Father says: Berg Died for Bush, Rumsfeld 'Sins'

Originally posted by ZeddicusZulZorander

Originally posted by Colonel
Um, no freeper. 9-11 was on Bush's watch---8 months into his presidency. Happened because Bush was on holiday for a month in Crawford a month before the attack.

I see, so whoever has the desk at the time is to blame?
Riiight.

Well KKKolonel, Clinton WAS too busy. Busy chasing intern and pardoning all his friends that were stealing money. Come now...you don't really need me to post all that stuff again for you? What were they called? Oh yeah, facts.

Sorry, that's right...you only like one-sided facts. I forgot.

Repugnants have changed the famous saying of presidents that "The Buck Stops Here" to "Errrrr uuuhhh, The Buck Stops at Clinton. There's nothing to see here. Stop asking questions."

Clinton busy chasing interns? Well, I don't have hard evidence of other presidents engaging that kind of activity recently. There were reports of paedophilia during Bush Sr's White House. Some crazy parties, apparently. I saw a newspaper headline that featured this. If I find it now, I'll post the link and the image for your personal satisfaction.

But what I do know off the top of my head is that pretty much every president, republican or democrat, has made similar pardons... usually waiting until they are about to leave office. And let's not forget Bush Sr's cozy relationship with Noriega until Nori got a bit cocky and bragged about his friendship with the former administration.

SUCCESS!!!! sorry if it ruins the thread's formatting, but you have got to read this article, republican and democrat alike.
sf.indymedia.org...


[Edited on 5/13/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

Topic should be 'Homosexual Coke Addict President Ensnares dumb Populace'.

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by dexxy]

Berg attempted to leave and was detained by Iraqi Police and the US forces for 13 days, he was released and then went missing... although the US forces deny this claim, i believe it...

And i expect there will be alot more blood on Bush and Rummys hands... wouldnt it be great if the insurgents got their hands on Rummy...

While I feel very badly for the death of Berg, I think his father is way off base. His son went into one of the most dangerous places on the face of the earth. He was 26 years old and should have known better. While I don't support Bush or Rummy on the war, for the father to blame his son's death on "their sins" is about as ridiculous as blaming the automakers if someone gets rundown trying to run across a busy expresssway in rush hour. The only "sin" found here is that of the father for failing to talk some sense into his son. He ought to remember that no where in the constitution does it state that the government shall be responsible for the prevention of personal stupidity!

I feel sorry for Berg

But why does everyone always blame bush (No im not a supporter)

ITS A WAR and they said that they were gonna take hostages Bush dosnt have any control on what the "enemy" force does or it would be called co-operation

Ok Bush/Administration did call the war but currently Iraq is a no go zone and trying to build it up now is a bad mistake as it isnt under the control of eather America OR Iraq (give and take) so you will get a lot of hostilites

I understand where Bergs dad is comming from but Bush didnt kill him it was the Jihad groups

Also Bush carnt call a war on his own (a lot of others have to suport it also) due to it being a "DEMOCROCY"

Originally posted by Colonel
Some of you all are so shameful. This man lost his son in the mnost brutal way and there is speculation that it wasn't "The evil doers" that did it (See DId the freepers casue the demise of Nick Berg---near the end) and now you blame the victims to protect this sinful administration.

when just yesterday, you were all crying for this poor American.

You ought to be ashamed.

the only speculation that it was someone other than the radical muslim pricks that actually did the cutting is coming from you, jackass....YOU are the one who should be ashamed for spreading your vapid lies day after day...I surely know that I am ashamed for you....

And the only reason you like nans is that she is so friggin stupid she makes even YOU look remotely sane....but just barely...

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

Well, in the big picture, Bush/Rumsfeld is responsible for it all. In the big picture.

But more specifically, Berg was, I wish I didn't have to say this, stupid. A war is not a place to look for contracts. A war is war and if he was planning to make some cash off of it, he should've been considering the consequences.

As much pity I feel for the guy, I can find the story kind of funny. I mean, what'd Berg expect? There would be police cars patrolling the streets? Are we that clueless as to what the rest of the world is like?

As a member of the Philadelphia media covering this story...

First
Everything youve heard about this guy seems to be true, we went to his high school, his church, his neighbors, we interviewed many people about this man and his life. He seems to be a caring person, one that was driven to try and be successful in building his business and a person that was liked and decent. One that was supportive of the president and the actions of the USA.

Anyone who is questioning this man or his motives (not just in this thread) is a sick jerk.... Ive heard lies Iraqi's detained him for a drug charge, lies that he was a spy, lies that it was the gov fault.

And Ive taken calls from people WORLD WIDE wanting to express their support for his family. As well as ones demanding justice (vengance) be served.

Mr berg appeared to know what he was doing, he went on his own volition, unfortunatly, he was not affiliated with a larger group (he was trying to sub contract to one) or part of the government. One lone American walking around in a hostile warzone is a huge target...If he was working with one of the big firms, they would have had some more security than he could have ever had alone.

My heart goes to his family, right now they are devastated and angry...its only natural that the father express feelings as he has.

Information gathered so far indicated while the family was not pro war, they were not totally against it as they are now....example...before his death the parents had made NO anti war statements to associates, yet this am, dad was pounding an anti war sign in his lawn...
Of course he would, he is in severe grief....but seems like a change of tune from family, post mortem, as they have expressed total support for their son and his desire to help people and build a business (rebuilding comm towers from war) They were ok with him profitting from constructive efforts related to war, but now blame the war that gave him the opportunities he was chasing??? Again, with the worlds media out in front of their house and the pain they are in, i can understand the insanity in their lives, but hope this
"change of attitude because of loss" idea doesnt become co-opted by those that would exploit his gruesome death to justify their political ends (IE pull out now, or worse GET BUSH)
The family can do this, but noone else should be crass in this fashion.

From AP news
FBI says agents advised Berg to leave Iraq because of dangers
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The FBI warned Nicholas Berg shortly before his disappearance that Iraq was too volatile a place for unprotected American civilians but he turned down a State Department offer to fly him home, U.S. officials said Wednesday.
Berg was detained by Iraqi police at a checkpoint in the northern city of Mosul on March 24 and was released April 6.
FBI agents interviewed Berg three times while he was in the custody of Iraqi police, said a senior FBI official who spoke on condition of anonymity. The agents told him he was in a dangerous place and could be harmed, the official said.
A few days after his release, a U.S. consular officer offered Berg a chance to fly back to America but he declined, spokeswoman Kelly Shannon said.
"He told the consular officer that he planned to travel over land to Kuwait and would call the family from there," Shannon said.
Berg's family in West Chester, Pa., has said they did not hear from him after April 9. His decapitated body was discovered Saturday by U.S. military personnel.
A video posted Tuesday on a Web site linked to al-Qaida showed Berg beheaded by a group that said it was to avenge the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.
The FBI will lead the investigation into Berg's death along with military, intelligence and other U.S. agencies.
(Copyright 2004 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.) APNT-05-12-04 1639EDT

Also (crud, my comp just locked for news access)
He was detained by Iraqi PD for HIS OWN SAFETY as they found him in a rough area where they knew people were locally hunting westerners and iranian spies in that area....Im sure he was questioned to ensure he was not a spy...ect. then he was given to the US forces.
(safer than releasing him there.)

The FBI then held him and questioned him because previously, Saccarious Moussaui (the alleged terrorist) was using Bergs college computer password...this was investigated and FBI determined it was a case of a college student being careless with his password....SO OF COURSE HE HAD A RED FLAG ON HIS FILES WHEN THE USA GOT AHOLD OF HIM....They HAD to look deeper at why Berg was there as of the previous incident. (even tho he was cleared, now he turns up in Iraq?....((not saying he did ANYTHING WRONG)) but the FEDS wouldnt have overlooked this coincidence once they had him for questioning.)

Even after they questioned him, he was released by US forces and told to go home, even offered him a lift, but he refused, wanting to try a different rout to get home.

None of these things BUSH did.
This man chose to walk this dangerous path.

Would you rather the Feds just let a lone US citizen run loose in a warzone when they not only were given him by local authorities but had already investigated this person in connection with a major terror suspect? (again he was cleared of a connection, but wouldnt you wonder about him then being found ALONE in Iraq?)

Wouldnt we have been kicking our intelligence agencies again IF, IF Berg would have not been questioned and temp detained and he ended up being involved with terrorists? (AGAIN HE IS INNOCENT!)

As my news comp crashed i am unable to get/post anymore of the links i was going to...ill try to update asap.

IN CLOSING
I understand the families statement, but if your looking for blame, start with the First person responsible, MR BERG, for choosing a dangerous path, then....and especially those masked cowards that slaughtered a bound and helpless captive. (i will choose to suffer all the abuse seen in photos from abu garib multiple times, rather than have my head sawed off with a basicly dull kitchen knife.)

Any that try to co-opt his deaths images or the prison abuse photos in order to "pin the dirt on the president" again abuses the victims thru exploitive political manipulations, and in my opinion are twisted. (direct family excluded as their minds are blown away trying to cope) You also pick their wounds by doing so.

And, more importantly, he's only one of several fathers who have said the exact same thing. THe difference being that those other fathers had uniformed sons whose lives were wasted on lies & misrepresentations in support of PNAC initiatives and COrporate Imperialism.
And stop the hype about the guy "being" in Irag: he was a partner in a family business that had successfully garnered sub-contract assignments in Iraq. NEWS FLASH FOR YOU NUMBNUTZ REPUBLICANS: there are tons of small businesses in Iraq taking the sub-contract work given out by the big boys who have the Cheney/Bush administration on their payroll.
THe only reason that he was "looking" for a contract is because his company was placed on the "Enemies of the State" hit list by Freepers & the Fascists who birthed them - prior to that he was actively working.

Berg's father said his son was Jewish and had a fringed religious cloth with him, but he did not think Berg wore the clothing in public. Still, "there's a better chance than not that they knew he was Jewish," Michael Berg said. "If there was any doubt that they were going to kill him that probably clinched it, I'm guessing."
Berg, who was unmarried, owned a small business that worked with communication equipment like radio towers, and had traveled to Third World countries to help spread technology, his family said.

He saw his trip to Iraq, his father said, as an adventure, but one that fit into his ideology. He was a war supporter and backed the Bush administration.He helped set up electronics equipment at the Republican National Convention in Philadelphia in 2000.

HE WAS THERE BECAUSE HE CHOSE TO BE....No one made him go....he was on a little adventure...how nice! Had he NOT BEEN THERE....he WOULD NOT have been detained nor would he have been beheaded. Freakin Democrats want to make a mountain out of every mole hill that pops up.

Isn't this "freakin" conveninent. Now, we blame the victim. We blame the victim for believing in this Bush bull# propoganda about "liberating Iraq." Maybe if Berg DIDN'T drink the Kool-Aid, he would've never gone to Iraq and he would be alive today.

Originally posted by Colonel
Isn't this "freakin" conveninent. Now, we blame the victim. We blame the victim for believing in this Bush bull# propoganda about "liberating Iraq." Maybe if Berg DIDN'T drink the Kool-Aid, he would've never gone to Iraq and he would be alive today.

No, I think you are the one who is laying blame here.

Should it matter whether or not he believed in the war? I don't think so. He was doing his job and trying to make money. He saw oppurtunity in Iraq and that led him there, not his support of the war.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
the only speculation that it was someone other than the radical muslim pricks that actually did the cutting is coming from you, jackass....YOU are the one who should be ashamed for spreading your vapid lies day after day...I surely know that I am ashamed for you....

And the only reason you like nans is that she is so friggin stupid she makes even YOU look remotely sane....but just barely...

[Edited on 13-5-2004 by Affirmative Reaction]

You vile and demonic son of Cain. There are MANY questions about the video as well as the timing of the video. So, as a PATRIOTIC American I have A DUTY to question my government and what it tells me is true. YET, YOU WOULDN'T KNOW THAT, YOU GOOSE-STEPPIING NAZI. Just like the simple retard that you are, you blindly follow whatever the that criminal sonofabitch Bush and his repugnant leadership tells you.

"Uh, yep. Bush said dem ragheads were the "E-vile doers. We need to just blow 'em all to hell and let God sort 'em out."

You just listen to anything that you are told like the automoton that you are. Ya know, I'm really thinking that you might just be marginally retarded.

[Edited on 14-5-2004 by Colonel]

Do you believe that a person is responsible for his actions?

If so, then Mr Berg was responsible for putting himself into a dangerous situation. a situation which resulted in his execution. He didnt cut off his own head, but he did contrubute to his ending up being taken captive.

Bout time,
where are you getting your info from
Im sitting in a TV newsroom, working with local reporters as well as crews from Germany, England and Japan. I havent heard ANY of your allegations from family or their spokespeople that their company was on any gov ban list??? Also, from the family, he was NOT working at the time, and was seeking a position with a company at the time he dissappeared..yes he had done a few jobs but was trying to get picked up by one of the majors.

to diverge
watch his beheading again and explain to me that there are NOT people in iraq that would do this....if they are there, then our army is in the right place to find them....
we will find them

PART OF the starategy of going there was to give the people bent on destroyiong the west a target, ONE OF OUR CHOOSING AS TO TIME AND PLACE....
and it worked, we lured many wackos that could never gotten into the US to fight us, a big chance to become martyers by putting our millitary out to them as bait...they bit it off and now the world has a few thousand less wacko's running around....YEAH!!!! Or would you rather we sit and do nothing until an american city is again attacked....there are other places in the world on the "hit list"...Ghadafi figured out he didnt want to be the next domino to fall....there is NO place fundamentalist radicle jihad using terrorists can hide. not in agfan, not in iraq...not ANYWHERE is safe from USA's scruteny
thats good, as the terrorists have said no where on earth s safe from them, not even muslim countries...
well mabey SPAIN is safe now....LOL

Wow, I support Colonel. This is a first ever.

Anyways, Berg goes over to help rebuild Iraq, ends up with his head cut off. Who is to blame? According to the ignorants and republicans, blame the victim. According to the smart people on this planet, blame the people who killed him, both directly and indirectly. In other words, the man with the sword in his hand and the man with the power to declare war on a country because they "might" or "could" have WMD's. Sorry, but Austria "might" or "could" have WMD's, yet we don't invade them.

Well, Bush Administration is to blame. And for people who blame Clinton for 9/11, who was the president for the 8 months before 9/11? Who was the MAN IN CHARGE for 8 months before 9/11? Bush, not Clinton. It's like saying the reason Lincoln was shot was because Buchanon did something. Or the reason Bush Sr. screwed up was because of the guy before him. Reason John Adams lost his second election was because of George Washington. Reason the Great Depression happened was because of say, Andrew Jackson. Blaming a past president for the current president's screw ups doesn't work. If the guy is suppose to be in charge, then what happens is his fault, not the president one, two, or ten terms before him jackass.

...for blaming Clinton is because he failed to "take out" Bin Laden in 1998 when he supposedly had a chance.

Blaming Bush for Berg's death is not exactly right, IMHO. Yes, he put us in Iraq, for reasons that have become unfounded, but he did what thought needed to be done with the information that he had. Berg went over there to expand his business, and got caught. What I am more interested in is why he was held by us or Iraqis (whoever) for two weeks...

Originally posted by natas
And a UFO just landed on the White House! They proved that the Bush family were all aliens!

You'll believe anything, won't you? No matter how much heresay it is, as long as it is against the Bushes, you are all for it and support it. You should try taking off the liberal blinders that you wear and try to see things in a more moderate light.

Oh well...

The liberals blinderes have been taken off..... I too feel like #... Why don't I change my avatar

Originally posted by Homer Jay
Yet again, Nan, I find your overwhelming ignorance, stupidity, and emotional hyperbole to be simply breathtaking.

I couldn't have said it better. A lot of American Soldiers also had their breath taken from them. This all came from orders in the whitehouse. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The UN wasn't ready was a coalition led war against Iraq, and apparently neither was Bush's America.

Originally posted by natas
Not in Algeria, it doesn't...

That's not funny.