Homeless man could get 5 years for wearing handcuff keys

Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina 42 I don't really care for the topic at hand, but WTF @ the high percentage of people that practice BDSM and bondage on ATS. I mean what the ****?

Yeah, I noticed that too. As a fully paid-up, card carrying pervert, I was pleasantly suprised.
Perhaps we should ask that the motto be changed to "Deny Vanillarance"!

In calif the cops use a different type key system on there handcuffs then the ones sold to civilians.

Most departments in calif use a handcuff with 4 pin Tubular Locks.
called Maximum security handcuffs

The hand cuffs sold to security guard and other civilians are the kind you can buy in stores.

And most police handcuffs in calif are keyed the same so that officers from one department can unlock cuffs from another department.

The state of Calif went to the tubular locks on handcuffs in the 1980 after a large number of escapes by people that had hidden keys or knew how to pick handcuffs. Many gang member were carrying the keys for the old style hand cuffs,

I have a old pair of handcuffs from when i was a Navy security officer and the key for them fits a old writing desk i own so the old style key is not a handcuff only key there are other thing that use the same key.
Over the years i have unlocked small wooden cases and jewelry boxes with the same universal hand cuff key that you can buy over the internet.

By the way i have had a old style handcuff key on my keyring for over 45 years. Any security guard out there beware.

Well DUH, tell you what I'd do. Take the keys and confiscate them , as for the pot confiscate that and then send him on his way, what a great way to tie up the judicial system and take up prison space for someone that actually needs it, like the corrupt bankers ,politicans and lobbyists.

they called it a concealed handkuff key does that mean it would be cool to walk around with some taped to your forehead

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

My car windows have been smashed twice by people burglarizing my car which really ticked me off since the doors weren't locked.

I have owned several Jeeps and Convertibles, and I learned the hard way that a leather top is much more expensive than a new stereo!

It doesn't make any sense to lock a car with a soft top!

That said, I do lock my house, because if someone tries to get in, it will buy me a few extra seconds or minutes to get my bearings and focus my eyes before my shotgun comes out!

From what I've read, it appears to be mainly a Florida state statue and not federal law. It only applies to "concealed" keys not on keyrings. There's a ton of "requirements" however that dictate it to be "concealed" that pretty much anyone would fall under. However they also say a defense for the charge is simply admitting that you have one at the time of arrest or detainment. ...of course, cops could always just deny that part and charge you anyway.

reply to post by ANNED


Thanks for posting, Californias response sure is a lot more sensible than Florida's.

California like Florida has a huge criminal population but unlike Florida, California seems to have better and more competant administrators.

Having a better cuff would be the way to go, not charging people with serious penalties for simply having universal handcuff keys.

Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

I have carried handcuffs in my purse, and a handcuff key on my keychain and one in my wallet, for oh - 20 years or so.

It is every citizens' right to make a citizens arrest and you never know when this situation may avail itself to you. If, in the process of a citizens arrest it becomes necessary to detain someone, not having the handcuff keys seems like a bad bad thing.

Never had any issues with it, perhaps I should check some local laws now.

I have a pair or two of professional thumb cuffs, same key but Aussie laws are different.

Originally posted by DataWraith
Well DUH, tell you what I'd do. Take the keys and confiscate them , as for the pot confiscate that and then send him on his way, what a great way to tie up the judicial system and take up prison space for someone that actually needs it, like the corrupt bankers ,politicans and lobbyists.

The amazing thing is that the criminal legal system is so busy here in South Florida that the Public Defender for Miami/Dade County has several times taken the City and State to Court suing them for understaffing and underfunding his office and claiming that he can't fulfill his Constitutional requirements to give defendants and adequate defense because their case load is so high. Several times he has refused to have his office represent any defendant and put an entire freeze on accepting new defendants because the individual case loads of his attorneys are so high.

On any given day an attorney with the Public Defenders office in Miami has about 350 individual cases they are responsible for putting a defense on for.

The whole legal justice system is in crisis mode because of budgetary problems and adding defendants like this to the Court Docketts is absolutely a horrendous thing.

They know there is little chance that the Public Defenders office as indinuated as it is can mount a constitutional objection defense to the case and will urge their client to plead it out and take a heft jail sentence.

Miscarraiges of Justice are becoming the norm here in Miami and not the exception.

reply to post by prof-rabbit


Ouch I hate thumb cuffs!

Who ever invented those is truly a sadist but they are much harder to get out of yourself even with a key!

Originally posted by Bunken Drum

Originally posted by Deus Ex Machina 42 I don't really care for the topic at hand, but WTF @ the high percentage of people that practice BDSM and bondage on ATS. I mean what the ****?

Yeah, I noticed that too. As a fully paid-up, card carrying pervert, I was pleasantly suprised.
Perhaps we should ask that the motto be changed to "Deny Vanillarance"!

Wouldn't it be funny that we all follow these New World Order conspiracies so closely simply because we have intimate knowledge that people do work and strive to become Masters of others?

If people only knew.

Jack McGeorge the previous U.N. Weapons Inspector in Iraq who just passed away leaving two slaves a boy and a girl was a well regarded Master and very active in the Lifestyle.

People in BDSM have critical minds and questioning ways and a general passion for knowledge, wisdom and understanding, it's not so surprising that so many Masters and Dominants would find ATS interesting.

Be well!

hmmmm , a freind of mine routinely carries a pair of concealled hand cuff keys [ different types ] - and he travels to forada 2 to 3 times a year - and once a month to other US destinations

he has never hear of this - despite proffesional links to security industries in the USA , and had a WTF ?? reaction when i mailed him the link to this thread

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yes here in Florida the law says it is against the law to conceal a set of handcuff keys anywhere on your person. Whether they be in your pocket on a keychain, on a necklace about your neck, or tucked away someplace even more discrete it's against the law!

So don't conceal them. Make a pair of earrings out of them or keep them on your keychain. "Open carry".

I've carried a handcuff key for over 25 years. When I worked at the prison someone finally noticed it and took it away but I got it back 2 days later when I found one lying in the courtyard that some guard had dropped. Told them I'd trade them; theirs for mine, or I could just keep the newly found one or drop it back in the yard where I found it.

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Was he in a bar? I'd rather pay to house him, than have him out there stealing and robbing to get money for drugs and alcohol, or potentially raping/molesting women. He can get treatment in prison.

He can get mind-numbing drugs in prison. He can not get treatment. Sounds like he was getting mind-numbing drugs on the street. I certainly don't want to start paying for him to be stoned all day.

Originally posted by whitewave

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Yes here in Florida the law says it is against the law to conceal a set of handcuff keys anywhere on your person. Whether they be in your pocket on a keychain, on a necklace about your neck, or tucked away someplace even more discrete it's against the law!

So don't conceal them. Make a pair of earrings out of them or keep them on your keychain. "Open carry".

I've carried a handcuff key for over 25 years. When I worked at the prison someone finally noticed it and took it away but I got it back 2 days later when I found one lying in the courtyard that some guard had dropped. Told them I'd trade them; theirs for mine, or I could just keep the newly found one or drop it back in the yard where I found it.

That's a funny and cute story.

I guess its true if you love something and let it go if it's yours and meant to be it will come back to you.

I love a story with a happy ending.

Originally posted by whitewave

Originally posted by stevegmu
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Was he in a bar? I'd rather pay to house him, than have him out there stealing and robbing to get money for drugs and alcohol, or potentially raping/molesting women. He can get treatment in prison.

He can get mind-numbing drugs in prison. He can not get treatment. Sounds like he was getting mind-numbing drugs on the street. I certainly don't want to start paying for him to be stoned all day.

The homeless can sure be a nuisance sometimes but they usually learn that fine line between being annoying and criminal in their behavior.

Very few of them resort to out and out crime, as in violent crime or theft.

Most of them prefer the life on the streets devoid of it's responsibilities and regimentation of the working world and economic slavery.

Decades ago when I was younger I spent 6 months homeless once, working two part time jobs and putting my self through vocational school at the same time, but slept in parks most nights, and kept myself cleaned and presentable in public restrooms and using a series of dry cleaners to get and trade one clean outfit at a time.

I could have asked a family member for assistance and gotten it but I didn't want to be a burden after all I was an adult.

I could have gotten assitance from the government but I didn't want to be a burden after all I was an adult and capable of work and taking care of myself and was and did.

Being homeless is not a crime, nor is being young, drunk or stupid or hitting on girls.

It's certainly nothing I want to pay for with my tax dollars that pays to house and feed him, while some privately owned prison industry employs him for far less than minimum wage to make an over priced product exclusively sold to the government that my tax dollars pay for yet again even though the profit of it all goes to private corporate hands.

The Prison Industrial Complex is a business and a racket and most of the people in it, which are the majority of the people in it, are there for non-violent victimless crimes of morality and terpitude and are simply consigned to being slave labor for the corporate state as a result.

Lots of people profit, but rarely the tax payer, and rarely the offender in this system.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
hmmmm , a freind of mine routinely carries a pair of concealled hand cuff keys [ different types ] - and he travels to forada 2 to 3 times a year - and once a month to other US destinations

he has never hear of this - despite proffesional links to security industries in the USA , and had a WTF ?? reaction when i mailed him the link to this thread

I had a very similiar reaction when I read the article in the Miami Herald myself. I was stunned and appaled to think that this law is not only on the books but sometimes used.

I have been known to frequent police stations sporatically but inseldom as a temporary guest being the highly sociable and flamboyant individual I am. The last time I did was here in Miami and I did have handcuff keys on my key ring but they either failed to take note of it or were unaware of the law themselves or didn't feel a need to avail themselves of it.

It was actually a failed to take note of it since I could see my key ring and my cell phone sitting forlorn and all alone at a desk the whole time I was there for all of four and a half hour.

I was there because of a BDSM related misunderstanding so it certainly would not have come to a shock to them that I had handcuff keys on my key chain.

It should be noted there is a huge difference in how laws are applied when you have standing in the community and understand the legal system and can represent yourself well or afford decent representation.

Those who have no money and no standing or ties to the community and no means or the intelligence to present an adequate defense usually always get the harshest possible penalties under the law.

Ultimately all we do though is send those people to crime school again and again where each stay in jail they become a bit more criminal minded and criminal savy.

Jail does a poor job at rehabillitating most people and is basically simply a punitive thing that punishes the poor and uneducated the most in my humble oppinion.

Originally posted by Ayana
Poor guy, as if his life isn't bad enough.

Actually, his life is about to get a whole lot better. Prisons these days are like getaway resorts thanks to John Q. Taxpayer. This guy just got three square meals a day, a bed to sleep on, showers, toilets, and a whole slew of new friends to hang out with!

Life isn't sounding so bad, now is it Mr. Gonzalez?



[edit on 10-9-2009 by paradigm619]

reply to post by paradigm619


Don't forget Cable television, libraries, weight rooms, nutritionists, Free Education, and Healthcare!!

With the exception of an occasional homosexual rape, Prison is great!!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


In this country, being homeless IS a crime. There are loitering laws and vagrancy laws that are still enforced. The vagrancy law states that if you have less than $20.00 (iirc) in your pocket you are vagrant and subject to arrest.

Loitering laws? Well most homeless people are constantly loitering. There's not much else to do when you're homeless.

Prison is NOT a step up or improvement in a homeless person's life. For the schizophrenic or chronically insane who are incapable of taking care of themselves, 3 hots and a cot are needed but prison is not "cushy" or easy.

Staph infections run rampant, guards are abusive and assaultive truly for no reason at all (not all-but it only takes one to ruin your day), guys who are 6'4 have a living space of 8 ft. x 10 ft. and have to share that little space with some other guy, a set of bunk beds, a sink and a toilet.

I would rather be free to starve to death in the wide open streets than be a kept and caged animal in prison.

How is this man or society served or made safer by this man going to prison?