USA vs Russia: military spending is misleading

Many look at the numbers with awe and think that with so much spending, no other country can come close when in fact it is actually not that a big difference. The USA 's 500 billions against Russia's 15 billion defense budget.


1: Salaries
The US military employs more people and those people are paid way more. Think about it, every soldier every scientist. A russian scientist may earn what 15k a year whereas a US counterpart easily over 50k.

2: equipment and material
I am sure you have already come across the figure of 10,000 bucks for an army toilet seat. That is the sad reality that the military buys from priviledge contractors and the prices are beyond belief, this beefs up the spending a lot too.

3: fuel
Russia has its own huge natural reserves of oil and gas. I will let you guys guess how much the US military spends a year on foreign fossil fuels

4: doctrine
The US doesnt look at the spending and the Russians try to save as much as possible while remaining efficient. And the military industrial complex needs such spending to keep the country economy afloat and people employed.

5: ongoing wars
Huge money drain, if Russia was waging 2 wars like the US, the budget would be much much higher.

Thats my .02c

The U.S. military also has a nasty habit of canceling projects after money has been poured into them. In Russia, the same people with the same mindset hold onto power longer... And more importantly, their military is run by their MILITARY.

Here in the United States, if you want a project to completion, you better get a WHOLE lot done in the first 8 years. Shamefully, the stranglehold politics has over our country's defense is one of our most sickening and ridiculous weaknesses.

Oh, and of course there's also a big difference in how much something costs to get done when you tell a company, "Make this now," as opposed to what happens to "Please make this... We'll pay anything!"

One thing to consider is that Russia is ex-communist, so their veteran military leaders are disciplined to consider efficiency long before money. The mindset of the people in the military is similar, they aren't there to get paid as much as they are there to fight (whether volunteer or conscript).

I am 100% sure from years of studying both militaries that Russia waits until the US develops a really expensive weapon (carriers/stealth aircraft/etc), then they develop a cost effective weapon specifically designed to destroy these American weapons.

Also, Russia is much more involved in civilian defense. On top of their functional anti-missile shield, they have a series of superbunkers to protect a large portion of their population. Apparently the US only has a handful of civilian bunkers that are not even close to Russian standards. I read this awhile ago and it was an interesting read, but I cannot remember exactly where it was (sorry).

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
One thing to consider is that Russia is ex-communist, so their veteran military leaders are disciplined to consider efficiency long before money.

Either you never lived in the USSR, or you must have been very young or something. Your concept of former communist Russia is just dead wrong. Efficiency? Puh-leeze.

Also, Russia is much more involved in civilian defense. On top of their functional anti-missile shield, they have a series of superbunkers to protect a large portion of their population.

Moscow and other large cities have the subway, portions of which can function as bunkers. Defense industry centers have some shelters as well, but it's a huge overstatement that any significant portion of Russian population is properly protected.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
One thing to consider is that Russia is ex-communist, so their veteran military leaders are disciplined to consider efficiency long before money.

Either you never lived in the USSR, or you must have been very young or something. Your concept of former communist Russia is just dead wrong. Efficiency? Puh-leeze.

I wish I could live in the USSR, but unfortunately I was born in the days of its change.

And it's not wrong at all, it all has to do with the philosophy of communism vs capitalism. In the US, it is all about opportunity and in order to have opportunity you need money. You can be the smartest and most devoted person to ever exist, but it won't mean anything in the US if you do not have money.

In USSR, money means little because communism bypasses that corruption by giving all of the power to the government. The government was in charge of taking care of every individual in terms of job, housing, etc. If you had potential to be something then the USSR made sure you had that opportunity, as long as you were devoted to their cause. Communism is a political ideal based on efficiency, not popularity and lucky opportunity like capitalism.

Sure, the USSR was not perfect in its execution of communism but they were the ones who first implemented it and face it, Russian culture is more about the individual and not big on total government control or maintaining it (which is why they are democratic now). I speak of all this as a Canadian, and I live in a dual capitalist/socialist system. From my experience, the only good that the government has done was the socialist aspect and it is the capitalist side that pisses everyone off. Plus the government tries its best at accommodating anyone with serious potential but if you are a free spirit then they will drop you between the cracks.

Also, Russia is much more involved in civilian defense. On top of their functional anti-missile shield, they have a series of superbunkers to protect a large portion of their population.

Moscow and other large cities have the subway, portions of which can function as bunkers. Defense industry centers have some shelters as well, but it's a huge overstatement that any significant portion of Russian population is properly protected.

I was not exaggerating, it was an actual report that I read somewhere and I wish I had access to it right now to show you. Moscow is indeed a fortress with its massive underground facilities and air defense complexes (S-400), but bunkers were constructed all over Russia during the cold war.

Re-opening of some bunkers (link) I quickly tried looking up bunker stats for both the US and Russia but this is the best I can find. It states that there are 266 bunkers in and around Vladivostok alone.

[edit on 19-8-2009 by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi]

reply to post by buddhasystem


military industry was extremely efficient.

""""The USA 's 500 billions against Russia's 15 billion defense budget. """""


The Soviet Union dissolved (restructured) a few years ago and they don't owe military retirements to people. The new Russia now doesn't have to spend big money on retirement checks to its military....look at all the Territory/People it DITCHED......

And now AMERICA is pouring MEGA BILLIONS into those former Soviet Territories trying to buy them off as our friends. The Soviets figured out how to break America's bank....by its own stupidity and greed.


Historians will be studying what Russia did for thousands of years.


Not only is America being silly and pouring BILLIONS into former Soviet Territories.....our Defense money has to pay military retirements to 3.5 million.....which is more money than what China and Russia together pay their Active military.

And we can't afford an Active military anymore. CheckMate. We're only still going because we have schemes going to kill our own to generate jobs/revenue/get currency moving at a pace to keep it all together a little bit longer.

That's why the US Debt is $15 Trillion and growing by the second. Why Saudi Arabia said they weren't accepting US dollars for oil....why America is fracking the US to get Natural Gas to keep going.......even if it means it will destroy the nations last areas of clean drinking water.

Death throws of a dying Nation. And the Super Committee in Congress will do nothing and the automatic shutdowns occur...or WAR. Survival is a beaoch.

The LAST thing the United States would do is dissove an active military ot have severe cuts to its military spending, the US is a militerized nation if nothing else. You may think that the US is anything else but that is not true, the real string pullers of the American way is the Military. 500 billion is a drop in the bucket when it comes to the facts of there spending, just imagine what money is not accounted for.

As for Russia vs the US in spending, America does have larger bills to pay, but that is all covered that is why our budget is so big, we need to pay our bills and constantly develop faster than out opponents. Its a race of technology and arms, always has been, always will be.

Of course, US is not 30 times stronger then Russia. But still, the difference is huge. Lower wages provide lower quality (look at all the Russian scientists that are working outside Russia) , and conscription army is less professional then ,ehm, a professional one.
Russian generals get much less new killing shiny toys to play with then US ones, and majority of military hardware is pretty old.From Soviet times.
So in WW2 style war i will safely bet on US. Larger population, better industry base,superiority in air/naval power ,much better technology and ctr.
But since WW3 means thousands of nukes flying around , my bet will be on international roaches cartel.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

The government was in charge of taking care of every individual in terms of job, housing, etc.

Too young to remember images of the hundreds of Russians waiting in line for bread or toilet paper? They didn't do such a good job of taking care of "every individual." How many people can you fit in a single apartment???

I would not be that sure the Russian money is well spent. Privileged contractors are common everywhere, plus little businesses ran by the local military "lords" not willing to live with the official military income..