Zero Point Energy, Ok I need advice here very badly

reply to post by MAC269


Hi Mac 269,

The reality is not good if he doesn't release the information all at once on a basis that can't be stopped.

If he is able to release all of the information all at once in a method that can't be stopped by people and corporations that won't want the technology known, then he will survive, otherwise they will get him and make sure he can't release the information.

On the other hand, if his stuff is junk, then they could care less and will let him carry on to his own demise. You will have to make sure that nothing is connected to his project when he shows you how it works. Then you will want to put an electrical load on his system to make sure that it continues for quite a long period of time (a day or more), just in case he has some sort of trick up his sleeve.



[edit on 9-9-2009 by RussianScientists]

reply to post by RussianScientists


Dear RussianScientists

Thank you for all this wonderful advice.

However as this time I am only going to be an observer of the phenomena and possible advisor to the inventor of the device in question.

However there is a small potential for some very modest investment to the sort of value of building a more powerful prototype. Until I see it running I am in no way convinced that this will be necessary.

To my way of thinking it either runs without outside power, batteries, or another input or it doesn’t.

If it does then it is proof of concept.

Then as you have all very wisely pointed out hard part starts. I have been reading the posts on ATS for a while now and I have a fair understanding of what the future may holed in this case.

I have to point out that this device is not in the USA or anywhere near it for that matter. It is owned by a poor man who is a good electrical engineer. Who naturally would like to see his fortune come from this device.

However from what I see on the net it would seam that this is near impossible through patents in the normal manor. I am hoping that if it is a real device we can somehow make his wealth from media input. After all if it works this guy is potentially saving the planet. But the planet will not be saved by the powers that are over us all they will do there best to lose it.

However it can not be lost if the plans are given away to anyone who wants to build there own, when this happens and the spring up in every country in the world someone will have to build the one you will use to power you house.

Well that is my thinking right now anyway.

Originally posted by LightFantastic

Originally posted by StargateSG7
The "Gold Proof" of a free energy device is this magical equation:

Watts Per Unit of Time = ( Volts x Amps ) per unit of time

50,000 volts x 1/100000 amps = 0.5 watts
which can't even power a single LED for a bit longer
than my mom can spit a watermelon seed into a garbage can.

The above is correct only for measurements made with a purely resistive load or with steady DC. For inductive or capacitive loads there is a phase shift between voltage and current which may result in your wattage calculations being incorrect.

I would never use a couple of digital multimeters to measure voltage and current to accurately determine the power output/consumption of a device. Digital multimeters are good at measuring steady DC and AC at mains frequencies. Many will get AC current wrong due to imperfect sine waveforms. True RMS meters will give much more accurate current results.

As I stated in my previous post a calorimeter is the best way to determine efficiency. Many universities will have one big enough and will hire it to you complete with a postgrad to operate it for a day.

If the inventor can demonstrate that there are no internal or external power supplies and the device rotates for an hour then I think you can be pretty sure he is on to something.


[edit on 9/9/2009 by LightFantastic]

I agree with this poster in his assessment that imperfect waveforms
would make for inaccurate output power calculations using multimeters
which is why I ALSO specified the recording of Minimum & Maximum
Voltage/Amperage in addition to Mean and Average values over specified
periods of running time to see if any waveform periodicity events occur
such as sags and surges occuring at measurable regular or irregular
intervals. Irregular AC electrical waveforms would DAMAGE much
modern and electrically sensitive computing and other consumer
devices thus by graphing the waveforms over long periods of time
we can see if the output needs fixing or a Free Energy Device requires
further work on its final power output.

Simple Battery-based UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply)
Systems could "rectify" some of the problems of phase shifts
and inductive loads and of course smooth out the sine wave
to data-grade levels.

reply to post by ROBO6


Dear ROBO6

Thanks for the links and the good advice.

As I have said I hope to view this device in a few days most likely after the weekend because I have a lot of other commitments till then. Yes I know I should drop all other commitments for this but it is for the children so you know what that is like.

Yes I know that there are many charlatans out there but this guy doesn’t come across that way. I am not going to give away all about that right now only to say that he didn’t come to me trying to sell something he had only mentioned it to another in passing after which being interested in the subject I approached him. Yes I know this could be reveres psychology but I don’t think it is in this case.

So for now we have to wait and if it works I will reread all your wonderful advice very carefully before going any further, that is after letting you all know about it naturally.

Hi MAC269

What country is the device in? I could point you to a some companies with suitable engineers to test this for you in a few far east countries.

They are trustworthy as everything they do is with sensitive IP.

To help you all you inventors out I have supplied a list of links
to companies and products that will HELP YOU measure and validate
your Free Energy devices.

Since accurate power measurement requires a known flow rate of heat,
or other radiative energies including electron flow, high frequency energy
flow or other energy dissipation of a continuous or periodic nature,
high quality measurement instruments are essential in establishing
whether "Free Energy" devices are scientifically and/or engineering-wise
valid and provable in terms of determining total output power in watts
or joules over specified units of running time.

Some suggestions for measurement equipment are listed below
and include multimeters, calorimeters, oscilloscopes,
spectrum analyzers, magnetometers, etc.

These links are provided to illustrate issues with the accurate
detection and measurement of any type of flowing or radiative energy
within commercial-scale power production or "Free Energy"
power production devices and make you aware of any
related hazards when detecting or measuring those energies.


---

List of manufacturers of Calorimeters for measuring
Heat, Electric Flow and Radiative Energies:

www.thomasnet.com...

---
Welcome to All About Circuits:

www.allaboutcircuits.com...


Measurements of AC magnitude and issues
related to distorted AC Waveforms:

www.allaboutcircuits.com...


The Laureate™ True RMS meter
AC RMS Meter:

www.laurels.com...


Used HP/Agilent RMS Meters:

www.testequipmentconnection.com...

---

Digital Spectrum Analyzer for detecting periodic or
pulsed radiative energies at various frequencies into
the tens of gigahertz range:

www.tscm.com...

---

Multi-function Calibrators:

us.fluke.com...

---

Digital Multimeters:

www.transcat.com...

---

High Bandwidth Digital Oscilloscopes:

www.tek.com...

---

Advanced 2D and 3D magnetic field measurements:

Main Website:

www.metrolab.com...


PDI5025 - Magnetic Field Measurement with Integrators:

www.metrolab.com...


THM1176 - 3D Magnetic Field Mapping with multiple instruments:

www.metrolab.com...

---

FD-1665 3CCD Multispectral Cameras for photometrology:

www.fluxdata.com...


Camera Applications and FAQ:

www.fluxdata.com...

---

Thermal Imaging Cameras:

www.flir.com...


Download Thermal Imaging Product Literature:

www.flir.com...

---

High Speed Cameras:

www.cplab.com...

---

General Spectroscopy and Measurement information
regarding the detection of Ultraviolet, Infrared,
XRAY, Gamma and other ionizing and non-ionizing radiation:

www.spectroscopynow.com...


Manufacturers of Radiation detection and measurement equipment:

www.google.com...

---

Ionizing and Non-Ionizing radiation hazards:

www.osha.gov...

---

Cheaper Measurement Instruments:

Digital DC Ammeter, Amp Hour & Watt Hour Meter

www.rc-electronics-usa.com...

---

Build It Yourself Digital Volt and
Amp Meter with Temperature Control:

www.electronics-lab.com...

---

MOAC – A HIGH ACCURACY CALORIMETER FOR COLD FUSION STUDIES:

www.earthtech.org...

---

State-of-the-Art Measurement Analysis Software, Training and
Consulting Services Links to web sites that we believe provide
useful information, products and services related to managing
measurement technology:

www.isgmax.com...

---

International Journal of Metrology:
aka The Science of Measurement!

Main website:

www.callabmag.com...


Measurement and Metrology Links:

www.callabmag.com...

---

I hope this all helps you to
ACCURATELY measure the output
of your free energy devices
in a manner that is scientifically
valid and completely reproducible.

Email or U2U me if you have any questions.



[edit on 2009/9/10 by StargateSG7]

[edit on 2009/9/10 by StargateSG7]

If this guy was to set up a machine in front of you and show it lighting a light bulb to get your money then you should defiantly know how easy it is to fake it.





Or perhaps it isn't zero point. It wouldn't matter cause you can't see the innards.

reply to post by DaMod


Dear DaMod

Thanks for those very good videos, I particularly liked the flash light and this for sure is a possible method of a fake ZPE device. Capacitors have already been mentioned as something I should look out for earlier.

However the first test will be that of just perpetual motion. It either turns and keeps turning or it doesn’t. There is supposed to be no electrical connection to the device at all so this is the main thing I will be looking for. That is if it works at all.

Anyway all is helpful and I will deliver a report on my finding such as they are as soon as I have seen the test.

reply to post by StargateSG7


Dear StargateSG7

Thanks for those very good links and when the time comes I will get into them for sure. Right now we just need to see that the device develops power. I can get into all the tests when this has been proved.

Anyway all is helpful and I will deliver a report on my finding such as they are as soon as I have seen the test.

reply to post by LightFantastic


Dear LightFantastic

The inventor is Thai and yes it is in Thailand.

Let’s find out if it works then for sure I will be going through all this very good advice I have been receiving form all who have posted on this thread. As I said yesterday it will be most likely after the weekend due to other commitments. .

Well I for one will be eagerly watching your thread and am looking forward to next week

Good luck.

reply to post by RogerT


Dear RogerT

Thanks so much for keeping an eye on what is going on.

I just hope it is not a whole load of BS, as this technology can literally save the planet and in doing so get rid of those who would hold us back for personal gain that began in the early 1900’s.

Apparently they have just figured out how to transmit electrical power though the air that Nicola Tesla did in about 1905 or so.

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by RogerT

 

Apparently they have just figured out how to transmit electrical power though the air that Nicola Tesla did in about 1905 or so.

And Michael Faraday was doing it in 1831. Please, Tesla was good and deserves credit for *his* inventions/discoveries, not on ideas that he copied from Heinrich Hertz.

I'm not trying to sound rude OP, but here on ATS you will find hundreds of claims that are simply not true, and sadly this is specially true with Tesla

MAC

OP I see you have already been given some very good advice.

1. The inventors claims MIGHT be very true. Rotating permanent magnetic fields can be arranged to self excite rotation and produce electricity. I am certain about this!

2. However IMHO the output needs to be sufficent to be practically usable in order to achieve aims like, raising development funding and sufficient WOW FACTOR! scientificand public attention

3. IF the inventor does not have sufficient funds to self develop to the level of a practical demonstration prototype?
THEN he must disclose fully to additional partners to first reach that stage.


NOTE some of such devices work ,but are not practical! As mentioned before they can incorporate capactitors etc, or use quickly depleted low strength components (eg permanent magnets) that can decieve the inventor into thinking it will run efficently for a longtime when upsized to practical scale.


I am working on a similiar project. ( only small proof of concept devices, not yet engineered to practical levels)

As CRAZY as this may SEEM perhaps your friend might benefit from some of these conceptual go forward plans (not yet implimented ) and perhaps I benefit.... from the collective ATS feedback (sorry to piggyback your thread)

1. Try to keep inventor identity secret, work through legal representative contact point or points, employ spokespersons for media who DO NOT understand all workings (& identity)but read from pre scripted statements. (So many have been bullied, bought out or "bumped off" before!)

2. Have invention linked to or powering a common electrical device (eg electric motor, fridgerator, washing machine etc)

3. Booby trap the device. Build in chemicals such that if stolen, impounded and attempted to be dismantled without difusing properly sufficient force and heat reaction renders internals shattered or molten to indecipherable mass of junk

4. Put video on Youtube (as previously suggested)

5. Contact MAIN STREAM media via legal reps, for a scoop special to be recorded. Yes private demonstrations will be necessary and also possibly a complete dismantle of components demonstrated at a distance (not recorded or filmed) to prove no power up trickery.

Hows that "fantasy" sound?

Don't let some of these posters get you down. It is true that most of the time, in fact every time in history to date, these free energy devices have been mistakes or scams. But it is possible as there is an abundance of energy in the world that could be tapped and if this feels right for you to help and your motives are not simply greed, you should probably do this. At minimum you will probably have an interesting time with it.

- PM

reply to post by daniel_g


Tesla went to Hertz, pointed out Hertz's errors, and Hertz would have corrected them, but the scientific community had already "verified" his work, and Hertz was not allowed to make the corrections.

Tesla didn't copy a damn thing.

reply to post by daniel_g


Dear daniel_g

Thanks for that. However regardless of who discovered the original concept of transmitting electrical power thought the air without wires Nicola Tesla was doing this over a hundred years ago and the technology was suppressed at that time in favor of Big Oil and a like. As Tesla found if no one could put a meter on it he wouldn’t get the funding.

This sort thinking has to stop if the human race is to survive.

reply to post by Has2b


Dear Has2b

Thanks for the good advice, once it has been proved to me that this device actually works I will very carefully ready all these posts again and do my best to get this technology out there where we can make a difference to the future.

reply to post by Primordal


Dear Primordal

Thanks for that, I will help with this because it is of great interest to me as a technology and it is the road to the salvation of the human race in general.

reply to post by dooper


Dear dooper

Unfortunately the scientific community is just as full of egos as all the rest of human life which means that very few people can just do something just because it is the right thing to do.