Pope TO Tell Bush He Was Wrong On Iraq

Bush can be expected to hear directly from hi Holiness John Paul II that he was wrong to invade Iraq and that the continued abuse is simply making things worse. Bush was warned by the Vatican prior to the war not to invade Iraq, but for some reason Dubya seemed to think he had a clearer path of communication directly to God.

What a jerk!

Link to the story:
iafrica.com...

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by SkepticOverlord]

"We must above all build cultural understanding between peoples and I do not believe that our American friends are doing that," he said. "Bombing mosques, going into holy places, putting women soldiers in contact with naked men shows a lack of understanding of the Muslim world which I can only call surprising," he said

Just wondering........has The Pope seen any footage of 9/11 or perhaps the 4 Americans hung from a bridge or how about the latest beheading? I think he should be meeting with the terrorist..........What a crock of sh##.

He's been condemning the violence all the way along. The fact is, our actions have proved that in many respects, and perhaps not to the same degree, we're no better than Saddam. More on point however is that the Pope is not taking one side over another. I do think it's completely realistic for the rest of the world to hold America to a higher standard. After all, that's what we believe - that we are more advanced. And personally, I'm proud of that. I'm not proud of what I've seen in the photos, but I sure don't want to counted among the barbaric animals hiding behind masks!!!

Well, CS, first we would have to agree that the Pope has some special communication capability with God, right? Then we would have to decide that his was more special than all the rest of ours, including Bush.

I'm not convinced of any of that.

If even the Pope blame GWB on Iraq, this is the end !

Originally posted by Valhall
..... to decide that his was more special than all the rest of ours, including Bush.

I'm not convinced of any of that.

Since these can only be opinions, I'll stick with the Pope for getting the story straight from the top.

What do you mean not taking one side over the other? Did he ever meet with Saddam to tell him he shouldn't torture people? Has he been trying to capture Osama?The Pope needs to spend his time straightening out the Catholic Church not chastizing our President.

AMEN

Pope isn't squat in my book.
The Pope to tell any world leader that they did something wrong is like calling the kettle black.
Pope Pius XII comes to mind, as well a 'mass' of others.



seekerof

Originally posted by Venus
What do you mean not taking one side over the other? Did he ever meet with Saddam to tell him he shouldn't torture people? Has he been trying to capture Osama?The Pope needs to spend his time straightening out the Catholic Church not chastizing our President.

AMEN

If you may recall, the Pope spent timewith Tariq Aziz prior to the war in a futile attempt to get Saddam to comply with the UN resolutions. As far as the Pope and the Church, it's not germain to the subject. However, from a practical perspective, as well as Canon Law, that's the responsibility of the Bishops.

Originally posted by CommonSense


Since these can only be opinions, I'll stick with the Pope for getting the story straight from the top.

Yeah, and I'm glad I'm of a belief that I can get my own messages through His word, left to me for that purpose, and devoid of the FALLIBLE mutterings of a senile old man who, as Venus so articulately pointed out ,has enough thorns growing in his own Papal backyard that he has no business giving gardening lessons to others.

Originally posted by Valhall

Yeah, and I'm glad I'm of a belief that I can get my own messages through His word, left to me for that purpose, and devoid of.....

Based on that quote I've got to wonder where in scripture, particularly in the New Testament, you get the message that war is OK? Especially when we invade a country rather than being invaded? Iraq didn't comply with just war doctrine. Why, because it wasn't.

Well no matter. That IS the Popes job isn't it? To keep peace and to go knock on the doors of those who are violating that part of life, whereas everyone deserves to have a peaceful life and freedom.

So you got the President fighting for freedom for the Iraqis and the Pope fighting for Peace for the rest of the world.

Who's right who's wrong? I think it's just that there are many agendas and all of them have to fit together somehow. It aint always going to be pretty. And sometimes we are going to have a failure to communicate. In the end though, I think they and we all, want what is good no matter how difficult it is to work for it to achieve.

No, don't get me wrong. I don't particularly care what the Pope does. And I am sure he does much goodness and greatness. It is THIS statement I take great issue with:

"but for some reason Dubya seemed to think he had a clearer path of communication directly to God.

What a jerk! "

And I don't particularly care that it is about Bush. I care that it is toward anyone who doesn't think the Pope is the only, or even the best, way to communicate with God.

HELLO! There's a whole lot of protestants out here that differ with the opinion that the Pope has the "clearer communication" path. In fact, there's a lot of protestants who believe the communications get clearer when the Pope's not standing in the way.

Originally posted by Valhall

"but for some reason Dubya seemed to think he had a clearer path of communication directly to God.

What a jerk! "

Vahall, don't get me wrong either. I'll have to find the exact quote Bush used after the first meeting with the Vatican rep before the war. What I took extreme exception to was Bush's arrogance! (And I voted for him!)

Well, get the quote, so that we can see for ourselves what you took offence at. But my point is, that a protestant feels they don't have to go through the Pope for communication with God is not a point to call them "a jerk" about.

Originally posted by CommonSense
If you may recall, the Pope spent timewith Tariq Aziz prior to the war in a futile attempt to get Saddam to comply with the UN resolutions.

Ya and I'll bet he and Saddam laughed their asses off for weeks after that.

When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990, Aziz served as the international spokesman in support of the military action, saying the move was justified because Kuwait's increased oil production was dampening Iraqi oil revenues. He has condemned Arab states for "subservience to the United States' hegemony in the Middle East and their support for punitive sanctions."

Aziz blamed the United States rather than the United Nations for the sanctions that followed the Gulf War, believing they were implemented as a result of U.S. government policies. He used these beliefs to back the expulsion of Americans working for the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) in 1997.

Vahall,
I'll start looking - may take a while.

Venus,
Like that sig!

CS

Common sense......
Why should Bush care what the Pope says....*sigh*
As world leader to world leader, he should respect him. But, I don't think the Pope has ANY right to admonish our President.

Unless, of course, thje Vatican is practicing for NWO, lol.
The Church has a long history of not getting it right. I could list some, but it would be off-topic.

Let's just say, the Church and the Society of Jesus are highly suspect in matters of our country.

*mutters* did you ever notice how the Church is always involved in ugly little matters on this earth...Vietnam's beginnings...WWII...Inquisition..."developing" the New World.................

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Common sense......
Why should Bush care what the Pope says....*sigh*
As world leader to world leader, he should respect him. But, I don't think the Pope has ANY right to admonish our President.

DTOM
I guess I look at it a little differently. I differentiate between the secular and religious realms. The thing that has angered me so much about Bush, or for that matter many others, is when one attempts to use religion or scripture as a weapon to defend something that is strictly secular in nature. It's arrogance to an extreme.
CS

ps: just had a good storm roll through this side of town.

Originally posted by CommonSense

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Common sense......
Why should Bush care what the Pope says....*sigh*
As world leader to world leader, he should respect him. But, I don't think the Pope has ANY right to admonish our President.

DTOM
I guess I look at it a little differently. I differentiate between the secular and religious realms. The thing that has angered me so much about Bush, or for that matter many others, is when one attempts to use religion or scripture as a weapon to defend something that is strictly secular in nature. It's arrogance to an extreme.
CS

ps: just had a good storm roll through this side of town.