Christianity : The Frankenstein Religion?

Ok - I think the subject of this thread is summed up pretty well in the title. I'll be honest - this is something I know a little bit about, but I would like to know a lot more if there is anyone out there who could help.

I have heard little bits and pieces - certain Christian celebrations and festivals are 'tributes' to old pagan rituals. Some Christian symbolism is directly taken/lifted from other religious beliefs.

It has also been alleged on this site that the figure and story of Jesus Christ is unoriginal, and was based on little bits and pieces from the lives of leading figures from other less mainstream/successful religions.

Can anyone help?

The devil wants to be God. And by doing so, he mocks God and copys God as well. All in a way to decive man from knowing the truth of God. All those who use the claim that Jesus steals from other religions and cults, watched zeitgeist too many times.

reply to post by Millions


frankenstein? so lets get started from the head part...christians are those whose belief or faith are centered on the life and teachings of someone named christ, which actually is a common name for a roman/greek blok.
Vatican has officially declared dec. 25 his birthday and that every lenten and easter seasons he died and rose and that would be every year in and out.
a kind of thing that is celebrated by the merry folks of england and europe even before vatican became a city and zeistgest still wasnt on the production roll.
Virgin birth, well during those times when population control wasnt an issue for the status quo no one does abortion so who cares wether it was a virgin birth or whatever, the thing is they take good care of their babes untill they grow to be a teenager and let them loose.
so they become rebels trying to find a reason for their existence and middle east that time is rife with all the images of dionysus, zoroaster,
nissan mazda,Ra, mitra etc.etc. not to forget the original fierce zealots and the loyal romans with their planetary gods.
frankenstein is a mild word my friend, godzilla could have been "appropriate"...

Apparently, the whole 'virgin birth' story isn't even original....?

I'm looking for the original, pre-christian version, but am struggling. Can anyone give any advice on where to look?

Originally posted by Millions

Apparently, the whole 'virgin birth' story isn't even original....?

I'm looking for the original, pre-christian version, but am struggling. Can anyone give any advice on where to look?

The Virgin Birth story is Egyptian, the Christians just substituted Mary for Isis.

The English anthropologist James Frazer explained it in his "The Golden Bough", and called these stories "the Formula of the Dying God". In the various myths, a sun god is born to a virgin, teaches lots of good stuff, then is murdered and resurrected. Jesus was the Jewish version of this myth.

reply to post by Millions

It has also been alleged on this site that the figure and story of Jesus Christ is unoriginal, and was based on little bits and pieces from the lives of leading figures from other less mainstream/successful religions.

LIES ,ALL LIES!!!! Jesus Christ is alive. each person must find
this out for themselves. seek and you will find. or don't . the choice is
yours. get a bible w/ the words of Christ in red. read them all the way through.

I'm looking for the original, pre-christian version, but am struggling. Can anyone give any advice on where to look

there isn't one.

[edit on 10-8-2009 by randyvs]

reply to post by Millions


Religions have been around since the dawn of mankind it's seems that some people can't seem to do anything without the help of a deity. Religions are still used to control people and there were around prior to most governments. Then governments came, and they have been working together every since.

The early years of the United States the fore fathers 'did not want any part of religion in the government' but because pressure from the religious groups politician soon found out the was the way to get elected, so they play the 'god' card every time they had a chance. Once they have a person involved with some type spiritual way of the life they become easier to control at that point any that has a little different way of thinking becomes your enemy. Look at the past eight years! Really now the war in Iraq over Gog and Magog, get real, but that is a prime example of where all of this can come down to.

Those sheep herders with the sheep grazing them in the hot sun with very little to drink or eat, it doesn't make me wonder why they seen'God', that my friend it a no brainer. Do some research and find this out for yourself. Everyone want want proof of how everything works, except for those who believes in a religion. But they have a word for that called faith!

The bible is a nice book to read and there are a huge number of people saying that it is written by god, really why would a”God' need people to write a book. After making the Earth a book seems so simple! Besides if it took him seven days to build one Earth and he had to rest, then he still would be making worlds as I type! Do the math.


Tru

Originally posted by Millions
Ok - I think the subject of this thread is summed up pretty well in the title. I'll be honest - this is something I know a little bit about, but I would like to know a lot more if there is anyone out there who could help.

I have heard little bits and pieces - certain Christian celebrations and festivals are 'tributes' to old pagan rituals. Some Christian symbolism is directly taken/lifted from other religious beliefs.

It has also been alleged on this site that the figure and story of Jesus Christ is unoriginal, and was based on little bits and pieces from the lives of leading figures from other less mainstream/successful religions.

Can anyone help?

More than this, biblical stories are often re-tellings of previous religions, i.e. Epic of Gillgamesh v.s. Noahs Ark

Originally posted by Millions
Ok - I think the subject of this thread is summed up pretty well in the title. I'll be honest - this is something I know a little bit about, but I would like to know a lot more if there is anyone out there who could help.

I have heard little bits and pieces - certain Christian celebrations and festivals are 'tributes' to old pagan rituals. Some Christian symbolism is directly taken/lifted from other religious beliefs.

It has also been alleged on this site that the figure and story of Jesus Christ is unoriginal, and was based on little bits and pieces from the lives of leading figures from other less mainstream/successful religions.

Can anyone help?

"History is filled with examples of those whose lives—real or imagined—share certain traits with the well-documented life of Jesus of Nazareth. Such accounts often compose a portion of the curriculum in college-level comparative religion courses, and provide a fine starting point for any study about the uniqueness of Jesus. "

I offer this as a start:

www.apologeticspress.org...

reply to post by Millions


Just google 'christians pagans' and go from there. There are alot of sites which explain the similarities between christianity and other religions and the reasons behind it, like how the christian 'devil' it actually a demonized version of the celtic horned god cernennus. I love the internet.. nowhere to hide all these dirty little secrets, even typing 'Christianity paganism" into wikipedia will get some good info. But here are a few sites to get you started:

www.pocm.info...

www.seiyaku.com...

www.religioustolerance.org...

Read all the Gnostic gospels.
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of Judas
Gospel of Thomas

The books of Enoch

The Aquarian Gospel
en.wikipedia.org...

Personally I have been there done that bought the T shirt and now use it to dust.

reply to post by Millions


You will not find your answers on this site, my friend. Most everyone here is a resident "expert" because they surf the web and read other people's reprocessed work.

I recommend you speak with people that actually had the discipline to get a PhD in the subject who make next to nothing versus people who piece together bits and pieces in a sensationalistic way in order to sell books and CDs. Money changes everything, so consider the motives of your source.

Very, very few college professors from secular universities would tell you that the historical Jesus did not exist, but if you listen to people on this site it is a proven fact. You will hear: there's no contemporary documentation (as if every document in existence is at their disposal). Yet...these same people would say Socrates lived, that Julius Caesar conquered Gaul, etc and the documents remaining that point to this carbon date in a ranger wider than that of Jesus.

Are there similarities between Jesus and Horus? Yes. Are there similarities between Caesar and Alexander? Yes. Are there similarities between Jesus and Siddartha? Yes. Are there similarities between Siddartha and Krishna? Yes.

Are there similarities between Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.? Yes. Two thousand years from now when space archaeologists pour through the remnants of what was once the twentieth century of earth and they read a bit here and a bit there, could they say: well, Dr King sounds a lot like this Gandhi guy. This paper here says that Gandhi said "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." This other one says that Dr King said it. Maybe its the same guy....?

Because there are similarities does not mean that you can remove one from the mix. Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera were both blonde mousekateers from Disney.

Again, hard scholarship, a well-rounded knowledge of the era, the people, the culture...the language, documents not available to the general public...all of this is in the hands of HJ scholars and 99% of those with this knowledge affirm his existence.

As for the "hodge-podge", the Frankenstein of Christianity...that is true for all ancient religions. The ancient world always borrowed from each other. It was a way of forging alliances, finding something that worked. I've heard that the Christmas wreath came from the Druids--well, no. It came from Rome, from the Feast of Saturnalia. The Gauls, then the Britons borrowed it from them. I've heard that the date of Christmas came from the religions of Old Europe, no, again...Rome. Or even, Egypt, or even Judaism. All ancient cultures had cycles that they gave homage to. The Catholic church (all that's left of ancient Christianity) never said December 25th was the exact date of his birth. That is the day of celebration. Again...because tradition, ritual, etc meets the culture and people practicing it.

Why is Ramadan during the winter season? Why is Passover in the spring? Why is Oster in the Spring? They all borrowed from the earth's cycle and what was readily available in nature at the time for their symbols and decoration.

Sorry. I realize I am rambling now. Hope that helped.

All Religions are in some sense Frankensteined (i.e. cobbled together) from pieces of older religions especially when there has been a political-sociological invasion involved--foreign armies bring in new ideas to conquored territories and the result is the grafting of the New on to the Old.

With the 'Jews' it is no different. Most of their basic religious laws came from Canaanite myths (e.g. Lotan for Leviathan and Rachab the Serpent etc.) as well as the 42 Negative Confessions of Egypt (NB the names Mosheh, Miryam, Phineas, Aa'ron etal. are all Egyptian names !) The Old Testament texts were later written down after 550BC by Hebrew priets for a desert nomad clan god YHWH andd were exiled into Assyria in BC 722-701 and obviously absorbed much of the Assyrian Religion (e.g. ASHUR, the god with four faces, the face of a man, the face of an ox the face of a lion and the face of an eagle) which we see reflected in the Scroll of the Book of the Prophet Hezekiel (c. BC 550) chapters 1 and chapter 10 where YHWH is described as ASHUR.

In Exodus chapter (3) we have the weird name YHWH expressed in different Hebrew letters than what later would be ascribed to the god, viz. Yehei ASHUR Yehei, the god of the Burning Bush, a phrase which is utterly untranslatable. The Rebbes like to make ASHUR into 'ESHER' ('that which is') so they can make a sentence out of it. Some would say, Yehei means something like "I cause to be" &tc. but no one knows for sure. It could merely mean, 'Mind your own Business" (lit. 'I am who I am' when asked What is your name?) or if ASHUR is meant as the original clan god's name, it could mean 'I am ASHUR I am'.... either way it's a frankensteined mess of grafted-ideas, whose meaning has been long lost.

For whatever reason eventually the Burning Bush 'Yehei Ashur Yehei' turned into YHWH, (pronounced YAH-WEH, not JEHOE VAH (which involve a whole set of different consontants_) as paleoHebrew has no expressed written vowels except Vav for the long U sound and Yod for the long 'I' sound -- but only sometimes..)

Besides the Assyrian influence of 722 BC we also see Babylonian loan words when the southern Kingdom of Judah was exiled into Babylon in 587 BC--see Gen chapter 1 (written with Hezekiel's scribal accent, vocabulary, his weirdo syntax, grammar and odd spelling) where we have Babylonian LOAN WORDS such as Tehom, the Watery Chaos (from Bab. Tiamat, the Chaos of the Deep Goddess), and weird Babylonian phrases e.g. like TohuWaBohu ('formless and empty') and several others (including Apsu etc.)

After 531 BCE Persia attacked Babylon and over-ran Judah, and sent the priestly exiles (because they could read/write, they were put to work as scribes forced to copy out Assyro-Babylonian Myths for the Temples in Babylon) back to Jerusalem (where they changed the focus into YHWH only and combined the foreign myths & texts into a five book Yahwistic Torah, partched together in separate 5 writing styles / accents using 5 separate scribal schools under the watchful gaze of Ezra the Scribe in BC 440) :

Israel for 200 years became a province of The Persian empire where Persian-Zoroastrian ideas e.g. the Resurrection of the Righteous Dead, the concept of Satan as a Tempter and associated with the evil inclination, The Last Judgment, the End of Days, etc. (all later taken over by the Dead Sea Scroll sects and later by post Persian Nazorean Christians, if 'Iesous' only knew half of his ideas were originally Iranian !) until Alexander the Great's army conquored Palestine and the Levant bringing in Greek ideas...like reclining at Passover meals upon cushions Greek Style instead of sitting at a table like good Judaens--and having disciples named Bar-Ptolomeo and Phillipos and Andreas, all Greek names...one layer upon another was grafted until you have the mess that is Rabinnic Judaism and all those Christianities practiced today around the world, not even knowing where or half of their belief systems originated !

"Why is Ramadan during the winter season?"

just a simple correction my friend. Ramadan is never fixed. it could have been observed in winter about 8 years ago and now will be right at the smack of arab summer.it moves two weeks every year.so the next years' ramadan will be on the first of august till 28th.

Originally posted by randyvs
LIES ,ALL LIES!!!! Jesus Christ is alive. each person must find
this out for themselves. seek and you will find. or don't . the choice is
yours. get a bible w/ the words of Christ in red. read them all the way through.

According to the Bible, Jesus rose from the dead in a physical body. About a month after this, he rode a cloud up into outer space, where he's been ever since.

Sorry, friend. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night!