I am NOT a "truther"! And it will end.

Every single so-called "skeptic" or "debunker" I see here suffers a form of discrimination that is the definition of ignorant.

Without having ever met me personally, or knowing anything about my life, I am accused of being in some organized cult, of having a virus, of being psychologically disturbed and all number of completely unwarranted accusations that amount to ad hominem.

I don't suppose it is possible, for one of these people to imagine that so many individuals would ever come forward for their own personal reasons to criticize the federal reports describing 9/11, or without branding themselves with such a stupid label.

No, since that is obviously impossible, I must obviously be in some kind of organized cult.


Now let me describe to you the elaborate rituals of my cult:

I post on ATS.


Since the term is really only used in a derogatory way, it has become an insult. That no one uses except "debunkers."


SO posted this, and this forum is supposedly still under its effect:

Unfortunately, many of those who choose to debate the issues surrounding 9/11 conspiracy theories on ATS remain unswayed by our simple rules of civility and decorum and continually seek to skirt the intent of This Thread. Therefore, we are faced with one of two choices... close the forum, or get more strict. In the interest of promoting the civilized debate and discussion of important issues, we're getting more strict.

...In all my years being involve in various online communities, boards, and forums, as well as conspiracy theorists, I've never experienced the level of vicious personality attacks that I'm currently seeing within the spectrum of debate and discussion defined by "9/11 conspiracy theories and Truth Movement."

We hear over and over again from those in the "truth movement" that there is nothing more important than exposing the "inside job." To you I say, then there is nothing more important than expressing your points with civility and credibility. For both sides of the argument, if you're unable to communicate these issues in a deserving manner, then you are not concerned about the issues at all, you're simply entertaining yourself through insults and you're not welcome here.

We Can't Discuss The Credibility Of Participants?

If you feel compelled to discredit those who espouse 9/11 conspiracies, promote 9/11 activism, engage in 9/11 conspiracy debunking, or tell their first-hand 9/11 stories, then do so with facts and reasoned analysis. Simply stating they're a member of a "sect," a popular debunking site, or any other simplistic "guilt by association" statement will result in a "9/11 Madness" warning.

Unless I am interpretting this incorrectly,

"If you feel compelled to discredit those who espouse 9/11 conspiracies, promote 9/11 activism, engage in 9/11 conspiracy debunking, or tell their first-hand 9/11 stories, then do so with facts and reasoned analysis. Simply stating they're a member of a "sect," a popular debunking site, or any other simplistic "guilt by association" statement will result in a "9/11 Madness" warning."

using the term "truther" as a derogatory term, or insinuating without reasoned analysis that we are an organized cult, etc., and thus avoiding a scientific/analytical debate, is a violation of ATS terms, at least on the 9/11 forums.

I have a feeling that if any derogatory use of the term "truther" was disallowed, we would hardly ever see the word at all on these forums. Obviously similar for "twoofer," which is even more immature and used by some of the same people.


Bottom line is I'm an individual. I'm not a group. I don't model myself after any group mentality. And by accusing me of that, one simply demonstrates their complete inability to think critically. Because I came here alone, with only me, myself, and I, and if you want to talk to me, disrespecting that fact is only going to irritate me. Because I do not like having to remind ignorant people of obvious facts. I don't believe the same damned things you stereotypically think everyone else does, and neither does anyone else here. Stereotypes are not real, and they are never civil, respectful or logical arguments. Thank you.

[edit on 8-9-2009 by bsbray11]

Understood, OP.

I do have a question for you though.

Surely you must believe somewhat in conspiracies, if not 9/11, then what? Otherwise, why do you visit a conspiracy site?

reply to post by bsbray11


BINGO!!

I'm actually a "non believer" - well, half heartedly border line "non believer". At first I never questioned the government.. till I heard time and time again do the research. Well, I did. I did what anyone should do - and came up with new suspicions and beliefs after spending weeks and weeks reading and researching.. there clearly is some kind of cover up. More and more i see 'non believers' just making accusations time and tiem again when they can't answer who "Chip Tatum" is, or who is "Mike Vreeland"? Huh, other governments warned the U.S. about attacks? what do you mean there was a drill of simulated attacks going on at the same time? No way, just coincidence.

It sure is alot of coincidences then! not only that, there are too many unanswered questions for any "official" story to be valid.

Also, this 'hatred' from the nonbelievers began in the media. Since the media dictates every avenue of our existence through talking bobble heads, they create opinion, whether it was there or not already with the general viewing public, it influences it no matter how you look at it... Thus overflowing into such media venues as ATS.

I knew peopple that escaped by the skin of their teeth from the WTC as well as knowing someone who did not escape. What began to change my mind was the way the media dictated my feelings. that they said "this is an outright insult accusing the government of doing this?" And, i wondered and wondered and wondered - where is the insult? How is this insulting? To the victims? NO WAY! What's insulting is the media saying truthers are insulting.. then I began to follow and try and understand this movement and they all want ONE thing:

A New Investigation! Now, is that so much to ask?

I agree with you...stereotypes are not real and are a disservice to us all.
I also agree that because of the mudslinging that ats needed to get a bit more strict about it to get a handle on it.
Just hit the alert button if it gets ugly and don't let the labels bother you...they are everywhere in life these days.

bsbray11

Every single so-called "skeptic" or "debunker" I see here suffers a form of discrimination that is the definition of ignorant

i don't think it would be off topic to ask you this here in your thread.
but i was wondering is there some kind of secret sociaty going on w/
in the boards here on ats?
orion 7911
doomsday2029
orby 1976

king 9072
ugie 1028
greyelf 2009
captain america 2012
sam houston 1886
sunny2008ny
i mean what's up w/ dat?
all debunker threads.

herbil
I'm actually a "non believer" - well, half heartedly border line "non believer". At first I never questioned the government.. till I heard time and time again do the research. Well, I did. I did what anyone should do - and came up with new suspicions and beliefs after spending weeks and weeks reading and researching.. there clearly is some kind of cover up. More and more i see 'non believers' just making accusations time and tiem again when they can't answer who "Chip Tatum" is, or who is "Mike Vreeland"? Huh, other governments warned the U.S. about attacks? what do you mean there was a drill of simulated attacks going on at the same time? No way, just coincidence.

describes me to a tee. i did the same thing for weeks.





[edit on 8-9-2009 by randyvs]

Originally posted by Violet Sky
Surely you must believe somewhat in conspiracies, if not 9/11, then what? Otherwise, why do you visit a conspiracy site?

I fail to see how your question would in any way relate to the OP.

Are you implying that you can determine something about my intelligence level, or anything else about me personally, based simply on whether or not I believe in "conspiracies"? Do you not see how that is a presumptious, arrogant and bigoted way to think?

reply to post by Violet Sky


Well the fact is that this is not a conspiracy site, maybe it was back in the day.. I dont really know. This is a discussion board and it is not limited to conspiracies. If that was true their wouldnt be all the different forums to discuss un-conspiracy related topics.

reply to post by randyvs

What the hell? im not a debunker

I'm asking questions,i my self know 9/11 was an inside job....seriously what the hell

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 8-9-2009 by dino1989]

Unfortunately, from what I have seen, ATS is just a place for people to dig their heals in, talk trash, and keep a conversation going round and round.

But hey, it's better than actually doing something in REAL life....

reply to post by dino1989
well then all better i apologise . guilt by association um i plead
delexiscopic underviews !
but what do you think of the list dino? you know anything?
hope he's not mad):
probly calling his lawyer.
or all the others listed.
i'm outta here!

[edit on 8-9-2009 by randyvs]

Reply to post by bsbray11

Relax there for a while. I'm Guessing you feel this way after that other grotesque thread? Seriously you should not let people try to force this type of reaction out of you. I already respect you because of the way you conducted yourself on that thread(really hoping it was you now)when you stepped back and just asked for a little order. I didn't show respect there though because we are different and I handle things differently. It's good you have that attitude as I was told from a young age stand up for something or you will fall for everything. Seeking the truth should never have a derogatory term such as truthers labelled to themselves or rather how can truther even be known as a derogatory term? What does that make the others? Lift your head up now and carry on as you were.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Reply to post by bsbray11

Relax there for a while. I'm Guessing you feel this way after that other grotesque thread? Seriously you should not let people try to force this type of reaction out of you. I already respect you because of the way you conducted yourself on that thread(really hoping it was you now)when you stepped back and just asked for a little order. I didn't show respect there though because we are different and I handle things differently. It's good you have that attitude as I was told from a young age stand up for something or you will fall for everything. Seeking the truth should never have a derogatory term such as truthers labelled to themselves or rather how can truther even be known as a derogatory term? What does that make the others? Lift your head up now and carry on as you were.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by bsbray11


Ok, first of all this is ATS and you should not expect to be agreed with all of the time unless you expect other members to always agree with you. The thing to remember here is that you post your opinions but expect others to do the same if you don't agree fine just don't reciprocate to unwanted rebuttal's.

We have here a fine and diverse community, but with that comes the full spectrum of opinions, don't let this bother you to the point of becoming emotional and creating a complex rant, inviting more of the accusations you have mentioned already. Just sit back relax and take it easy good luck and I hope you find what it is you are looking for here.

[edit on 8-9-2009 by alyosha1981]

Actually, I had you on my friends list till I saw you supporting the notion that this summers crop circles were anything less than manmade. While I try to be unbiased, and I do percieve the words "truther" and "twoofer" as insults, if the tin foil hat fits, wear it.

I get called truther all the time. Take it with a grain of salt and move on. Some people are going to hate you no matter what. Why feed the fire? If you do research that makes sense and would pass a college level course or be accepted at your job, who cares what "debunkers" say. I hear the debunkers elsewhere are better than ours, but I cant join that forum as they would not accept a pseudonym. Anyway most of our debunkers here do a terrible job at debunking, as do most of our truthers.

I always thought your 911 research was above average, if others can't use logic and science to debunk you and they call you names, it is clear that you have won. Don't let them tarnish that.

Originally posted by HotDogNoBun
reply to post by Violet Sky

 

Well the fact is that this is not a conspiracy site, maybe it was back in the day.. I dont really know. This is a discussion board and it is not limited to conspiracies. If that was true their wouldnt be all the different forums to discuss un-conspiracy related topics.

Not a conspiracy site? Well I thought that's what the topics were mostly about here....ATS is a conspiracy site

The Above Top Secret Conspiracy Community Web site is a wholly owned social content community...

Originally posted by RankRancid
It's good you have that attitude as I was told from a young age stand up for something or you will fall for everything.

And I was only trying to make a clear point. I was totally calm when I posted it.


reply to post by alyosha1981


Posting opinions is one thing, but relying on "opinions" that are ad hom (ie you are a cult, insane, won't listen even if I did post the evidence, etc.) as a means of avoiding a reasoned debate (ie no supporting analysis whatsoever) is wasting anyone's time who participates in these discussions, and goes against the spirit of avoiding ad hom altogether as a means of "discussion."

reply to post by jprophet420


Again, I was trying to engrain a point, I don't really take it personally. And similarly I don't notice any difference in the quality of my life whether I am on your friends list or not.

reply to post by bsbray11


Wow it would appear you are defending yourself on many fronts, but ask yourself this: Is it worth it? really. ATS is a great place don't get me wrong but in my short time here I've seen many many members come and go so take that as you will and best of luck to you and yours.

Right now is down-time between catching a bus. Posting these things only takes a little time, and yes, I think it's every bit worth it. How else can I bring a message to people? I talk to people in person but there are so many people. Everyone has to do something. And ATS is a prominent website that discusses a wide range of topics.

All I am trying to say is modify the kinds of idiocy you allow in your posts. Because I don't think anyone can really argue with me when I say that insults and logical fallacies are idiocy. And against board terms, for a logical reason.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Unfortunately, from what I have seen, ATS is just a place for people to dig their heals in, talk trash, and keep a conversation going round and round.

But hey, it's better than actually doing something in REAL life....

well, you're here, too.
LOL!

reply to post by alyosha1981


i think you're missing the point.

truther A: no planer
truther B: space beams
truther C: LIHOP
truther D: mere coincidence and incompetence
truther E: holograms
truther F: flyover
truther G: me
truther H: mini nukes
truther J: flight 93 shoot down
truther K: no WMD
truther L: north of citgo

etc. etc. etc.

when you label someone a truther, you are putting literally HUNDREDS of different viewpoints into one pidgeonhole. yet, that pidgeonhole is a fictitious frame with no real world reference.