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My Friend Needs HealthCare.

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posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 01:04 AM
I have two friends that are having serious health issues. One has heart problems but is being taken care of because he is on social security disability. The other one has a possible brain hemorrhage or brain tumor. This friend has no insurance because he lost his job not too long ago. He went to his doctor and paid $95 for the visit. The doctor sent him to an imaging center for an MRI, but he was turned away because he had to give $1,000 down for the test, which costs about $5,000. He could, and probably will, go to the emergency room, but there is no guarantee the hospital will run this test on him.

He has tried to get government assistance but because of his unemployment income he makes too much money. IMO, my friend is in a world of trouble and all because he doesn't have insurance.


First, socialism versus taking care of our own. I have seen many posts about taking care of our own rather than sending money or spending money overseas(like military bases, exercises, etc.). If you believe in taking care of your own in this issue, why not healthcare?

Furthermore, why should INMATES have better access to healthcare than the average American? Call it socialism if you like, but I believe we should take care of our own.

For the Die hard Democrats and Republicans:

Who cares about who didn't do what in the past? Who cares about comparing the last administration against this one?

The fact of the matter is that neither side has done anything as far as taking on the pharmaceutical and insurance industry.

I will give two examples.

Obama criticizing Insurance industry

"What we haven't heard are the voices of the millions upon millions of Americans who quietly struggle every day with a system that often works better for the health-insurance companies than it does for them," Obama wrote.

The president cited a "2007 national survey" which he said showed insurance companies "discriminated" against more than 12 million Americans over three years because of pre-existing conditions.

Pelosi Criticizing the Insurance industry

"They are the villains in this. They have been part of the problem in a major way," Pelosi said of the insurance industry after her weekly press conference. "It's almost immoral, what they are doing," she said, referring to industry lobbying against a public insurance plan option. "Of course, they've been immoral all along. They are doing everything in their power to stop a public option from happening, and the public has to know about it."

Why are two of the most powerful people in the world criticizing the insurance company?

I am totally confused
Does the US government have the power to regulate businesses or not?

We do need healthcare reform BUT we need input from Democrats, Republicans, and independents alike. IMO, HR 3200 sucks. It is hard to read, will be hard to implement, and doesn't address everything it should.

I don't care about my family and friend's political affiliation. I don't care about their political belief. I do care about their health. And IMO, HR 3200 is more about political gain than healthcare.

This bill shouldn't be rushed for political gain by either party. We all know that Obama wants it, regardless of what it looks like, to keep his promise. We all know that Republicans don't want it to pass so they can use it against Obama. We all know that both parties are trying to embarrass each other over the issue. Admitting any of this is hard to do, but politics, not healthcare, is the real game here.

Stop the aggressive tactics of get-it-done-now especially given our current economic crisis, which needs to be the focus. To quote Sen. Richard Lugar, it is time “to clear the decks” and begin anew next year or the following year. Sen. Joe Lieberman's suggestions of starting with “cost, health delivery reform and insurance market reforms” make some sense.
The most important part of the discussion that must be in the bill is tort reform.

I think the following needs to happen in order for America to have a successful healthcare program for all.

1) Congress should immediately pass legislation to help those Americans(like my friend) who are urgently hurting for healthcare at this time. They should also pass legislation mandating what insurance companies can and can no longer do. Enough criticizing the companies, do something about them.

2)All Democrats should urge and insist that their party sit down with the Republicans and work out a healthcare program for America. All Republicans need to urge and insist that Republicans sit down with Democrats and negotiate. And independents should put the pressure on both parties. Compromise is the name of the game instead of fighting each other at town hall meetings, we should stand together and make them compromise.

I am tired of the parties tearing each other to pieces rather than doing something more productive. If HR 3200 is the best we get, then I can accept it as long as there was real compromised involved.

3)Make the bill comprehensive. They need to address tort reform, abuse of the system by medical staff and patients alike, ways to increase competition, and other concerns that have been voiced. Merely providing the uninsured with coverage is setting the stage for failure.

Are you not tired of all the quick fixes Congress likes to pass? Quick fixes that only come back to cause us trouble in the future.(social security, medicare)

4)All Americans, regardless of party affiliation, should protest the pharmaceutical and insurance companies. Show them how mad you are about their services.

Yes, my friend needs healthcare. But I guess politics is more important than his health, your health, or my health.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 02:17 AM
reply to post by jam321


We need to take care of our own.

If we should not punish the rich for their success, then we should not punish the innocent for not being criminals in prison.

This is a great thread and the type ATS needs more of...

We will see the seriousness legitimacy of the partisans on ATS, this is the real deal thread. Some neck deep, no BS he said she said material

Thank you Jam -

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 02:32 AM
The government could change things over night by shutting down some overseas bases and pull back on the empire building. Until foreign policy changes I don't see how we can afford all this stuff.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 02:38 AM
reply to post by cloakndagger

There are many ways government could help us save more. We have all heard about the $600 dollar hammers. We have all heard about the redundant and ineffective programs government continues to sponsor.

It can be done.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 03:04 AM
reply to post by jam321

I might be more strong armed than you in approach, but discussion is better than a donkey elephant fight.

Ultimately I would like to cut out the middle man in this one sector... Our premiums reflect
things like malpractice insurance fees, taxes and things like advertising, PR firms, Junkets,

The obvious problem is the two dominant ideologies in our society see different things as being the root of problem. On the same hand the solutions of the "other side" only exaggerates the problem in the eyes of the other side.

It is striking a balance,,, you see for me logically I think the best method would be to stop paying for things that do not have to do with patient care or doctor pay directly.
But the only way to do this would be thru MAGIC I think.

Maybe I am a radical, but I think for the sake of all our prosperity and continuity PROFIT MOTIVE needs to be eliminated. Radical yes, however we would not have any nitty gritty to be caught up on. The money SAVED could go directly to doctors and staff
and benefit the entire national pool.

But you see my heavenly notion might be your hellish nightmare.

Jam, personally my hell would be going to far on the tort reform, reason being is
I think the law should never be used to limit an individuals ability to SQUARE UP TO

On the other hand I am NOT FOR AMBULANCE CHASING LAWYERS who are a big part of the problem.

One thing many extreme TORT reform advocates do not recognize is that legalities
are used BY the insurance companies, in much the same way lawyers use these suits.
In the long run insurance companies will inflate the duration for legal battles because they can write the ordeal off and sell it at a PREMIUM to customers. In the long run it does not matter for them because We pay for it... So a quick and speedy deliberation
is not really in their best interest because

A. they can exhaust the PLAINTIFFS resources

B. tack on interest to the cost of the deliberation

My ONLY concern in this area is that we do not restrict fair recourse to the individual as this would undermine freedom much like a big bloated government or blatant Corporatism would.

It is nuanced, but if ideological inferences are put aside one would recognize that the entire Health institution is already leaning way towards an industry bias, to further this bias would create very interesting consequences I can list if you do not see my perspective as I do.

I would agree with any TORT reform that was VERY VERY carefully crafted.
However, if not perfectly in tune I believe it could be disastrous.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 7-9-2009 by mental modulator]

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 03:34 AM
reply to post by jam321

The real problem with healthcare in America?? GREEEEEEEEED! Why is it so damn expensive here? Administration costs. You know, money spent on salaries of people who are just paper pushers. No medical degrees or training, just pushing paper and such. How much does it cost?

Results In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States, or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada. After exclusions, administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada. Canada's national health insurance program had overhead of 1.3 percent; the overhead among Canada's private insurers was higher than that in the United States (13.2 percent vs. 11.7 percent). Providers' administrative costs were far lower in Canada.
New England Journal of Medicine

Now this was in 1999! $1,059 per person in administration costs!!! I'm sure it's even more out of control now! To think that just over one hundred years ago, you could pay for your healthcare with a couple of chickens! AND THAT WAS FOR A HOUSECALL! Good luck getting a doctor to come to your house now!

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 03:37 AM
reply to post by jam321

I really cant believe the prices you have to pay in the US. i'm concerned about your friend. I was diagnosed in 2002 with a brain tumor. It had been growing away for years. i knew something was wrong and too scared to go to a doctor. It nearly killed me as it was the size of an orange when they removed it. he needs to get a scan a.s.a.p. if just to put his mind at ease. How can you get on with life knowing something might be seriously wrong in your head. I would get him into ER as soon as you can

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 04:14 AM
reply to post by jam321


YES - if we could take this anger and frustration, turn into a positive source of energy
to show the industry who they serve, we fund them, just like the government!
We may be customers, but we are all they have... If only we could all come together

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 07:50 AM
Yup they need to do something! I myself dont have insurance either..Last year I was having a really bad allergic reaction to a friends dog. My eyes were swollen shut, I had hives all over me and I had a hard time breathing, so I went to the ER. Well they wouldnt see me unless I paid 500 bucks! I was so upset! I couldnt breathe! She handed me papers on insurance (which I cant afford) and said I seemed fine cause I was talking. WTF is that?! I would talk on my death bed for heavens sake! I was so upset and freaked out because OTC allergy pills werent working and that is why I went to the ER. I had to convince my bf not to go down there and freak out on them. I swear this country needs serious help for health care. I am tired of getting looks just because I dont have insurance. They look at you like you are some low life cause you dont have insurance.
I hope your friends get well and get the care they should be getting.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 07:56 AM
I have to say it: Your friend is an idiot. An MRI costs 5000? I got some fancy tap water for 20/gallon. He wants to buy that? It's called shopping around. You don't just go out and buy the first thing you come across, do you? Then why is it okay to go to the first MRI lab, especially if you don't have insurance. You can get a full body MRI for around 400 bux.

Government-run health insurance won't solve this kind of stupidity. Only darwinism. At best, what you fools propose will drown every responsible person just like those who were responsible when they bought houses they could afford now have to bail you wreckless pricks who got into those 400k adjustable rate mortgages.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 08:26 AM
reply to post by jam321

I feel for you, and for your friend. This is sad to know, that here in America a person can die for lack if insurance. We really need a good Health Care Plan, but not a wholly run government thing, nor do we want insurance companies telling us what doctor to go to. Personally, and I have said the before, ideally it could all work is everyone were put on Medicare, which is a not-for-profit thing. Medicare pays $0.80 on the dollar, people could get supplement insurance to take up the slack, and everyone is happy. Medicare is already in place, and already proven to work. Letting companies and government tell us how to take care of ourselves, which doctor we can go to, and which tests/medicines we take should be our decision, not someone else's.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 08:50 AM

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by jam321

This is sad to know, that here in America a person can die for lack if insurance.

That is a flat-out lie. No one can die from lack of insurance. It is illegal for hospitals to turn you away if you are dying.

You people are no better than the neocons who were threatening us with mushroom clouds from Iraq and Al-Qaeda. It's the same garbage: problem, reaction, (false) solution.

You actually think medicare works? Medicare is one of the biggest ponzi schemes in existence, and it's bankrupt. In fact, since medicare's inception, health care costs have exploded.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 08:55 AM
I agree that we do need some sort of reform.

We just dont need or want what the government is trying to shove down our throats.

When the government gets its hands into something they ruin it and make it more complicated than it used to be.

What we need more than a government healthcare plan is regulation of the prices in the united states medical business. Our medical bills are some of the highest in the world.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 09:16 AM
reply to post by jam321

I honestly could not agree with you more and this has been my exact opinion expressed on ATS.

We do need reform. It's ridiculous for some segments of the population to have it for free but not others. Like you said, it's insane criminals receive treatment while many honest Americans do not- but still pay for with their taxes. Then we have the poor, elderly, or disabled get it for free at the expense of those who pay for it but do not receive it. Even illegal aliens can pop into an ER and use it as a free clinic.

The government wastes so much money but if they trimmed their budget for things that are unnecessary puffery, the funds would be there.

We have the poor getting it for free, some middle class who have insurance, and the wealthy who can afford it but a large chunk of the population who is 'borderline' to where they cannot afford it but do not qualify for other programs. That's not right.

So I do agree with reform but, as you say, it needs to be worked on by all and not a 'democrat bill' or a 'republican bill.' It also doesn't have to be rammed through so a politician can make a name for himself. The current proposal is simply not what America needs but we do need something.

Our current system is broken while the proposed system looks like a nightmare. I'm not a socialist and can admit to some of the problems with universal health care or insurance. However, it can be done, it is affordable, and it's better than tens of millions receiving no care at all. We just need to quit the idiotic spending. Not add it to the budget but finagle it into the budget.

My dream is to have a private sector and a public sector like public and private schools. If you want to go private, then have at it. But if you're stuck in the middle group that can't afford it but does not qualify, then public will be available to you. I can see how that might be unfair because the wealthy could afford private care while others can't but it's not that much different than the way things are now and we wouldn't have millions standing out in the cold.

I don't believe health care is a 'right,' but I do believe it's insanity to take care of some but not others while those others are paying for it.

reply to post by radio_for_peace

That is a flat-out lie. No one can die from lack of insurance. It is illegal for hospitals to turn you away if you are dying.

I don't believe that is correct. ER visits for emergencies is only one part of the system. Some cannot afford the prescriptions they need or the surgeries. ER's are forced to stabilize you but that's all. They're not forced to fund you with your monthly needed prescriptions, transplants, long term care like cancer patients, etc.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 09:22 AM
I have never known anyone to be turned away for lack of insurance. I have had cat scans and MRI's and never had to put any more than $25 down. I have been on both state health insurance and private pay. They treat you allot better when you are private pay than if you come in with state insurance. When you get the itemized bill, they are generally willing to work with you when you ask for things to be deducted like $6 for a pair of surgical gloves, $10 for gauze, ect. When you have government insurance they treat you like someone they don't want to touch with a 10 ft. pole. The only problem is prescriptions but if you tell them in advance, they generally will give you samples, and with places like wal-mart offering $4 generics you can usually work around it. I would rather have no insurance than government insurance any day.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 09:52 AM
reply to post by jam321

My husband told our doctor that he could not get his running speed up. He was 63 and has watched his weight and diet very carefully over the last 36 years I have known him.

In short, there was one test that needed to be done but insurance would not cover it. so, our doctor exagerated in order to get this expensive test - in short my husband had a leaky aeorta valve and needed a valve replacement. Open heart surgery. If our doctor had not gone around the system my husband would be dead now. We have two handicapped sons and my job is being outsourced. My husband is the true breadwinner. This one test was expensive but was the one that showed clearly the leaky aeorta valve.

We need universal healthcare for everyone. Everyone deserves "these tests" not just the rich elite.

You are either a service to self or service to others type of person. The latter are the people who advance mankind.

Everyone deserves good medical care.

Fight - DEMAND we get a universal medical care coverage for every man woman and child.


The right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is promised in the Constitution.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by ofhumandescent]

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 09:53 AM
look i need health care too. i have a grinding issue with my teeth that has caused holes. If they get infected i can have a heart attack. I am prone to alot of issues but i still dont want the national health care. If they bring it in they will have no choice but for us to become a socialist country. As much as i like the idea me and my family dont need the drama from an entire country.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 09:55 AM
I would be for health care reform if our taxes didn't go up, and it wasn't written in some ancient Egyptian writing like it currently is.

For a lot of people it is about seeing Obama fail. To me, it is the fact that whatever the government does is sneaky and comes with unwanted consequences to the people.

I made a thread "It Does Not Mix" about how our current system (not to detailed, just a thought) could be our very own demise. While I did not state it out right, I somewhat hinted towards the idea that without some sort of government intervention, many things in this country will continue to be corrupt. Then you have to worry about corrupt politicians (nothing new with that).

Everything is so intertwined that it is so hard to tell what will happen when actions are done.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 09:57 AM
well i live in the uk, as you know we have the nhs which is funded by something called national insurance. this money is paid by everyone who works and is a very small percentage of your wages and is taken out at source. ANYONE can just turn up at a doctors or hospital and get treatment and it wont cost a penny.
the nhs does have some problems though, mainly too many bosses and not enough know the saying "if it aint broke dont fix it"...well too many times the successive governments have tried to fix it and made it worse.
overall the nhs works, its getting better but still has problems, saying that id rather have the nhs than some insurance company getting rich off peoples illnesses.

posted on Sep, 7 2009 @ 10:03 AM
reply to post by calstorm

Health care reform is needed, however it won't happen until we get Congressional reform, or political reform. Until we can change the way that Washington operates, nothing else will change. All the problems in our country right now can be traced back to corporate power, corporate greed, and corporate money lining the pockets of Washington, that lets them run things the way they do, with Washington looking the other way.

Do you notice in this health care debate, NONE of the politicians have proposed regulating the insurance company? Putting some minimum rules down that you can't turn away someone who is sick because of no health insurance, or that you can't turn down someone for health insurance for pre-existing conditions?

Hell, right now, we can't even go over state lines for health insurance.....there is monopoly on health insurance......even if they lifted the restriction that you can't go shop for health insurance over state lines......that would be a cheap fix.

But they won't. Know why? The insurance company pays BILLIONS of dollars in lobbying money to make sure that the politicians won't try to regulate the insurance industry.

Our country is sickening me for three reasons right now:
1. That corporate lobbying runs America.
2. The our politicians (all of them) have sold out to corporations and special interests. That's who they represent now.....them, not us.
3. That WE, the American people, have not risen up en masse, and said 'ENOUGH". What the helll are we waiting for? Do we think that they are magically going to get morals one of these days and do the right thing?

Politics is a machine. As soon as someone get elected, you get sucked into the machine. Then they get rich. When was the last time you saw a politician come out of Washington with less money than when he went in? They get RICH in Washington, because of all the lobbying money and bribe money and friends in high places they aquire in Washington.

WE NEED POLITICAL REFORM, FIRST AND FOREMOST, before we try to tackle anything else. Until we have political reform (or a second revolution) NOTHING will change.

But you know why THAT will never happen? Everyone is tied into the stock market. If the corporations get less power, they make less money, the stock market goes down, and people don't get rich that way, either.

It alll goes back to money, corruption, power, corporate greed. We need to take the money out of washington. How do we do that???

I think we need to make lobbying and corporate donations illegal. Or, make corporations illegal. Corporations are ruining America.

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