You’ve Been Suckered!

reply to post by Tentickles


I don't think the whole thing is a plot from the start in the way the blog proposes. It seems far fetched this whole thing from the start is just to make conservatives look stupid. But I do think the MSM will spin it after the fact to show how reactionary the conservatives were.

So I disagree with the conspiracy theory but I do believe the author is wise in telling parent's to calm down a bit because if it does turn out to be innocent, the parents will be portrayed as nuts.

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
OK, let me get this straight... Obama announces he is going to give a speech to school kids, encouraging them to stay in school, work hard, get good grades, etc. ....

.... AND (the part you 'forgot') the teachers, who are in a position of power over the students, will be handing out books that teach the Obama-version of Obama (instead of the truth). It's all about him.

Originally posted by AshleyD
If this was being said after the fact, then this would certainly look like an excuse- no doubt.

It's been a couple days and they've had time to cool off and realize that the President couldn't POSSIBLY think that he could get away with the indoctrination of the nation's children (even if that were his intention)... I mean, the suggestion is absurd on the face of it.

MY conspiracy theory is that someone realized what a fool they're going to look like when, on Monday, the speech turns out to be absolutely benign... and even great... And so they started looking for a scapegoat for all the crazy behavior that's been perpetrated by the right over this. They realize that they've overreacted in the extreme. So... better to get it out in the open now (and blame Obama for it, if they can) than to wait till afterward (as you noted) and look like the fools they've been.

Well, I'm not buying it. And blaming Obama for their own actions makes them look even more paranoid, irresponsible and foolish than they already do.

I agree with you that it's a wise warning. I've been frankly looking forward to to Monday, when the speech comes out and everyone sees that the sky actually HASN'T fallen. But this should be a lesson to the people that the right-wing MSM is using you as a tool against Obama. Not because of who he is, but because he has a D behind his name. Unfortunately, the lesson will go unheeded.

Originally posted by AshleyD
But I do think the MSM will spin it after the fact to show how reactionary the conservatives were.

Oh, you KNOW that Keith and Rachel are going to have a FIELD DAY with this. And they deserve to. They will spin it like a top. The right would do the same thing. But it doesn't require spin to show how over-the-top reactionary some conservatives were.

You guys, being responsible for your own actions is a basic tenet of the conservative philosophy. One that I highly admire and aspire to. Put your money where your mouth is and have the guts to take responsibility for your over-reaction on this issue. Otherwise, you look like whiny victims.


[edit on 5-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
OK, let me get this straight... Obama announces he is going to give a speech to school kids, encouraging them to stay in school, work hard, get good grades, etc. Not the first time a President has done so.

A certain segment of the population goes batcrap crazy about the idea.

And now it comes out that that reaction was Obama's plan, and therefore his fault?

Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your own actions?

Note: "your own" in the generic sense, not directed to any particular person or member of ATS.

This isn't about the speech really to me, but about him handing out that curriclum beforehand. That was ridiculous, asking what one can do for their country is one thing, nothing wrong with that. Asking a child to write how they can help the president reach his goals is overstepping the boundaries of what you can say, and teach our children.

My children will be homeschooled or private schooled. Even if I have to work a second job I will keep my children out of the public school system.

Obama is the president - hence, a politician first and foremost.

I can't remember the last time anyone I know - past nine months nonwithstanding - that believed a damn thing that came out of a politician's mouth.

If they declared rain, people naturally assumed it'd be sunny, and vice versa.

The only reason people believe the current admin. is because they want to believe in it. They need to believe in it. I do not. I did not believe in Bush and his PR crappola, and I don't believe in the current crappola any differently - as at heart, I consider them all salesmen, working hard to sell us their BS. Bush and his warmongering cronies made hellacious profits when he sold BS. And Obama certainly has cronies that'll profit from his sales. Nothing new; different players, different profiteers, same game.

Me? I'll sit back, watch the left and right sling mud at each other, and then I'll laugh at the follies and bloopers.

But when it comes to the thought Obama might involve kids in his agenda for his profiteers, the laughing stops. Granted, it could be wholly innocent, and I sincerely hope it is.

But when it comes to our kids, we have a right to be cautious, protective, and the right nor left should take it personal. If we had more faith in our politicians, it wouldn't be much of a big deal.

And we shouldn't have to worry about our kids being caught in a left and right mess. If politicians and their spin doctors weren't such unscrupulous miscreants, we wouldn't have to worry about their intentions with our kids.

But they are, and we do.

Originally posted by KnoxMSP
This isn't about the speech really to me, but about him handing out that curriclum beforehand. That was ridiculous, ...

I agree. That "teacher's plan" was garbage, totally inappropriate and implied that teachers could not come up with their own questions and discussion points without help. Which any teacher worthy of the name will be able to do just fine.

Asking a child to write how they can help the president reach his goals is overstepping the boundaries of what you can say, and teach our children.

Disagree with you on this one... It was a stupid idea, but whoever came up with it still has the right to say it.

My children will be homeschooled or private schooled. Even if I have to work a second job I will keep my children out of the public school system.

Good on you... again, I agree. I am a BIG fan of education, but the public school system needs some drastic overhaul.

I have to agree that that teacher's plan was a dumb idea. But not for the same reasons as some think.

The question: Why is it important that we listen to the President and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of congress, or the governor? Why is what they say important?

It's important to listen to what they say so we know what's going on in our government! What they say is important because we need to know what they're thinking and how they feel about certain issues so we know whether or not they support what we want for our country.

The question wasn't: Why is it important that we do or agree with everything the President and other elected officials say...

I thought the Dept of Education did a FOUL job of writing up these suggestions, but they apparently thought it was a good thing. This isn't the first time that someone in the Obama administration has seemed naive to me.

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

There is just no reason for the President to be talking to School Children of that age. They aren't old enough to vote, and there is no 'crisis' troubling their young minds that he can put their fears at ease by speaking too.

How about this Mr. President...addressing some of the Corporate Big Wigs...TO CREATE SOME JOBS!

Addressing the bankers that have been given billions of billions of Tax Payer dollars to UNFREEZE CREDIT MARKETS.

Addressing your White House Cheif of Staff about why you only have ONE THIRD OF YOUR POLITICAL APPOINTEES IN PLACE TO RUN THE GOVERMENT.

I think the President has a whole lot more important and mature people to talk to and a whole lot more important and mature work to be done than CREATING ANOTHER CHILDISH DRAMA BECAUSE HE LOVES TO BE LOVED.

It's not his job to talk to the kids, it's his job to run the country and the guy SUCKS BIG TIME AT IT.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Thank you.

And I for one am tired of hearing 'Bush did it' 'Reagan did it'.

If they did it, and it was wrong, why does Obama's doing it make it right?

I've heard too many people defend Obama's actions by declaring them having been done before by previous presidents, when anything, it should make him look worse, and the czars he's surrounded himself with doesn't exactly make the man look like Ghandi.

It appears people are mad simply because the gauntlet's been thrown when their guy is in office.

This whole situation stinks to high hell. If Bush addressed kids in school about the glorys of Bush and what he considered important - war - just as many fits would've been had by parents. Guess what? The parents opposed would've been ridiculed by the MSM and admin. then, same as they are now.

Right now, the White Sox have taken the field, and the Red Sox are at bat. Nothing new, still a game. It's when kids are brought into the mix that things get ugly, and both sides are held accountable.

Originally posted by orderedchaos
And I for one am tired of hearing 'Bush did it' 'Reagan did it'.

If they did it, and it was wrong, why does Obama's doing it make it right?

It wasn't wrong when they did it. To a kid who's not even interested in politics, it's a big deal to have the president of the whole country considering them important enough to talk to. It's a way of letting the children of this country know that they matter.

The office of the president has a long standing tradition of recognizing and acknowledging the children. (I personally think they should accomplish this by paying teachers more and making sure kids have all the resources possible, but that's a different thread.) Encouragement to succeed, coming from the most famous man in the world right now, CAN NOT be a bad thing for our kids. You're being selfish to not consider their view of this.

the czars he's surrounded himself with doesn't exactly make the man look like Ghandi.

The kids don't know or care what a czar in politics is. Think of them. What's THEIR take on this? Anyone bother to ask your kids?

[edit on 5-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The question: Why is it important that we listen to the President and other elected officials, like the mayor, senators, members of congress, or the governor? Why is what they say important?

Well, replace the words "listen to" with "believe". Had that been the question, do you think that would be acceptable?

The trouble is that children do believe what they are told by people they look up to. If their parents tell them something, if their teachers tell them something, they assume they are being told the truth. I don't think it's a stretch, at all, to assume that children being asked that question would take it the same way as if it had said "believe". I'm sure whoever wrote that question knew this.

I don't think it's acceptable to tell them that they shouldn't believe, but I can see why parents would not want such questions to be posed to their children.

Originally posted by Maxmars
I am not yet convinced that the "Obama-driven" subterfuge theory is entirely feasible. I still feel the true elements of manipulation come from the puppeteers, not the puppet.

Well said.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

President Obama is as much a victim of the game as we the people are.

His agendas are not entirely his. The same is/was true for former President Bush.

You can go to Washington with a true message of hope and change, only to find a system entirely controlled by major lobbyists and Washington elite.

The best intentions hardly matter when they meet the strict controls of the lobbyists and Washington elite... You will either do it their way, or not at all.

President Obama's choices are simple... Do it their way or not at all.... Either way it is all his fault when things go bad.

We should launch an official people's initiative that will rename forever the office of President of the United States to Puppet of corporate America.

POCA

Has a ring to it!

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
President Obama is as much a victim of the game as we the people are.

His agendas are not entirely his. The same is/was true for former President Bush.

I totally agree. He might be able to introduce a "smidgen" of his agenda, or at least hopes he can, but it's unrealistic to hope that he can do what he really wanted to do...

President Obama's choices are simple... Do it their way or not at all....

I wonder if he really knows this. I wonder if he's playing the game in hopes that he can still make a difference. I think he is. I think he honestly has hopes of making headway. He's against a big machine, though...

[edit on 6-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

I wonder if he really knows this. I wonder if he's playing the game in hopes that he can still make a difference. I think he is. I think he honestly has hopes of making headway. He's against a big machine, though...

He knows, he knew, and he did believe he could make a difference, the problem is in order to make a difference he must pay the price... He has to do it all their way, back door meetings, deals, etc... The question Obama must ask himself now and moving forward... Was/is it worth it?

He will lose more for every gain he makes... At some point, he, like other past Presidents will learn the utter futility in trying to do anything in Washington.

It would be all too easy to be sympathetic here, however Obama (like his predecessors) has danced with the devils in Washington.

He could have made a real difference by being more open with the American people about the corrupt system he is fighting... He chose to play the game their way.

Too bad, so sad.

Fight the system, not the president, he is spent fuel at this point.

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
He could have made a real difference by being more open with the American people about the corrupt system he is fighting...

And he would be dead. No doubt in my mind. It would probably be made to look like some racial group assassinated him.

I'm not convinced he knew just how bad it was before he got in. But once he got behind the door, there's no going back.

Fight the system, not the president, he is spent fuel at this point.

Totally agreed. You have a way with words. That cuts right to the chase.

The ISSUE is that a politician(Obama), who by defininition and by his own admission has an agenda(change,reform,ect), is addressing school children directly without the approval or presence of the childrens parents

The content will be irrelevent at this stage of the program.

This is conditioning of the parents, teacher and children to accept the POTUS dictating authority through the school system.

When a child is instructed to listen to a person of importance:
(listen to you mother Jimmy! )

The child knows that some type of compliance is expected.

The programing works by creating a false rebellion against the content of what the POTUS will be presenting, which can also include that the POTUS is Barack Obama.

So, while people are debating who and what to various extents

The real issue of the POTUS dictating anything dirctly to children without their parents is allowed. Obama as POTUS becomes the face of the system

It may not be Obama who introduces the actual agenda, it may be the next president, but Obama is introducing the program

All this is accepted while intelligent people protest or defend Obama to fit their own world view, which is the smokescreen to the program.

This has nothing to do with Obama, just like IRAQ had nothing to do with GWB.

Yes, its all about the messengers, While intelligent people debate the messengers, the authors of the actual message sit back and smile as it is delivered.

What is the messsage?

Comply to authority do not think creatively just set and follow state approved goals which can be graded by state appoved proctors

Now this message is not in itself bad or evil just limiting to any human who may want to experience life as endless possibility.

reply to post by Tentickles

You said : You’ve Been Suckered!

We've all been suckered ! And all our parents were suckered, and their parents ...

How far back does it go ?

Reminds me of something the historical person Guatama Buddha is purported to have said a long, long time ago -

If I just came out and told you the truth you would all go crazy

Originally posted by NWRHINO
Obama is introducing the program

If you think Obama is introducing the program that's designed to get the people of the country to fall in line, not question authority, be good little automatons, do what is expected, don't buck the system, etc., then you haven't been around very long and you haven't been paying attention. This has been happening forever.

In the 60s, the hallmark of individual freedom in modern American history, people broke out and fought back and made their statement, but those in power learned their lesson from that and are avowed to never let that happen again... To this day, activists of the 60s are still reviled as dangerous and evil hippies.

Obama is just the front man for this particular phase.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by Benevolent Heretic]

I was on the road between VA and NC when this was aired. All I could think of was...EL OH EL!

I don't think anyone is being "suckered" but moreso "outed" for what they are. Radicals.

I'm somewhat of a political fence rider, choosing NO AFFILIATION to any party, and have agreed/disagreed with the Prez on a lot of topics, but I don't think that his administration is setting up some gnarly, chess-like end-game to make his opponents look like fools. I think that they are doing it to themselves.

If it comes down to playing his politics to their fanatacism, good on his power-thinkers, because it IS a good strategy. I think deep down, it's just going to be a stay-in-school type of speech we all grew up hearing from past Presidents and in the end the people shouting foul are going to feel pretty dumb whether he plays their "fears" into his Health Care mumbo jumbo.

I like to refer to Tommy Lee Jones in MIB, when he says, " A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Individually, we can argue a point back and forth and clearly point out flaws and facts, but when we amass into larger group of media-sheep, we tend to feel more sane with the insanity. I like Neil Boortz' show, and find it entertaining and informative. Do I hang on every word? No. Because I am a person. Now, weaker minded people hang on the words of those they admire and find no fault with.

On the same morning, same show, a lady called and asked Neil for parenting advice, as to whether or not to keep her child home from school. As a father or three sons...I DON'T ASK TALK RADIO HOSTS FOR PARENTAL ADVICE. Equally so, I don't feel I should rely on them to form an oppinion for me. So even if the Obama Administration starts the "they were wrong about everything" barrage...I can say, "Uh, no. They were wrong about the school speech. Any other argument is valid until proven false."

EDIT: I only came here for the supernatural/UFO/9-11 Stuff...lol.

[edit on 7-9-2009 by Cotechs]