The Death of the City, The 2nd American Revolution

We are inflicted daily with a constant barrage of threats that weaken our resolve, cause dismay, sadness, isolation and Fear within us here at Ats. These topics come down to renewed concern on a handful of issues.

The Police State, The Environment, Pandemic Disease, Resources, Energy, Revolution, Social Change and The Economy.

I wish in this thread to help guide those of you who wish to listen, through the reality of the circumstances the root cause and the method by which you can comfortably adapt and be rid of almost all of the above issues.

This thread is a reflection on the Causes of the first American Civil War (in fact many revolutions around the world) and why we are entering a similar period now.


:1

Agriculture vs Industry

The American Civil War, in school we are taught a myriad of aspects of the Civil War, Slavery and human rights is often used as a reason for the war happened... We are taught the battles and the losses and victories.

But the actual divide is rarely taught, the root cause, the necessity and the thing that was changing is hardly mentioned.

The shifts from an Agrarian society to an Industrial society... The method, civil war and break down of the existing social order.

Only the North possessed an industrial base, small as it was, before the shooting started. During the fiscal year ending 1 June 1860, the country possessed some 128,300 industrial establishments. Of these, 110,274 were located in states that remained in the Union. The most heavily industrialized states, New York and Pennsylvania, each had more industry than all the seceding states combined. In 1860, too, America had a total of $1,050,000,000 invested in real and personal property devoted to business, with $949,335,000 concentrated in the North; Pennsylvania, New York, and Massachusetts each had a larger investment than the South as a whole. Finally, the North contributed 92.5% of the $1.9 billion that comprised the total value of annual product in the country in 1860.

Excerpt from Civil War


Times were changing, there was need for the United States to adapt or face being irrelevant in the next Century

For the next 100 years, we would see the United States rise to become a super power, Our Cities grew as immigrants and Americans alike came for factory jobs, our wealth grew as our production increased, small business flourished from the demands of local Industry and the people crammed together and today's now failing street side businesses were there and numerous as pedestrian and later automobile traffic and density supported them.

To live rural for the last 150 years increasingly meant being a bumpkin, without culture, without education, without access to hospitals or stimulus...

Today we face yet again... a shift of perhaps even greater consequence. And I will argue here that the time of the City is now over and that to remain in mass is to face the fate of poor Southern Farmers in the post civil war era and that 90% of the things we conceive of as conspiracies are actually the result (conspiracy in some cases to force the issue yes) but the result of an Unstoppable shift in society from the Industrial Era to the Communication Era



2:

The Internet and Communication Era

Since the 90's we have all heard the term "The Communication Era

This is not a buzz word, this is a definition of a shift as significant and life altering as the shift from Agriculture to Industry and it encompasses many aspects of life beyond simply the Internet although like the factory it is the driving force that makes the shift possible.

Urban life is dying from a variety of failures in this new modern age.

A:

Environment, and Disease... Traffic and The Daily Commute

Cities have reach mass, most can no longer sustain much more growth, the methods of the Industrial era can not ecologically sustain 4.5 million people in LA for example going to work at the same time every day

Gas consumption and strife over Oil and it's affect on air quality is responsible for a downgrade in human life at a time when things should be better than ever...

The pollutants weaken the immune system, cause cancer

The stress and time loss in traffic does equal or greater damage... it also disrupts the family unit, parents find themselves away from kids 12 hrs a day leaving only 4 hrs a day, 2 of which will be spent consuming food and defecating.

The damage to the environment is causing restrictions on human freedoms and again pollution as effective methods of waste removal are pushed to the brink.

The OIL to maintain this Mass immigration of humans daily is the leading cause of global tensions between nations and contributes to economic hardship

Disease is spread readily on polluted transit lines where people are immune compromised from stress, toxins, poor sleep habits and poor daily dietary habits that result from... "eating on the run" and "living by the clock"

Today we once again have to fear a flu pandemic as a result

and of course in the hustle and bustle of cities that have exceeded maximum sustainability comes...

a loss of time for personal development... "the culture less American syndrome"


B:

The Police State, Violence and over crowding

is cause and effect

Working at NIMH in 1954, Calhoun launched several experiments with rats and mice. In his first series of tests, he placed 32 to 56 rodents in a 10- by 14-foot case in a barn on a Montgomery County farm. Using electrified partitions, he divided the space into four rooms. Each was designed to support 12 adult brown Norway rats. Rats could move between the rooms only via the ramps he built. Because Calhoun provided unlimited water and food as well as protection from predators, disease and weather, the critters were said to be in “rat utopia” or “mouse paradise,” Ramsden explained. “The one thing they did not have was space...He allowed the population to grow to 80 in the first instance.” As the scientist observed, a social hierarchy developed: One despot male and 9 females claimed the two defensible pens with only one ramp provided; 60 others crowded into the other 2 pens with two ramps. Calhoun found that “rodent utopia” rapidly became “hell.” He described the onset of several pathologies: violence and aggression, with rats in the crowded pen “going berserk, attacking females, juveniles and less-active males.” There was also “sexual deviance.” Rats became hypersexual, pursuing females relentlessly even when not in heat. The mortality rate among females was extremely high. A large proportion of the population became bisexual, then increasingly homosexual, and finally asexual. There was a breakdown in maternal behavior. Mothers stopped caring for their young, stopped building a nest for them and even began to attack them, resulting in a 96 percent mortality rate in the two crowded pens. Calhoun coined a term—“behavioral sink”—to describe the decay.

The first of these studies was done as far back as the 1920's as American cities swelled

Read VERY CAREFULLY the above it IS an accurate description of modern city life...

All cities have a maximum sustainable population area, when we surpass that Life becomes "HELL" instead of paradise exactly as described above

The police state is again an aspect of a failed Urban environment that has exceeded the capacity to sustain itself crime and punishment entered from a cry within our cities to an endless cycle of action and reaction resulting in a loss of human rights for everyone.


C:

Economy and Poverty

We look around and see mas consumption and everyone likes to blame the consumption for our ill's

But I would argue it is the Production that is actually the issue in a negative economy

Through the Century Computers have begun to replace many, many jobs once required for production, we don't need people to COUNT anymore, We have trucks and machines to CARRY, Homes very often are produced by Machines these days, prefabricated, Cars are built by robots...

The "JOB" as we know it does not exist

10% of America as example could readily Farm, build and produce everything, everyone needs...

NY alone produces enough Milk for the entire Nation, Tv's roll down assembly lines in China

Most jobs are low grade service industry positions... Fast food, restaurant and hotel service, telemarketing

Now... You can order anything ONLINE

People don't wast the gas to go out shopping as much, superstores can mass supply the bulk of our goods...

The small business is dead...

In crowded cities, rent prices and competition from lemmings who wish to try and be Entrepreneurs but employ a method from the 50's Rent prices sky rocket and so does Insurance... The RAT RACE was born...

The "JOBS" we were all taught to look for, Simply do not exist

Nor will they ever again in the numbers of the past despite what any politician promises...

Like the Day of the small Farm, it's time is simply done and no one can change that.

This is the root cause of ALL our problems

A change that can not be fought, A change in Technology that will never now go away aside from destroying ourselves

The CITY, Has heard it's bell toll

I do not propose that the city will go away... in time our cities will transform fully into cultural and educational hubs with lower population densities...

But for now they have become Orwellian nightmares with armed soldiers on the streets, an ever present police force, rampant crime, loss of privacy via street cameras, epidemic disease surging, poor living conditions lorded over by handfuls of wealthy individuals living in towers and on the out skirts fenced in for protection that they can never actually achieve anyway

Yes their is conspiracy behind this,

Yes from terrorism to disease to the development of thwe Internet you are being strangled and pushed out...

There is a solution CONT...

The sort of answer we are all looking for does not lay within our philosophies in the west of Industry and hard work and "paying the price" determination will only cause rapid further decline...

There is no answer to this in our way of thinking, we should not fight each other, we should not "eat the rich" we simply must:

Ride the Wave

We are being pushed into a New Era...

We can not fight this, those that push it are only amplifying what is happening of it's own natural accord or operating from a place of Fear anticipating danger and attempting to Control that danger

The answer lies in personal adaptation and recognition of what is happening and altering ones life and plans to fit the circumstances...

The answer is more eastern in philosophy... to be like the Palm tree and bend

Change with the times...

I will elaborate

The Solution, Move Rural, Start Working on the Internet

The Jobs are not coming back to a city near you

If you MUST work a job to adapt to this economic change, small business can still exist in small communities,

If your going to WORK a job for low pay, then work and buy a cheap house rural for your low pay. be home fast, be healthier...

a Prefab costs 1/10th at times in rural area what an apt purchase in NYC might afford you

sure...some of you would argue that you still manage

But the real question is for what reason?

To be enslaved just like the actual slaves that once powered our agrarian economy, to risk crime, to be hindered by police to sit in abominable traffic, to risk exposure to disease and terrorism real or created by the govt to .... drive you out anyway?

To provide your children with everything just to watch them succumb to violent inner city culture?

I recently moved...

From a major city

To a town of 60,000

15 years ago... I would never have imagined doing this, not that.... the air wasn't cleaner, the people often friendlier and life a bit slower and nicer...

But OPPORTUNITY Money and education and culture was the aspect.

Today this is No Longer the case...

This Town of 60,000

Has a world class hospital and CDC center, with only 60,000 people to attend to in the event of disease

There is a University and 2 community colleges

I live along side a national forest yet... I have high speed Internet and can connect as fast as before

A night out used to cost me 300 bucks on average

Now it costs me... 100 at most and that is by being a bit of a spender honestly I could go out for 40 if I chose to.

There is a Mall, 7 major supermarkets, 20 plex movie theater, all sorts of stuff for my kids and a mega health food center... every modern convenience access to education and health care any where any major city could provide me...

and Elk in my yard...

Where 60 days ago I Feared the police

Now I know the Police often that quickly on a first name basis

There are no cameras on the street speed trapping me,

Even if you do not employ the Internet (which is foolish in a global economy)

A house in NY in a dangerous neighbor hood costs roughly 600,000 - 1,000,000 on a mortgage

For the same space I can get land, a well of My own Water and and 4 bdrms for 150,000 and actually pay it off in a few years now...

There is no loss of anything and everything is better

Yes good jobs are scarce... but without a commute to interfere, going back to school becomes a reality, it is 6 miles from end to end... 15 minutes

go a bit outside the city and... 10 acres goes for 10,000 dollars

You can go Green, be energy independent if you choose

Your gas bill will go down massively for your car

Crime here beyond the occasional DUI or DV spat is almost non existent

I honestly do not lock my door at night

I do not have health care... but I also don't have to detox daily or become ill or cloudy from pollution, both environmental or social

I have no emissions for my car to contend with

The nearest city is only

90 minutes away if I want the hub bub

The local airport can take me for 129.00 round trip to LA, or Diego or Vegas or Denver anytime I wish to be Urban, many of you spend that on the subway or bridge tolls every single month or every week just in gas



The Internet offers every opportunity in the world to open any business I like any time I like for another 9.99 on top of my server cost.

I have Zero concern if the economy turns down, my monthly payments are minuscule, my kids can survive if I shovel horse poo and ride these years out broke... but away from danger, children, are very happy near trees and lakes...

Entertainment from hikes in the woods to snowboarding require hardly anything for the year for endless fun.

I have no crime threat practically, certainly no terrorism threat lol, no police state threat anymore, no disease threat in any major way... i will not contract TB on the subway lol, I will not get cancer from toxic dumping or emissions...

If there was an out break or nuclear war or invasion lol... i.e if the shtf

I'd have many hrs warning to prepare... and actually have the ability to survive...

There is food... walking around outside my door.... Water for everyone

and

It's not what rural once was (although smaller areas can be) Everyone has cable and Internet... my ex is in a town of 5,000 and works via computer

her house price 60,000 3/4 of an acre, for a real brick and mortar home

( I personally did not want that small and cheep and located 80 miles away )

But I have

a complete change of persona

I am happy, when most people are miserable right now...

Like I said 15 years ago this wasn't doable...

But now it is...

and it's better and it's where they are pushing you,

This IS Just like the first American Revolution

We are being pushed into a new era... and I find no longer fighting it has made me happy....

This thread is simply a statement... to change demographics to eliminate these issues...

To go with the times...

At a glance (and I resisted it for years) our notion of the a Modern age invokes images of towering buildings and flying cars and ultra modernism.

But I have come to see....

It really, the REAL future is one of eco sustainable rural housing away from the burbs and cities which have become ghettos

Not flying cars, but little need of cars beyond going to the store or vacationing

The real future is being able to connect to the world from a farm or cabin... with solar electricity and Internet jobs and satellite tv's

The city will be violent with few jobs and opressive technology tracking your every move

It's time is simply done...

The American dream doesn't exist in the burbs for you and I and a normal income range...

It's a Million dollars for a crack head to rob you on the way to work...

It's cops you don't know with automatic weapons

It's ultra dependence on the system, for food and water and money

The jobs aren't coming back...

Obama promised "Change"

But he wont deliver... society as a whole is changing and it's away from the urban environment again...

The Internet was built because... they wanted this... de centralized targets... America is weak with 90% of the population and money crammed into a few locations easy to strike

This I see as the REAL reason for false flags... to drive the companies off wall street to push us away from this system which is in decay

Just like they did prior during and after the first civil war

and... I can not fight it...

But I can comprehend it and know what to do and advise others

This IS NOT a Thread about SHTF survival...

No, it's simply about where things are going... you don';t need the rifles, and stock pile and bomb shelter, you don't need to flee to a remote island...

You do need to start, abandoning the city unless your in some great position or very young and wanting to "experience" more

It's not about the end

it's about a New beginning and what the future really looks like,

It's not about avoiding Armageddon... or some plot to kill us all

It's about avoiding crime as best you can, being healthier, beating the system... being happy

I have no prediction of Doom...

Just of a Change as fundamental to our societ as the shift from agriculture to Industry was

will there be an actual revolution again or simply a silent one? will more wars follow will a city be nuked?

I don't know... maybe, hopefully not

But in age of advanced technology i will predict this....

Jobs will be scarce and wont be coming back

Disease will spread fast and first in urban environments...

If there is a war you will be screwed

With national health care you wont Know your doctor

You in a police State will not know the local cops either

If there is a real emergency it will be handled by fema

The streets will be violent even if that violence is from the police themselves

Your taxes will be higher

the air polluted

The classrooms fuller

you will pay 5x for a house

and if you want money... unless your one of the few BIG professions Doctor, Lawyer... you wont get what you need aside from the Internet anyway eventually

You will despite a world of culture go out less and be less healthy because it is difficult to pay 17.00 a drink

You will spend more on everything and be taxed worse



The city is DEAD

The suburbs are expensive Ghettos

Shift Happens

Go with the Flow


















































[edit on 11-8-2009 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


EXCELLENT THREAD.......Great explanation on the Civil War as well. Wow, I had never heard of that rat experiment, wow---is that not a direct relation to how humans act! I agree totally with the premise of your thread as well, that is really the only way to change our rapidly decaying situation. Again, excellent thread.

reply to post by jkrog08


Thank you J, Much appreciated...

Even as a futurist it took allot of consideration for me to make these changes...some like working via the Net I started years ago, others like abandoning the city 6 weeks...

It doesn't fit the sci fi version of futurism I had been led to believe my whole life...

or anyone's probably...

But this I see is definitively the real direction

(I held the above spot with a pp then finished adding info btw...)

I admit it was a bit scary and not even easy... it's a big change...

But it's mandated at this point and time... and it WORKS

reply to post by mopusvindictus


This ties in great with SO's new thread actually. At this point I am heavily in favor of your method of change as the only practical way of changing our very, very bad course right now. If things continue as they are I foresee the US either not existing or being TOTALLY different in 30-50 years (max).

In reflection of the opening comments about the civil war

Only the North possessed an industrial base, small as it was, before the shooting started. During the fiscal year ending 1 June 1860, the country possessed some 128,300 industrial establishments. Of these, 110,274 were located in states that remained in the Union. The most heavily industrialized states, New York and Pennsylvania, each had more industry than all the seceding states combined. In 1860, too, America had a total of $1,050,000,000 invested in real and personal property devoted to business, with $949,335,000 concentrated in the North; Pennsylvania, New York, and Massachusetts each had a larger investment than the South as a whole. Finally, the North contributed 92.5% of the $1.9 billion that comprised the total value of annual product in the country in 1860.

I would say that an exact Mirror situation exists in the technology and telecommuting sectors...

You need to examine only Amazon and E-bay and GOOGLE and Microsoft and hundreds of other companies...

EVEN ATS

The factor in work at home moms, tele commuters, internet marketers, web designers...

to realize where aside form the OLD Money all the wealth out there really lies atm...

It is certainly not in the hands of Industrial labor

What we describe as TPTB

really amounts to those from The Industrial Era... who control the Mass media, who push Network TV who... want us in that car every morning

But the reality is...

Like the southern plantation owners they face their last stand...

even in trying to hold on and fight they sink Billions attempting to stop a Wave...

and a Wave is unstoppable

The really Money is in Companies like Apple and Google and others...

My only Bank I use regularly is Paypal...

(feel free to ask for donation link lol)

Open a store in the hood and pay 10,000 RENT

Open a store on the net and pay 9.95 a month until you need a server and then maybe 500 bucks..

There is no comparison

Open a store in the hood and have a draw of 10,000 locals

Open a store on the net pop in a forum and sell your stuff TO China....

Get a Job and go to Walmart and Buy from China

The end is not near...

We just need to adapt and open our eyes to what is really happening.

The Internet Economics in numbers looks ALLOT like the comparison above between rural and Industrialized America at the start of the civil war.

reply to post by jkrog08


It's just the trend and any Individual doesn't HAVE to follow the trend but if MANY don't, We can not grow or have peace... it will come forced upon you by things like swine flu and terrorism and police action in your cities and govt interference in your life...

Or just like many who didn't see this coming, losing your home and having to live in a tent until you find a job elsewhere which 100's of thousands of Americans are going through right now...

I'm as sick of the police state as anyone else...

It doesn't exist here, the cops walk a beat downtown lol and wave hello... they ARE maniacs about dui... but you have to be an idiot to drive drunk when there are Deer on the road in numbers and no street lights...

If national health care goes through... it will be a heck of allot easier to get the treatment i want from DOC... as opposed to Cedar Sinai

More than anything at this size, the Fed can push whatever they want and it means squat if the community doesn't chose to enforce...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


You know I just posted something in SO's thread about how technology and Capitalism are incompatible. Funny you said that...

reply to post by jkrog08


I actually do believe that technology and capitalism are compatible...

I just think the picture of it is so vastly different than what science fiction usually shows us that most of us can't even recognize it for what it is and isn't.

The City, the images from star wars and other fims of vast city covered planets might be an eventually future a thousand years down the road...

But for now population growth and city living are just utterly incompatible, the technology will have to advance along with are human nature as well...

Most of us are still way to rooted to our animal needs to even coexist well in the environment and be happy and not stressed out.

I see,

the return of the small 1 acre perhaps family farm, different a pool sized area growing various sea food items, a green house to avoid plant disease, recycling, compost, even chickens for eggs, some fruit trees, solar and wind power on 24/7 feeding the system...

spread out away from the city... blending into the environment

The internet being your work place

Most of your home underground, for energy conservation and to allow the natural environment and farm aspects to exist above you...

In this situation, your using almost 80% of the land above to produce food and energy and serve as a natural environment, yet you would have most of the acre underneath for habitation... and work, modern work communications work, intellectual work... the other 20% is windows and ventilation where you can see outside and enjoy it...


and this is not far off... this is basically very much what people do here, recycle, good bike paths, lots of solar work from home, houses are above ground but blend into the trees....

and there is a small city of 60,000 this way a nice down town plenty to do....

and the forestry service employs allot of people... taking care of the environment...

there is a major wind farm being built in a flat about 20 minutes away right now... many people live off the grid for power, yet have full modern communications, big tv's comp's Internet....everything, every modern convenience...

Economically while Obama leans to Marxism which FAILED

what we should be looking at is genuine socialized capitalism, and sadly as a whole that's not where we are heading

I'd say while Gene Roddenberry was off base on allot He got the economic system right...

your basic needs provided for with every opportunity provided to rise above via capitalism... just not Capitalism by mandate or you die in the street.

reply to post by mopusvindictus
Interesting post especially about the root causes of the Civil War,Mopusvindictus.But I disagree with the futurist ideas you have they bare some similarity to what Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge tried to do in Cambodia move most of the population out of the cities and into the country and we all know what happened next.


"To keep you is no benefit, to destroy you is no loss."-Khmer Rouge

reply to post by mike dangerously


Well like I said, this wouldn't be viable in terms of a life, even 15 years ago here in the states...

let alone during that whole fiasco

But I'm not presenting it just from a view point of me being happier...

I'm taking it as there is genuine intent, conspiracy if you will behind the entire thing, the Military's invention of the Internet...

I believe the city Can't sustain itself anymore... and that the intent is to decentralize the economy and people for Military reasons and for economic reasons and for environmental reasons

and that they did the same thing during and post the Civil War

I just think there's no fighting the situation, that the decisions were made based on trends in technology and demographics... they just push it faster by these mechanisms

Capitalism is based on the free market.

The Free Market" has never even truely been scene.

Look into austrian economics.

You will see that a free socitey, relys on the freedom to buy, sell and trade with one another.

Laws will always be here.
So will goods.

I commend this post and the autor for understanding the INTERNET is the best example of a true free market.

Freedom reigns on the internet.

Our enemy should be internet 2 or any controlled prototype.

Word....

reply to post by The_Brave


Agreed, any system of control they try and put on the Internet should be fought aggressively.

It is the greatest hope for true Intellectual, Political and Economic freedom we have right now.

Good thread Mopus

I think once a city breaks 100,000 people it becomes "urbanized", but anything under that 100k mark usually seems far more "small town-like".

That is why I always prefer to stay in cities around the size of 80k-95k. Just enough people to have everything you could want/need, and just few enough to keep it from becoming a rat race.

I agree with your sentiments. Just as Michio Kaku said, we are experiencing the birth pangs of a type 0 civilization turning into a type 1 civ.

The old ways are disappearing and the new ways are becoming inevitable. This has been going on for our entire history actually. We are always in a state of change.

Very insightful post.

I grew up on a farm and moved to the BIG city when I was 18 and then to a smaller one where I reside now. I'm still pretty young so there's things about urban life that I'm not ready to give up just yet, but I really can't see myself settling down here.

The whole economy is a game of musical chairs. I just want to make my own chair, burn one down, and enjoy the tunes...

excellent thread. That would be ideal but some people just can't live that lifestyle. We can't really blame the cities or anything, it just human/animal nature to behave this way. Like you said that is the thing that needs change, but i just can't help seeing another civil war about to take place, but for the wrong cause. Just can't shake it off.

Great thread.

My family and I moved to a rural area too. Life moves slower. There is less police presence. The cost of living is lower. The only problem I see coming is, everyone else is catching on to the same idea and moving to rural areas too.

When I first came to this area, there were less people. The population is growing, and the natives are fighting to keep housing tracks out. It is inevitable,but I really feel sad to see urban sprawl taking over my nearest little city.

May have to go even further off the grid....

Would also like to see the return of neighboring. It's important to get to know at least one neighbor, and help each other out in rough times.

Great thread. My father moved to the mountains outside of san diego 10 years ago for some of these reasons. I stayed in the city and every other year i would move from the beach back to the mountains because of the simpler life. Not as many problems ,people,cheaper, sustainable lifestyle ......I would find myself moving back to the beach and within a yr or 2 I would get sick of the city again and go back to the mountains. You make so many good points its hard to touch on all of them. This shift has been happening for a while and now it looks as if its gaining pace.

I think the twenty years from 1990 to 2010 will be remembered as the transition between the Industrial/modern and Information/Post-modern ages.

I think however cities will only become more important, they will just have to move agriculture into the cities.