Satanists? Vampires or plain Evil? Does it exist?

Hi/

hi/
I just sat down to watch tv and a movie came on ''Sherlock Holmes'' The case of the white chapel Vampire.

When did the VAMPIRE Legends become known?
What exactly is a vampire?
Are they real enough that they live forever after selling their soul to the devil, or is it just a fantasy of creepy cults?

Judgement day for German Satanists...

A German couple who say they killed their friend on the orders of the devil are due to be sentenced on Thursday, concluding a case which has rocked the country.

Daniel Ruda, 26, and his wife Manuela, 23, admit killing Frank Haagen, but say they were not responsible for his death.

His body was found decomposing in the couple's flat in Bochum, in the west of the country, last July.

BBCNews EUROPE Judgment day

Last kiss as Satanist killers are locked up...

By Toby Helm in Bochum, western Germany
Published: 12:01AM GMT 01 Feb 2002

TWO satanists who stabbed a friend to death because they said the devil told them to grinned mockingly at their victim's parents yesterday before being sent to secure psychiatric units.

Daniel Ruda, 26, and his wife Manuela, 23, who said she learnt about satanism in England and Scotland, were committed for 15 and 13 years respectively. Both stared blankly ahead as sentence was passed at Bochum, western Germany.

Related Articles

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Satanic killers tell of blood drinking

Judge Arno Kersting-Tombroke said they had committed a "terrible crime" in murdering their friend, Frank Hackert, 33, by stabbing him 66 times...In the bathroom there was a black and white poster of hanged women. Skulls, scalpels stained with blood, vampire teeth and coloured contact lenses lay scattered around. On the floor in the main room was a great deal of blood and a coffin in which Manuela sometimes slept.

The body of Mr Hackert, a former colleague of Daniel Ruda, lay among the chaos. Besides having been stabbed 66 times, his arms and face had been savaged with a machete.

A scalpel was lodged in his stomach and next to it was a pentagram cut into the skin. A note, which police believe was a death list of 15 intended victims, was found near his body.
Last kiss as Satanists killers are locked up

Flirting With Hitler
Gothic is a way of dressing, a taste in music, a style. But in Germany - at the extreme fringes - it has also become the point at which neo-Nazism and Satanism meet. Report by John Hooper.
The prosecutor called it "a picture of cruelty and depravity such as I have never, ever seen". He was describing the scene left behind when Daniel and Manuela Ruda fled from their home in the west German town of Witten in July last year after murdering their friend, Frank Hackert.
When police broke in three days later, on July 9, they found a poster of hanged women in the bathroom and a collection of human skulls in the living room. There was a coffin in which 23-year-old Manuela sometimes slept. Blood-stained scalpels were scattered around the house. And then there was Hackert's corpse.

Flirting with Hitler


Sara Libby Robinson Brandeis University Blood Will Tell...Blood Will Tell: Anti-Semitism and Vampires in British Popular Culture, 1875-1914 ..... “The Ritual Murder Accusation in Britain.” The Blood Libel Legend: A ...
www.golemjournal.org/GOLEM3-1-2009_Robinson.pdf


Pretty interesting that these type of MURDERS are actually all associated with SATAN or the Occult.
One must truly ask, has the Devil succeeded in his evil corrupt ways to TEMPT and deceive normal(if that's what one can be called)people to commit such horrendous crimes?
Could this be one of our neighbours?
Friends?
One must ask and truly seek , why is this happening in a modern day world?
Who is normal and what is called normal in todays DARK ages that we live?

ICXC NIKA
helen

The notion of vampires predates Judaism, and therefore predates your idea of Satan. For instance, the Sumerians had their Akhkharu...

These murders were committed by deranged minds who had deranged ideas about Satan. These ideas of "Satan," come from the church. It is the Christian idea of Satan that these sick people venerated, and so I would call them Inverted Christians, since this concept of Satan has no basis in anything other than the church needing an enemy and a bogeyman.

Funny how I was just thinking about vampires the other day, huh. Well, I don't know that it will help you but here is what was my idea on the possibility of their existance. First, I do not know that they existed in the form of a bat like, blood sucking, undead entity. I know they had or tried to have linked the legand to Vlad the impaler. Personally, I was thinking there may be a linkage to demons or possession (of course one would have to believe in the possibility of those, which I do). One of the things I remember about vampires is that they have to be invited into the home or sanctuary. Now, if you consider the body as the home/sanctuary of the soul or the mind and whether it is the person outright invites such an entity, or simply doesn't know how to close the door I don't know. Then I was thinking instead of sucking blood for life, perhaps it either feeds off of the soul or off of the energy of the person being possessed.

Really, I don't even know why I thought of it this way, I had been reading a book about how back in the day everything was taught in parables and how there was always a deeper meaning in the subtext and wondered onto vampire movie that afternoon and let my mind wander. Just a theory.
Peace, Light, and Love

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
The notion of vampires predates Judaism, and therefore predates your idea of Satan. For instance, the Sumerians had their Akhkharu...

These murders were committed by deranged minds who had deranged ideas about Satan. These ideas of "Satan," come from the church. It is the Christian idea of Satan that these sick people venerated, and so I would call them Inverted Christians, since this concept of Satan has no basis in anything other than the church needing an enemy and a bogeyman.

Hi Daisy/

Why the attack with JUIDISM?

Aren't we being Anti-Gentile?
Please!
These MURDERS are BEING commited and not because of TRUE Christians, but the OPPOSITE!
So, what are your thoughts there?

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by DaisyAnne

The notion of vampires predates Judaism, and therefore predates your idea of Satan. For instance, the Sumerians had their Akhkharu...

This is new to me. Could you provide the documentation?

reply to post by helen670


I hope you didn't misunderstand me -- I'm not Jewish, or Christian!
I'm saying that the horrible idea of Satan that these people worshipped was an idea created by the church fathers. If you read "The History of the Devil" by Paul Carus, it will give you a well-rounded idea of the mythology.

These were sick people, and this idea of the Christian Devil just gave them something to focus on. I call them Inverted Christians because their ideology is Christian, they just worship the other side of it.

Originally posted by liveandlearn
reply to post by DaisyAnne

 

The notion of vampires predates Judaism, and therefore predates your idea of Satan. For instance, the Sumerians had their Akhkharu...

This is new to me. Could you provide the documentation?

It is pretty obscure actually, and I don't think you will find many online sources.
I only know it because it's my area of study. If I remember correctly, this would be a good place to start:

Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia: An Illustrated Dictionary by Jeremy Black

reply to post by DaisyAnne


Thank you. Books are a great source and it works for me. I will check it out.

reply to post by liveandlearn


No problem
It's a great book, and I think you'll enjoy it.

As a vampyr hunter I can tell you there are many theories behind where vampires came from. There have been legends of vampyr like (blood sucking) creatures long before medieval times. If you are familiar with christian religion, it said that lillith, Adam's first wife, became the first vampyr. There are also stories that Cain or Judas may have been as well.

Do they exist?
Well, they would have you believe they are myths, otherwise their kind cannot survive.

Can they be killed?
If it bleeds then we can kill it.

One questions still remains. Would a Jewish Vampire be afraid of the cross?

[edit on 30-7-2009 by mvirata]

So, Blood rituals of the Old Testament!

We know that Blood rituals were performed in the Old Testament...
"And God spoke all these words, saying,
I am the Lord thy God,
which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt,
out of the house of bondage.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Ex. 20:1-3...
But I guess some people fell away from the True God and worshiped false gods.
All of the Ten Commandments of the Old Testament given to Moses by God.
But again, people FELL away and turned to false GODS!
God’s basic spiritual law is summed up in the "Ten Commandments" (Exodus 20:1-17; Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4).
In the "Sermon on the Mount" and elsewhere,
Jesus magnified God’s law (Matthew chapters 5-7; Isaiah 42:21), showing His followers that they must obey both the letter and the "spirit."
"Wherefore the law is holy,
and the commandment holy,
and just, and good" (Romans 7:12).
It is practicing this way of life—through Christ living in us (Galatians 2:20)—that makes one a true "saint" (Revelation 14:12).

Psalm 43...20 If we have forgotten the name of our God,
and if we have spread out our hands to a strange god; shall not God search these things out?
21 for he knows the secrets of the heart.
22 For, for thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for slaughter.
23 Awake, wherefore sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, and do not cast [us] off for ever.
24 Wherefore turnest thou thy face away, [and] forgettest our poverty and our affliction?
25 For our soul has been brought down to the dust; our belly has cleaved to the earth.
26 Arise, O Lord, help us, and redeem us for thy name's sake.
And Romans 8...36
As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
SOURCE Old and New Testament
We are no children of the Flesh, but of the Spirit...read all of Romans chapter 8.

This is why sacrifice or the killing of any ANIMALS is forbidden by a Priest in the New Testament!
The Law DOES not allow any kind of SLAUGHTER or spilling of FLESH.

I guess some still have this practice...there is no need for ANY practice of KILLING...Jesus Christ IS the Sacrificial Lamb.
Those that still believe are not truly Christians.
Jesus Christ and His Apostles FORBID it!

Further more, Conspiracy related talks about Vampires and the like did NOT appear till many suspicions started to arise from these murders.
I feel sorry for the poor bats that are blamed!


ICXC NIKA
helen

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
The notion of vampires predates Judaism, and therefore predates your idea of Satan. For instance, the Sumerians had their Akhkharu...

These murders were committed by deranged minds who had deranged ideas about Satan. These ideas of "Satan," come from the church. It is the Christian idea of Satan that these sick people venerated, and so I would call them Inverted Christians, since this concept of Satan has no basis in anything other than the church needing an enemy and a bogeyman.

I'm sorry. It sounds like because christians have a name for something that means it ceases to exist.
since the sumerians had an idea of something then it cannot exist for christians?
Also, to say that prejudaic religions had their own versions for things, and then turn around and say that they only exist because of christianity doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by heyo


I'm sorry. It sounds like because christians have a name for something that means it ceases to exist.
since the sumerians had an idea of something then it cannot exist for christians?
Also, to say that prejudaic religions had their own versions for things, and then turn around and say that they only exist because of christianity doesn't make sense.

Not what I said at all.
I said that the notion of vampires predates Judaism.
Therefore, in the context of the OP, their origin has nothing to do with Satan. By Satan, I am referring to the Christian Devil. This ideology is Christian. The notion of vampires predates it.
Which brings me to my conclusion: the Christian idea of Satan and the idea of vampires are not related, which I made in answer to the OP.

The rest of my post was lamenting the invention of the Christian Devil in the first place, and saying that however you look at it, since they worship a Christian concept, these Satanists are Christians too, just inverted.

reply to post by mvirata


Hi mvirata/

Yes, It very much fits in with the Old Testament of Cain and killing his brother.

One should read the Book of ESTHER

I know thy works,
and tribulation, a
nd poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews,
and are not,
but are the synagogue of Satan.
Revelation 2:9
God, Who ... in times past spoke by the prophets,
last of all in these days hath spoken to us by His Son ... Last of all, He sent them His Son,
saying: "They will reverence My Son" ... But,
taking Him,
they cast Him forth and killed Him.
When therefore the Lord shall come,
what will He do to those men?
... He will bring those evil men to an evil end,
and he will let out His vineyard to other husbandmen who shall render Him fruit in due season ...
Therefore I say to you,
that the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you and given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof.
Hebrews 1.1-2, Matthew 21:37-43

ICXC NIKA
helen

reply to post by DaisyAnne



gotcha. They're all kind of related imho, but hey that's just me. I mean, i'm sure the sumerians had their own particular satan type entity.
i guess it's all in how one defines it...which is usually the problem.

reply to post by heyo


You're right, all the monotheistic faiths are related in that you will find a Satan type character there.

But the Sumerians (like all polytheistic faiths) were different, and there was no real corresponding entity for the Christian Devil.