U.S. economy has bottomed: George Soros

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I don't think it's exactly Fake. Maybe it's built on weak things, etc. But it's hardly fake. Tell that to the homeless.

It's fake, it's called legal counterfeiting.
The FED prints money out of thin air, more than the currency is worth
what do you think will happen in the near future?

As I mentioned before, all of the controls on the market are like this.

You can Increase interest rates to get more people interested in purchasing debt.

You can lower interest rates to get more people interested in acquiring debt.

The market itself will cause inflation to adjust as well. And we also have a hand in that by printing more money.

They are all tweaks on an organic system.

FIAT Money = Fake Money
FIAT Money = Legal Counterfeiting
FAIT System = Slavery

I'm sorry but you obviously have slavery mixed up with something else.

This is slavery:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/a35fabdc3bd6c484.jpg[/atsimg]

That was real... those scars... those weren't metaphors for political corruption.

reply to post by IDK88


No is not, he is like another cheerleader getting the nation ready for the next holidays that is going to be the worst we will ever see in the history of this nation.

US Trade Gap Widens in June on Oil Prices

So the Obama stimulus is stimulating once again China, but America about to lose 1 half million people their unemployment benefits will think different, still the Cheerleaders see the trade gap that now will be widening due to more Chinese imports last month as a good thing, because people will have more goody's to buy this holidays.

What a joke, I bet that the 1 half million people about to lose or losing their unemployment benefits will be lining up in Wal-mart for early Christmas Shopping.

The U.S. trade deficit widened in June to $27.0 billion, as goods imports increased for the first time in 11 months on the back of higher oil prices, a Commerce Department report said on Wednesday.

Analysts surveyed before the report had expected the monthly trade gap to widen to around $28.5 billion. But stronger foreign demand for U.S. goods and services offset some of the impact of the oil price increase on the deficit.

So the gains on the trade gap due to lack of consumers spending during this crisis is about to end with China increase on imports to the US.

Yes we are stimulating alright, but is not Americas consumer pockets.

Bottoming my butt, soros needs to retire as a financial adviser.

www.cnbc.com...





[edit on 12-8-2009 by marg6043]

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
As I mentioned before, all of the controls on the market are like this.

Do some research first
Seriously, do some research before responding

Yes there are many fiat systems around the world
But see if they print as much money out of thin air as the U.S. does.
Go ahead, research it!

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
You can Increase interest rates to get more people interested in purchasing debt. You can lower interest rates to get more people interested in acquiring debt.

You are trying to make people want to buy things that they don't want to buy is what you are referring to.
If people don't want to buy it because it then it has no value, don't prop up things of little or no value.

That was real... those scars... those weren't metaphors for political corruption.

Understand what FIAT is
Do some research then come back
If they print sooooo much money out of thin air
Understand what FIAT is
The gold standard had gold backing up money

What you need to understand is what backs up FIAT
Once you understand that you'll know why I mentioned slavery
It'll probably sink in your head better if you research it on your own

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
You can Increase interest rates to get more people interested in purchasing debt. You can lower interest rates to get more people interested in acquiring debt.

You are trying to make people want to buy things that they don't want to buy is what you are referring to.
If people don't want to buy it because it then it has no value, don't prop up things of little or no value.

That is the job of Soros and the government right now, to push people that still have a job into getting more Chinese crap for the holiday season with more colorful trinkets in the stores Shells that by the way they have been lacking lately.

That is why the trade gab was narrower because Americans were not buying now that imports are to be increases the good news about the narrowing trade gap will go back to the an increase in trade deficit.

NO, good for a recovering economy, but we now that is not such thing as recovery YET.

Originally posted by muzzleflash
The average citizen is helping the gov't scrape by. Why would they help us? They need us to help them.

Seems like that ain't working out very well for us "average" US citizens either!

Consumer, Celebrity Bankruptcies May Hit 1.4 Million

Aug. 10 (Bloomberg) -- Consumer bankruptcies show no sign of abating after rising more than a third this year and may hit 1.4 million by Dec. 31 as jobs are lost and loans are harder to get, according to the American Bankruptcy Institute.

More than 126,000 consumers filed for bankruptcy in the U.S. last month, 34 percent more than in July 2008, the ABI said in its latest report on Aug. 4. The increase came after a 36.5 percent rise in personal bankruptcies nationwide in the first six months, to 675,351, according to the ABI research group, which interprets data collected by the National Bankruptcy Research Center.

“Rising unemployment on top of high pre-existing debt burdens is a formula for higher bankruptcies through the end of this year,” ABI Executive Director Samuel Gerdano said in a statement.

The only thing I see Congress/our government (who are "supposedly looking out for "OUR" best interests!) doing is putting us deep in a hole so that they can keep on going with THEIR spending spree's!

[edit on 8/12/2009 by Keyhole]

These people do not live in the real world. These executives know that investors like seeing all of these companies cost cutting measures. The number one being outsourcing to other countries, plant closures, and layoffs. That's the cycle that's been occurring since NAFTA. The net affect is lowering wages and the standard of living for the middle class and filling the pockets of the elite. In the real world the economy isn't getting better. There have been even more factory closing in the last month than I've seen in a while. I guess if plant closings and layoffs equal better economy maybe they should rethink their guidelines.

reply to post by wisdomnotemotion


I thought the moral of the story was that GDP, Stock Prices, Gold Prices etc. etc. have no meaning whatsoever when we get down to the nuts and bolts and America's economy still exists because we have Real Production.

If people could realize that numbers can be used to support any outrageous claim they would ignore the negative assertions as well as the positive assertions all the same. The numbers don't influence the Real and we have the Real.

reply to post by IDK88


Yep.. nothing is going to stop the ingenuity that we can come up with in this country.

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
Well 300 000 000 Americans and several trillion later...why didn't they just give each American a million dollars instead?
Everybody would have spent it and put it back into the economy.It would have only cost 300 000 000$ instead of several trillion.

No help for the average citizen...only big banks and companies.
America...you are being screwed and everything is not well.

Your math is way wrong, it would only cost $300,000,000 if you gave each American $1, giving them $1,000,000 would cost $300,000,000,000,000

That's $300 Trillion.

reply to post by yellowcard


Thanks man! I thought that was a bit off..

edit:
somebody beat me to the math, please ignore

[edit on 12-8-2009 by tjack]

I hope one day everyone realizes that the real confidence game may be the people that are trying to con-vince you that all of the charts and graphs and numbers have real intrinsic meaning...without some REAL event to justify their outlooks, it is irrelevent and they know it.

Take a drive out in the Rural areas...the corn is about above my head. Lots of rain...its been a wet year. No major viruses have wiped out our livestock and the Cows are still giving milk..my water is still on as well as my lights and gas.

The things I am reading here and the things I can see with my own eyes on a daily basis aren't reconciling. I am guessing that the corn didn't read your numbers and kept on growing anyway. The Sun didn't stop shining and the clouds didn't stop raining gently upon our fields.

I think the most important thing to take from Soros' article is this...The US economy is at the bottom, if nothing else REAL happens, this is about as bad as it can get. So, if you want a collapse you are going to actually have to do something REAL to cause it. Sitting back and waiting for the inflation numbers to come in won't be enough Everything that can be done has been done and we have nothing else.

reply to post by yellowcard


Oops...shooting from the hip on that one.
Thanks for correcting me.

reply to post by warrenb


Remember that recent article by SkepticOverlord? Yeah THAT'S why the the big companies are helped first, because they have the biggest wads of cash dangled over the government executive dog's heads. All about special interest.. *sigh* I finally get WHY this stuff happens and it angers me. We citizens who poured all that money into those companies in the first place should be the first to be compensated for. If we go down those big companies come with us. I suppose they (our government executives) only care about the short-term gain since it looks a little better because they are all old curmudgeons who won't be around long enough to care about what happens in the long-term. ...

[edit on 8/12/09 by MoothyKnight]

Originally posted by DrumsRfun
Well 300 000 000 Americans and several trillion later...why didn't they just give each American a million dollars instead?
Everybody would have spent it and put it back into the economy.It would have only cost 300 000 000$ instead of several trillion.

No help for the average citizen...only big banks and companies.
America...you are being screwed and everything is not well.

Exactly. Econ 101 stuff. This isn't about saving the economy on the whole, it is about selecting which corporations get to survive (mainly their friends). If it was about the economy then they would give people money to spend and it would "trickle up". The big boys at the top are doing what the average joe is doing now, paying their debts and hoarding the rest. There is no trickle down. No one is trickling anything down. Put more than an extra $40 a month in people's pockets, let them pay some bills and then some and the money will trickle up.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

 

That being the case, do you want it to succeed or fail. That's really the biggest question.

I am stupified.

Yo Pollyanna.

Back off on the glaucoma meds.

The powers that be gave hundreds of billions to failed banks who had based earnings on pure lies which led to losses of unfathomable proportions (i.e.CRIMINALS) who immediately turned around and clamped down the coffers as if they had earned those hudreds of billions of stolen tax dollars ; although they did spend a sizable portion themselves and on the lobbyists who made our politicians a bit richer.

The economy continues to falter, the dollar continues to sink and we are looking at trillions more a year in interest for a "stimulus" that actually is holding back 400 billion until 2011-2014 to start even BIGGER government debt that will require another 90% input from the states and ultimately the taxpayers who are not going to have jobs to pay the taxes with.

The stimulus is a LIE. It is a way to finance bigger government which is a bigger tax burden.

Bigger government does not create revenue. It only spends it.

Do I want it to succeed? NOOOOOOOO!

If it succeeds then we go even deeper into the hole!

It's the same with healthcare. It is designed to break our economy.

WE DON'T WAN'T THESE THINGS TO SUCCEED!

They are intended to put working class taxpayers into the poorhouse.

They are designed to create a poverty level welfare country that has no choice but to beg for everything they get.

Why don't people see that even though our legislature is irreversably broken and our executive branch is dead set on destroying the economy so that they can control the people, MATH STILL WORKS ?

It's not about enthusiasm and good feelings. It's about the numbers.

The numbers say we're light years beyond screwed.

reply to post by yellowcard


The math may have been wrong, but the principle isn't.
If the problem was toxic mortgage debt, the Government *probably* (and I haven't looked at the exact numbers so I am going out on a limb here) could have simply given that money to the people in trouble to pay the banks.

Probably with plenty of money to spare, if my estimations of the depth of greed of these dorksuckers is right.

I'll assure you that the number of people in SERIOUS trouble *causing* this mess didn't add up to even a fraction of 300 million.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

It's all fake. So I can just go in and take the bread from the store and no one will care?
I don't think it's exactly Fake.
Maybe it's built on weak things, etc. But it's hardly fake.
Tell that to the homeless.

What objective data are you basing this assumption on?

Do your Homework! Bank created money (credit) is nothing more than fairy dust!

A PRIMER ON MONEY: (Congressional) COMMITTEE ON BANKING AND CURRENCY Source

The truth is, however, that the Private banks, collectively, have deposited not a penny of their own funds, or their depositors funds, with the Federal Reserve banks. The impression that they do so arises from the fact that reserves, once created, can be, and are, transferred back and forth from one bank to another, as one bank gains deposits and another loses deposits. [pg 37]

When the Federal Reserve purchases a $1 million Government bond and gives some bank credit for $1 million in its reserve account, that bank also credits the bond dealer's checking account with $1 million. I n other words, to acquire $1 million of reserves, the bank also assumes a liability to pay its customers $1 million. If the transactions stopped here, the bank would, of course, come out even, neither gaining anything nor losing anything. But the fact that there is now $1.million more of bank reserves than existed before means that the private banks as a group can create $6 million more money than existed before. In other words, by acquiring this $1 million more in bank reserves, the private banks have the privilege of creating another $6 million of bank deposits, in the process of which they acquire $6 million in interest-bearing securities or loan paper, less an allowance for leakage into the cash (currency) balances of the public. [pg 43]


What amount of Government securities have the private banks acquired with bank-created money?
On January 31, 1964, all commercial banks in this country owned $62.7 billion in U.S. Government securities. The banks have acquired these securities with bank-created money. In other words, the (banks have used the Federal Government's power to create money without charge to lend $62.7 billion to the Government at interest.
On January 29, 1964, commercial banks had total assets amounting to $304.7 billion, and all of these had been paid for with bank-created money, except $25.4 billion which had been paid for with their stockholders' capital. In other words, less than 10 percent of the banks' assets have been acquired with money invested by stockholders in the banks. [pg 46]

Money is Created by Banks: Evidence Given by Graham Towers Source

Q. But there is no question about it that banks create the medium of exchange?

Mr. Towers: That is right. That is what they are for... That is the Banking business, just in the same way that a steel plant makes steel. (p. 287) The manufacturing process consists of making a pen-and-ink or typewriter entry on a card in a book. That is all. (pp. 76 and 238) Each and every time a bank makes a loan (or purchases securities), new bank credit is created — new deposits — brand new money. (pp. 113 and 238) Broadly speaking, all new money comes out of a Bank in the form of loans. As loans are debts, then under the present system all money is debt. (p. 459)

Q. When $1,000,000 worth of bonds is presented (by the government) to the bank, a million dollars of new money or the equivalent is created?

Mr. Towers: Yes.

Q. Is it a fact that a million dollars of new money is created?

Mr. Towers: Yes. (p. 286)

Q. Will you tell me why a government with power to create money, should give that power away to a private monopoly, and then borrow that which parliament can create itself, back at interest, to the point of national bankruptcy?

Mr. Towers: If parliament [Canada] wants to change the form of operating the banking system, then certainly that is within the power of parliament. (p. 394)

)This is very important. Although US citizens can not exchange Federal Reserve notes for treasury gold, official and semi official foreign banks can.

Behind the Federal Reserve notes is the credit of the U.S. Government. I f you happen to have a $5, $10, or $20 Federal Reserve note, you will notice across the top of the bill a printed statement of the fact that the US government promises to pay not the Federal Reserve promises to pay. Nevertheless most Americans to do not understand what the US Government promises to pay: American citizens holding these notes cannot demand anything for them except
(a) they can be exchanged for other Federal Reserve notes or
(b) that they be accepted in payment of taxes and all debts public and private.

Certain official or semiofficial foreign banks may exchange any “dollar credits” they may hold-that is, deposits with the commercial banks-for an equal amount of the Treasury's gold. Americans themselves may not exchange them for gold . [pg 19] A PRIMER ON MONEY

This is why Congress exchanging the "bankers fairy dust" for us treasury bonds backed by the USA and US citizen taxes was so dangerous.

I suggest you also read up on fractional banking and the history of the fed.
“fractional banking”
www.thedelphicfuture.org...
www.jeremiahproject.com...

www.apfn.net...

In 1933, Congressman McFadden introduced House Resolution No. 158, Articles of Impeachment for the Secretary of the Treasury, two assistant Secretaries of the Treasury, the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, and the officers and directors of its twelve regional banks. Subsequently he was shot at twice, poisoned and had his stomach pumped, and poison a second time so he reportedly “died of the stomach flue” on Oct. 3, 1936.

Here is McFadden's speech www.apfn.net...

I do not know if anyone has breeched the subject, I am just getting to fricking worn out from reading every snippet.

The last time a depression hit the US TPTB bought everything when the economy tanked. Question, the stock market was at a 52% level when the supposed bank bailout began, now at a 78% level now.

Do you think, maybe, all the money was used to raise the stock market and purchase property and businesses at discount prices?

No, our government would never # the public like that.

I am sorry, I told my relatives 2 years ago to pull out, but they listened to their company controlled retirement analyzer, and I never pushed, I feel like such a heel.

We are so screwed.

reply to post by IDK88

when we get down to the nuts and bolts and America's economy still exists because we have Real Production. If people could realize that numbers can be used to support any outrageous claim they would ignore the negative assertions as well as the positive assertions all the same. The numbers don't influence the Real and we have the Real.

Actually that is the problem. In 1996 there were fewer manufacturing jobs than in 1970 (I looked it up in the US census numbers) Since then the World Trade Organization and NAFTA free trade agreements have accelerated the export of US manufacturing especially after China joined WTO. (1996 was the latest year with numbers for manufacturing jobs. But the 2005 WTO report said something about exporting a million US jobs to India and China if I recall correctly. The report was pulled off the internet and revised so the numbers are not available any more.)

We really do not have much of a manufacturing base left. Most jobs are government, lawyers, accountants, service and shop keepers but not MAKING stuff. On top of that America doesn't even own her industries.

Also our education stinks.

"For 10 years, William Schmidt, a statistics professor at Michigan State University, has looked at how U.S. students stack up against students in other countries in math and science. "In fourth-grade, we start out pretty well, near the top of the distribution among countries; by eighth-grade, we're around average, and by 12th-grade, we're at the bottom of the heap, outperforming only two countries, Cyprus and South Africa."
:Source

The USA is in deep DooDoo and the idiots in Congress are spending money and creating new bureaucracies without any notion of reality. Either that or they want to bankrupt the USA AGAIN.