Why not sanctions for Israel?

Why not sanctions for Israel?

www.daily.pk

The kind of blockade that Netanyahu wants qualifies as an act of war. Israel has long threatened to attack Iran on its own but prefers to draw in the U.S. and NATO.

Why does Israel want to initiate a war between the United States and Iran?

Is Iran attacking other countries, bombing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure?

No. These are crimes committed by Israel and the U.S.

Is Iran evicting peoples from lands they have occupied for centuries and herding them into ghettoes?

No...

(visit the link for the full news article)

I saw this article and thought that it would be great for the non-religiously driven pro-Israel folks on ATS, to introduce them to that alternative viewpoint and hopefully turn them around before it's too late.

Attacking a country pre-emptively (meaning, without them attacking or anything) for no reason is pretty bone-headed. When you can clearly see that it's going to drastically alter your life style (higher gas prices, less "freedom", more terror attacks, some possibly nuclear retaliation from terrorists), then it's even more knuckle-headed when you go and do it anyway.

And after all, why no sanctions for Israel?

www.daily.pk
(visit the link for the full news article)

131 resolutions sanctioning israel and its actions - all ignored.

thats more resolutions than the rest of the world combined - oh and in 1991 the USA invaded iraq based on 1 resolution.

so wheres the action now?


edit:

the main crime is breach of the forth geneva convention

en.wikipedia.org...

regarding protection of civilians in occupied land - and breaking it is a war crime against humanity - if you read deeper , the resolutions are nearly comparing the forced deportations of arabs to the deportation of the jews in WW2 ; once the victim now the oppresser

[edit on 6/9/09 by Harlequin]

I think that Isreal uses the Holocaust (whick didn't happen by the way) as an excuse to break all the rules. "Um Israel you have broken 131 rules given to you by the U.N." "Oh you are anti-sematic, just look at what happened to us in the holocaust during WW2! Whenever something doesn't go their way we are racist. Also it doesnt help that none of this gets news coverage because the jews own the MSM.

It’s truly a tragedy what is happening right now to Iran. Israel serves a dubious purpose when it comes to keeping Middle East tensions and oil prices high. Iran itself has been over the last century first under attack and subverted by the British for its oil, and then the United States for its oil. Finally free of the imperial and corporate influences the imperial and corporate masters just really can’t tolerate it.

In 1970 before the first Arab Oil Embargo gasoline averaged less than .20 cents a gallon. Thanks to Israel and lopsided American foreign policy the prices have remained sky high and higher since 1972 turning what was once a cheap and plentiful commodity into a enslaving cost of life that’s made Exxon/Mobil, Royal Dutch Shell and British Petroleum some of the most insanely profitable companies ever known to human kind.

All thanks to the politics of Israel. Even today every time the Israelis come out and rattle their sabers against Iran oil will inch up on the spot market.

It’s a perverse travesty and by the way it’s virtually technically impossible to have any thread no matter how political oriented it is on Israel without it eventually degrading into the same pro-Zionist, pro-Israel, anti-Palestinian, anti-Muslim talking points and rhetoric by the same old crowd. Good luck on making this one any different.

Iran is paying and arming Hizbollah. And Hizbollah attacked civilian targets and infrastructure in Israel. As for "herding" in ghettos - Palestinians in Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia are not in ghettos? Refugee camps for Palestinians ANYWHERE is strategic decision of Arab leaders.
And as for numbers of UN resolutions condemning Israel - Israel is certainly not an angel. But there are a LOT of countries actively against Israel, like Pakistan for example - and this is where your article originates from, and thus there are a lot of countries voting against Israel no matter what. For example when Pakistan was created (not much earlier then Israel) and in following war between it and India a lot of population fled their homes, there is a little attention to this. This is not Israel doing it ,after all.
So why not sanction Earth?

reply to post by kingoftheworld


Every time this issue comes up I tell myself "okay, let's take a look at this and see if Israel really is all that bad" then I inevitably come across someone making a comment like that "which, by the way, did not happen" and I go off on my merry way.

The Germans did indeed try to exterminate every Jew on the planet. After WW2 they were given their ancestral homeland to get them out of Europe, which admittedly did wrong many Palestinians.
Iran has staged conferences attempting to disprove the holocaust. They seek nuclear weapons. Their leader has made statements proposing that the current society residing in Israel be wiped off the map. Iran is not rational with its approach to international relations, witness what they did to our embassy- US territory- a diplomatic mission is another country's sanctuary for its citizens in a foreign, potentially hostile nation and represents modern civilization's peaceful approach to problems. When they seized our embassy and our people the message was we seek to return to stone age brutality.

It certainly hasn't helped our relations with the distortion of the historical events of 1953 as told by self flagellating leftists and the self serving CIA, who took credit for something that was far beyond their abilities to cause. It allows Iranians to blame all their internal problems on outsiders, instead of facing up and dealing with them- and we all know that a victim card that denies your own responsibilities is not productive.

Your denial of the holocaust unqualifies your opinion, (IMO) but for arguments sake I'll simply ask:

Is a world with Iran having the bomb acceptable?



[edit on 6-9-2009 by batvette]

Because then you will be marked as an anti-semite

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Just for a balanced view, it wasn't just the British or Americans playing in Iran during the 19th and 20th centuries. Russia also did a fair bit of it's own meddling....

Iran has and is a very strategically important country. It's easy to see why there is always so much interest in it.

[edit on 6/9/09 by stumason]

Karl Marx, 1818-1883
The philosopher, social scientist, historian and revolutionary, Karl Marx, is without a doubt the most influential socialist thinker to emerge in the 19th ...

www.historyguide.org/intellect/marx.

Follow this guy fowards or back. Alot of answers.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Just for a balanced view, it wasn't just the British or Americans playing in Iran during the 19th and 20th centuries. Russia also did a fair bit of it's own meddling....

Iran has and is a very strategically important country. It's easy to see why there is always so much interest in it.

[edit on 6/9/09 by stumason]

Hey, stop making sense and sharing objective views! Isn't that against the rules here?
As my (edited) message alludes to, the story of Mossadegh's overthrow is hopelessly one sided, the CIA itself caused this by claiming it was all their doing in the 60's when the Shah was a shining success story in foreign relations and the CIA was on the brink of possible dissolution by congresssional act due to extreme blunders at Bay of Pigs and suspicion of involvement in JFK's death.
When the NY Times published their further distorted "expose" General Zahedi's son Ardeshir wrote a rebuttal that they did publish soon after:

The CIA and Iran: what really happened by Ardeshir Zahedi

When US journalists wrote exposes in the 60's, 70's and 80's about US exerting undue influence overseas with our intelligence agencies, they had the potential to win a Pulitzer prize. Their Soviet counterparts had not the potential but the guarantee such endeavors would win them a trip to the gulags.

(A similar thing happened in Chile. The "duly elected" President Allende had been on the KGB's payroll for years and during the 1970 election and thereafter thousands of "political advisors" of Cuban and East German origins manned the polling places and spread out all over the country. Most of the 3,000 or so that Pinochet gathered up in the weeks after the coup and had executed weren't Chileans at all but foreign agents.)

See:
Allende and the KGB

(It might even be theorized that the Shah's overthrow was engineered by their anger and fear over his recent purchase of squadrons of F-14's, and plans to buy 300 F-16's, and the strategic impact that had on their short to medium range ballistic missile nuclear delivery capability. Although the Tomcat found its role eventually as a fighter, that was not its original design specification. That was defense of US carrier groups from Soviet nuclear cruise missiles, but it's even more capable than that. With the Phoenix missile system having its own onboard radar it was purportedly capable of interception of theatre level nuclear ballistic missiles in a head on aspect. No other aircraft in the world could boast that now or then and the AWG 9 radar unit in the Tomcat with its 250 mile range and ability to track 24 and engage 6 targets simultaneously remains the most powerful air to air intercept fire control system ever built. One would imagine having 8 squadrons of Tomcats with US trained pilots in their front yard had them plenty worried.)

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
Karl Marx, 1818-1883
The philosopher, social scientist, historian and revolutionary, Karl Marx, is without a doubt the most influential socialist thinker to emerge in the 19th ...

www.historyguide.org/intellect/marx.

Follow this guy fowards or back. Alot of answers.

OOPS dead link. Try:

the good link

(I prefer his brothers Groucho and Harpo, actually, they were much more fun!)

reply to post by batvette


Whoa, whoa, whoa. His denial of the Holocaust invalidates his opinion? Because he isn't going to just roll over and accept the Jewish version of events?

No doubt many Jews died, but many Poles, Roma and I'm sure others were included there also. However, the Jews have claimed all those dead for their own, which makes the thing a big stinking lie they can use to start eradicating the population of Palestine under the guise of "well, the Nazis did it first".

reply to post by batvette



Honk, honk! If anyone is interested I can post the remainder.

Karl Marx, 1818-1883
The worker becomes all the poorer the more wealth he produces, the more his production increases in power and range. The worker becomes an ever cheaper commodity the more commodities he creates. With the increasing value of the world of things proceeds in direct proportion to the devaluation of the world of men. Labour produces not only commodities; it produces itself and the worker as a commodity -- and does so in the proportion in which it produces commodities generally.

Marx, Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts (1844)

The philosopher, social scientist, historian and revolutionary, Karl Marx, is without a doubt the most influential socialist thinker to emerge in the 19th century. Although he was largely ignored by scholars in his own lifetime, his social, economic and political ideas gained rapid acceptance in the socialist movement after his death in 1883. Until quite recently almost half the population of the world lived under regimes that claim to be Marxist. This very success, however, has meant that the original ideas of Marx have often been modified and his meanings adapted to a great variety of political circumstances. In addition, the fact that Marx delayed publication of many of his writings meant that is been only recently that scholars had the opportunity to appreciate Marx's intellectual stature.

Karl Heinrich Marx was born into a comfortable middle-class home in Trier on the river Moselle in Germany on May 5, 1818. He came from a long line of rabbis on both sides of his family and his father, a man who knew Voltaire and Lessing by heart, had agreed to baptism as a Protestant so that he would not lose his job as one of the most respected lawyers in Trier. At the age of seventeen, Marx enrolled in the Faculty of Law at the University of Bonn. At Bonn he became engaged to Jenny von Westphalen, the daughter of Baron von Westphalen , a prominent member of Trier society, and man responsible for interesting Marx in Romantic literature and Saint-Simonian politics. The following year Marx's father sent him to the more serious University of Berlin where he remained four years, at which time he abandoned his romanticism for the Hegelianism which ruled in Berlin at the time.

Marx became a member of the Young Hegelian movement. This group, which included the theologians Bruno Bauer and David Friedrich Strauss, produced a radical critique of Christianity and, by implication, the liberal opposition to the Prussian autocracy. Finding a university career closed by the Prussian government, Marx moved into journalism and, in October 1842, became editor, in Cologne, of the influential Rheinische Zeitung, a liberal newspaper backed by industrialists. Marx's articles, particularly those on economic questions, forced the Prussian government to close the paper. Marx then emigrated to France.

Arriving in Paris at the end of 1843, Marx rapidly made contact with organized groups of émigré German workers and with various sects of French socialists. He also edited the short-lived Deutsch-Französische Jahrbücher which was intended to bridge French socialism and the German radical Hegelians. During his first few months in Paris, Marx became a communist and set down his views in a series of writings known as the Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts (1844), which remained unpublished until the 1930s. In the Manuscripts, Marx outlined a humanist conception of communism, influenced by the philosophy of Ludwig Feuerbach and based on a contrast between the alienated nature of labor under capitalism and a communist society in which human beings freely developed their nature in cooperative production. It was also in Paris that Marx developed his lifelong partnership with Friedrich Engels (1820-1895).

Marx was expelled from Paris at the end of 1844 and with Engels, moved to Brussels where he remained for the next three years, visiting England where Engels' family had cotton spinning interests in Manchester. While in Brussels Marx devoted himself to an intensive study of history and elaborated what came to be known as the materialist conception of history. This he developed in a manuscript (published posthumously as The German Ideology), of which the basic thesis was that "the nature of individuals depends on the material conditions determining their production." Marx traced the history of the various modes of production and predicted the collapse of the present one -- industrial capitalism -- and its replacement by communism.

At the same time Marx was composing The German Ideology, he also wrote a polemic (The Poverty of Philosophy) against the idealistic socialism of P. J. Proudhon (1809-1865). He also joined the Communist League. This was an organization of German émigré workers with its center in London of which Marx and Engels became the major theoreticians. At a conference of the League in London at the end of 1847 Marx and Engels were commissioned to write a succinct declaration of their position. Scarcely was The Communist Manifesto published than the 1848 wave of revolutions broke out in Europe.

Early in 1848 Marx moved back to Paris when a revolution first broke out and onto Germany where he founded, again in Cologne, the Neue Rheinische Zeitung. The paper supported a radical democratic line against the Prussian autocracy and Marx devoted his main energies to its editorship since the Communist League had been virtually disbanded. Marx's paper was suppressed and he sought refuge in London in May 1849 to begin the "long, sleepless night of exile" that was to last for the rest of his life.

Settling in London, Marx was optimistic about the imminence of a new revolutionary outbreak in Europe. He rejoined the Communist League and wrote two lengthy pamphlets on the 1848 revolution in France and its aftermath, The Class Struggles in France and The 18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte. He was soon convinced that "a new revolution is possible only in consequence of a new crisis" and then devoted himself to the study of political economy in order to determine the causes and conditions of this crisis.

During the first half of the 1850s the Marx family lived in poverty in a three room flat in the Soho quarter of London. Marx and Jenny already had four children and two more were to follow. Of these only three survived. Marx's major source of income at this time was Engels who was trying a steadily increasing income from the family business in Manchester. This was supplemented by weekly articles written as a foreign correspondent for the New York Daily Tribune.

Marx's major work on political economy made slow progress. By 1857 he had produced a gigantic 800 page manuscript on capital, landed property, wage labor, the state, foreign trade and the world market. The Grundrisse (or Outlines) was not published until 1941. In the early 1860s he broke off his work to compose three large volumes, Theories of Surplus Value, which discussed the theoreticians of political economy, particularly Adam Smith and David Ricardo. It was not until 1867 that Marx was able to publish the first results of his work in volume 1 of Capital, a work which analyzed the capitalist process of production. In Capital, Marx elaborated his version of the labor theory value and his conception of surplus value and exploitation which would ultimately lead to a falling rate of profit in the collapse of industrial capitalism. Volumes II and III were finished during the 1860s but Marx worked on the manuscripts for the rest of his life and they were published posthumously by Engels.

One reason why Marx was so slow to publish Capital was that he was devoting his time and energy to the First International, to whose General Council he was elected at its inception in 1864.

nice.
quick headcount, all teh regular jew haters have chimed in.
and even a bonus holocaust denial!
good work guys, im glad to see your on top of your game today.

i certainly dont deny the holocaust happened... however dont you find it odd that the jews are more or less doing to the palestinians what they had done to them? doesnt that seem just wrong, what the hell are they doing? ever been to a palestinian refugee camp or have seen one, they are most certaintly ghettos.. why do you think the palestinaians have such extreme leadership movemens amongst them? because they are sick and tired of being treated by the jews and the world like trash. i use to think of the palestinaisn as the bad guys, hands down. but since ive started thinkin more outside the box, and from thier point of view you begin to form an entire picture here.

Originally posted by STFUPPERCUTTER
nice.
quick headcount, all teh regular jew haters have chimed in.
and even a bonus holocaust denial!
good work guys, im glad to see your on top of your game today.

People are talking history here. What's up with you come knocking with all that freakin BIAS crap.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It’s truly a tragedy what is happening right now to Iran. Israel serves a dubious purpose when it comes to keeping Middle East tensions and oil prices high. Iran itself has been over the last century first under attack and subverted by the British for its oil, and then the United States for its oil. Finally free of the imperial and corporate influences the imperial and corporate masters just really can’t tolerate it.

It would seem to matter to Israel if Iran became totally free of its oil dependency. Iran has stated before it doesn't want to be an major oil exporter or user. That would mean one less nation that U.S. would buy oil from now. That change in economic power probably would shift the control that Israel has had on the U.S. through crude oil. Israel doesn't seem to want the U.S. to be crude oil independent, either.

What you touch on seems the only reason why it appears the U.S. continues to listen to Israel. Today, the Obamadministration is eager to break that oil dependency A.S.A.P. Steps have already been taken to continue to break that dependency.

Israel is being sanctioned in a more implicit manner by such steps, especially when Obama didn't sanction Iran as Israel wanted.

reply to post by dzonatas


That's all a lot of very wishful thinking. Royal Dutch Shell, Exxon/Mobil, and British Petroleum aren't going to stop milking the oil cow until there is next to no oil left to milk.

Once upon a time there was a Great White Whale named Mobey Dick that was darn near the last oil left in the ocean when the Powers that Be had almost hunted them to extinction for their blubber.

Rockefeller and Rothschild were already sitting on Petroleum at that time.

Obama's green energy is another way to milk the tax payers and enrich the same energy conglomerates a different way.

Coal and Nuclear power plants get substidized at a rate of about 1.00 to 2.00 per killowat hour, solar and wind power get substidized at a rate of 21.00 to 24.00 per killowat hour!

In the next ten years at a cost of 100 billion dollars 400,000 green energy jobs will be created in sales, management and manufacturing with over half of the manufacturing jobs going over seas and mostly what you are going to have is very highly substidized energy at a huge cost to the tax payers.

Look at the 100 billion already stuck into cash for clunkers and that wasn't even to buy green cars and that's just the cash payout to the Dealers, the actual administration costs will run 3 -4 times that by the time they government finishes dotting i's and crossing t's to the program.

We should be so lucky. Personally I believe in pixies, being a crusty old dragon it's about the only thing I do believe in, but I sure don't believe a word out of any politician or corporate titan's mouth.

Oil will get real ugly on us way before green alternative energy comes in to play. Even once they get something into the actual box to run with, and I am sure they have long had something in the box to run with, they always do, it will take 25 years or more from the moment of introduction to retrofit everything that uses oil and coal, and manufacture enough new items to put it into wide spread circulations.

The oil wars are just starting.

I wish it were different, but I don't believe it is.

I do like pixies though!