another (tyrant or messiah) is merely a distraction

-rrr

Some of it does boil down to the semantics of which side of the fence from which you happen to be viewing. Freedom Fighter/Terrorist. Propaganda/Publicity. Some of this can be construed as a relative viewpoint.

Cast you mind back to 8th August 2008 and the President of Georgia claiming that his country was being invaded by Russia. It only later transpired that Russia had sent in reinforcements in response to an attack launched on its peace-keepers stationed in Georgia.

All in all a good insight for those not prepared to accept the possible anti-thesis once in a while.

Slightly off-topic I have to respond to this:

Originally posted by Skyfloating
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/46ba2c968b1b.jpg[/atsimg]

This demonstrates that North Korea is possibly the only country that meets UN carbon emissions levels. Shape of things to come..?

WOW shaking my head in wondermenet. COULD NOT AGREE MORE. Great reasoning ie. Post.

reply to post by rickyrrr


Hear hear!

Thats an excellent point. I just wanted to second your post...



Skyfloating:

Agreed 110%.

I hope the message gets out to those who are a little too dominated by some of these theories...

In fact, we could just as easily feature

Tyrants who hate "conspiracy theories"

Originally posted by nickspm
In fact, we could just as easily feature

Tyrants who hate "conspiracy theories"

Bring it on.

About the jewish thing:
I really HATE that the jewish topic is so sensitive. Wish we could all talk with more freedom about this (and other) topics.
It's not a conspiracy to say jews run the show, per se. I know many jews, and have jewish friends. They are people like everyone else, some are extremists, some couldn't care less about their "race" or religion.
Let me digress a little bit to get to my point: when you are part of a small group, your group tends to cooperate between its members to get in a good position regarding other, bigger groups. Then your group grows more powerful and get some of your members to play with the big boys of the other groups. Then, those guys help out other little guys among your group to get to the same spot they're on, since they'll keep progressing.
Back to the jews: They have a lot of people in high places for this reason, and their traditions and background make, for some reason i don't know, to really push forward. On their business, on their way of life, on negotiations, on anything.
So yes, a lot of jewish people run the world, so what? That's no freaking conspiracy, it's just facts if you take your time and "follow the money". Now, am I suddenly Hitler for stating that fact? No, because I couldn't care less whether they're jews, muslims, blacks or green (this last one would be scary though if you get what you mean). The thing I DO CARE is if someone, of any race, religion or group, is trying to destroy my way of life. Which I DONT KNOW if these particular jewish people are doing or not.
But it is true that jews have a lot of money and power, but of course, this is a gross generalization. If someone could make an honest survey, I would bet that if we take the size of their group and see how many people do they have on high places, they would be by far the more succesful in that department.

This is equivalent to say "whites are bad because some white boy runs a media corporation and distorts the news". Are there powerful whites behind the curtains? Of course they are. Are all whites bad then? I know I'm not!

Originally posted by seb2882
About the jewish thing:
I really HATE that the jewish topic is so sensitive. Wish we could all talk with more freedom about this (and other) topics.

You and others are mistaken that you are "not allowed to talk about it". Been lurking around this site since 2003 and not a day goes by without plenty of "jewish conspiracy" theories. Plenty.



[edit on 10-9-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by Nirgal
Some of it does boil down to the semantics of which side of the fence from which you happen to be viewing. Freedom Fighter/Terrorist. Propaganda/Publicity. Some of this can be construed as a relative viewpoint.

Sometimes a relative viewpoint applies, but...

This demonstrates that North Korea is possibly the only country that meets UN carbon emissions levels. Shape of things to come..?

...sometimes actually travelling to the places in question and experiencing them, makes on embrace places such as the U.S., and relativity is replaced by a firm stance.

[edit on 10-9-2009 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by rickyrrr

For example, the US Went to invade iraq under the theory that Sadam was helping Al Qaeda and that he had a prolific WMD program.

Those statements were conspiracy theories because, like all conspiracy theories, they were based on suspicion rather than evidence.

Thats true. Sometimes our own Government gets trapped in false theories.

Originally posted by -Thom-
My question is: do you really think an airplane in the Pentagon was an airplane, and that the TT's collapsed because of the planes? Not to start a discussion, but I've seen a lot of evidence really pleading for the 'inside-job' CT. And I feel myself really really able to objectively judge information (which I am required to be able of, actually).

I wont rule out an inside-job for 9/11. But for the reasons stated, I still take it with a grain of salt.

reply to post by seb2882


1. I´ll defend your right to say anything about jews you want to say

2. Being succesful is not a conspiracy, as you correctly state. Many would do the same type of "networking" if they had the opportunity.

3. I dont think they want to destroy your life.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Dear Skyfloating!
Facists are left wing!!!! In german(known as Nazi) wersion it was called National Socialism, in Italy, especially Nord of Italy people put on the wall the portraits of Mussolini aside with Che Guevara or/and Lenin...(does not matter that they are mostly idealistic believers in the "innocent", idealised versions of mentioned ideologies...For some extreme left wing facist- the real ones, they are like subhumans for former facist- something to eliminate...
Please dont try to redefine their own beliefs!!
Facism is definitely LEFT WING IDEOLOGY.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I'm sorry that my words may have mislead you. I didn't mean we can't speak freely on this forum, just on other areas of life... BTW I agree with the logic you imply in your OP even though I'm not so sure about the North Korea example, for instance. I've never been there, I don't know how "bad" they feel about the way they live and know little about their culture. It may be that this guy is a tyrant to the western world. But maybe north koreans get the same feeling about the West. It seems to me more like two boys making empty threats on the other, like kids bullying themselves. The same goes with Chavez and the US presidency (whichever president it has). In Venezuela some people hold him as a hero, some people hate him. So... is he a tyrant? Bush was the biggest demon on Earth to Chavez (and now Obama, of course)... so I guess it depends on the eye of the beholder, and who "wins" in the end...

But I know your point is how some individuals manipulate, and I agree wholeheartedly with that. And it goes on at every level, even the lowest of them! So it's an interesting topic!

[edit on 10-9-2009 by seb2882]

reply to post by ZenOnKwalsky


I dont agree that fascism, jihadism, etc. is a left-wing-ideology. But I agree the extremes of both sides are similar to each other.

This entire topic is more an issue of information manipulation by influential and powerful people than anything to do with conspiracy theories.

The tyrants seem more similar to corporate media execs than those interested in alternative news or theories.