Hawaii again declares Obama birth certificate real

Originally posted by grover
That is because their so-called movement isn't about Obama's birth certificate...never was...never will be.

Its all about sucking on sour grapes...
Its all about delegitimising his presidency...
Its all about demonizing Democrats...

AND yes its about race and (implied) religion.

Another biased attack slung from the pits of the far left. I'm suprised you didn't quote the Huffington Post as usual grover.

-E-

Since there is no real issue regarding Obama's birth certificate except in the minds of the blithers...what else would you call it?

Starred and flagged.

You are completely correct, the birthers know perfectly well the man was born in HI - they just need to keep themselves pumped up with hate

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

So nothing the state of Hawaii says will convince you huh?

As for the race/religion thing if its not the case then why have there been so many allegations that he was a closet Muslim...as in suggesting he is somehow Arab and would somehow sell the United States out?

The State of Hawaii has claimed that all original paper certificates were destroyed when they went electronic. Does that ring any alarm bells? NO? Evasive, deflecting. Not an answer.

Dude! I have an original copy of my Department of State issued Report of Live Birth Abroad and cannot live without it. My hands are tied as are yours and your families and friends and co-workers who also MUST have an original for everything and it does not bother you in the least that the most important position in the United States of America does NOT REQUIRE an original? Does it not bother you that the guy was born outside of the USA, not on American soil (military installation, etc.) and whose own GRANDMOTHER says she was there at his birth? Did she fly to Hawaii and then hurry home, forgetting where she was when he was born?

Come on....be loyal for the right cause man. It is honorable that you defend the PREZ, but please, wake up and smell the coffee. There are questions, plausible, consciensious questions that are only going to grow until there is a reasonable answer to all of these "mysteries" surrounding the one guy who rose to fame and fortune, political clout and authority but hides his historical documents.

Manchurian candidate? MK-Ultra? Puppet? Or honest, upright integrity? Come on...

The man can't come up with the document. Without answering We The People who have every right and duty to question our elected officials who are bestowed with the authority to use force, we are being played for fools.

Refusing to produce a document that we are all required by law to produce for everything in this life, creates controversy. It appears that is exactly the desired result. Divided we fall. EOS.

reply to post by xmotex


EXACTLY...

And we all know that if the shoe were on the other foot...that McCain had won and there was some question about his status as a natural born citizen the ones who call themselves blither's now....would be screaming bloody murder and demanding the left stop defaming the president.

It doesn't matter. Birthers won't believe anything anyone says or shows. It's pathological at this point.

It's a pathological hatred for Obama nothing more. It's useless to try and argue with this crowd. Nothing will get through to them. Just let them flail away madly and let them be.

Originally posted by whatukno
It doesn't matter. Birthers won't believe anything anyone says or shows. It's pathological at this point.

It's a pathological hatred for Obama nothing more. It's useless to try and argue with this crowd. Nothing will get through to them. Just let them flail away madly and let them be.

Wrong. Not hatred.

Confusion. Illogical. Deflection. Evasive. Non-responsive.

reply to post by whatukno

I agree its useless to try and talk to them about it but its loads of fun to get them going.

reply to post by grover


See Springer's signature about arguing with idiots for more details.




This issue has never been about Obama providing proof. It's a psychological hatred and fear campaign. Bent on trying to discredit the POTUS and delay what these people fear is the destruction of America.

reply to post by whatukno

If I were seriously arguing with them...but I'm not...

I consider them amusing and harmless.

As my current signature says I have reached the point where I find it impossible to take anything the right says seriously.

reply to post by grover


I beg to differ. This is not about race. I could care less which way this argument goes because he's already in office, so in my opinion it's a moot point.

HOWEVER, to insinuate this is racial does nothing but incite racism.

John McCain is white. White as wonder bread. Yet, his birth certificate was analyzed time and time again. In fact, Obama spent lots of money proving McCain is a legal US Citizen. And yup.... he's still white.

Do you think Obama is a racist for questioning McCain's eligibility?

Why, in every single question/discussion etc., does RACE have to be mentioned??

The man is black -- get over it.

Originally posted by argentus
To me, The interesting part of the OP's link is this:

I...have seen the original vital recordsmaintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen," Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said in a brief statement

(bold emphasis added by me)

So.. the original vital records exist? Not just an electronic version of same?

I don't think Dr. Fukino is lying. I think it's possible that there is problematic information he is not discussing.

Funny enough i read it exactly the other way round. Record is a) a generic term b) the atual technical term for an entry in a database.

But if you look at the tangents (latest: his biological father was an american too) it is pretty obvious that his BC is *not* the issue. If it was speculation about him having 2 american parents instead of just one wouldnt be celebrated the way they are.

Aside from the birth certificate problem, why has Obama sealed so many of his other records?


Smoke and fire and all that....

I see the White House Press Secretary, Robert Gibbs, has added a few comments of his own.

I hate to indulge, in such an august setting as the White House briefing room...the made-up, fictional nonsense whether the president was born in this country," Gibbs said. "If I had some DNA, it wouldn't assuage those who believe he wasn't born here." Attempting to put the issue to rest, once more, Gibbs assured reporters: "The president was born in Honolulu, in the 50th state of the greatest country on the face of the earth...There are 10,000 more important issues for people in this country to discuss, than whether or not the president is a citizen when it's been proven ad nauseam." Asked to speculate on why conspiracy theorists continue to fixate on the issue, Gibbs joked: "Because for $15 you can get an Internet address and say whatever you want

Politico 44

I can't understand why some get so wrapped up in non-issues & spend a not inconsiderable part of their own lives trying to prove black is white. Conspiracy theories are all well and good. But when they so dominate the agenda, to the exclusion of everything else ... and I include reasonable criticism of and opposition to government policy in that ... you really gotta wonder who's pulling the strings.

just give it up ..he is american! oh yeah there will never be a ufo discloser so forget that also...now ur life is boring.

Originally posted by grover


"I ... have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen," Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said in a brief statement. "

(visit the link for the full news article)



Why won't they let us see the original vital records?? These clowns keep changing their story. A few days ago they said the original BC was destroyed when Hawaii went digital in 2001!!

reply to post by Ulala

I can't understand why some get so wrapped up in non-issues & spend a not inconsiderable part of their own lives trying to prove black is white. Conspiracy theories are all well and good. But when they so dominate the agenda, to the exclusion of everything else ... you really gotta wonder who's pulling the strings.

I regard this topic as important. See my following.

Arguing over Obama’s “natural born” citizenship eligibility to hold the office of president is frankly, unfounded! There was however a genuine argument that John McCain was NOT a natural born citizen and therefore INELIGIBLE to the office of president. And that’s a fact. Not an unsustainable hypothesis.

NATURAL BORN. See here the relevant part of the United States Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, Clause 4: “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President . . “

Natural born means to be born in the United States. One exception to that rule was included, that this requirement would not apply to any person who was a citizen of the United States in 1787 regardless of where he was born. All others must be “natural born” citizens. This exception confirms the meaning of “natural born” as the term was used by the writers of the Constitution.

ARGUMENT. Is there a difference in a “citizen” and a “natural born” citizen? I think so and I think the writers of the Constitution also thought so. I believe I can prove that. Let’s go back to the Constitution to Article 1, and examine the requirements for Representatives and Senators. Go to Section 2, Clause 2: “No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty five years, and been seven years a citizen of the United States . . “

And go next to Section 3, Clause 2: “No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the age of thirty years, and been nine years a citizen of the United States . . “

It is obvious the writers have recognized two classes of citizens. Members of Congress need only be naturalized citizens. Any immigrant could, after the specified period of time, be either a Representative or a Senator. But only natural born citizens can be president, the sole exception aside.

Therefore, having established the two classes of citizenship and that “natural born” means born in the United States, we come to the next issue. John McCain. In his case, the issue is reduced to this single point.

QUESTION. Is Panama the United States?

You do not need to be smarter than a 5th grader to know the answer to that question! Panama is NOT the United States. It is Panama.

CONCLUSION. John McCain was not and is not eligible to the office of president and nothing he can do will change that.

COMPLICATIONS. There are 2 complicating factors in the John McCain scenario. First is a statute passed long ago and second is a Resolution voted 99 to 0 by the Senate in 2008. Let me deal with the Resolution first. Our system of governance relies on the THREE separate, equal and distinct powers concept. Legislative, Executive and Judicial. The legislature writes the laws; the executive carries out the laws; and the judiciary interprets the laws. While the unanimous Senatorial Resolution was no doubt gratifying to Senator McCain, it had NO force of law. It was merely an OPINION. It is up to the judiciary and not the legislature to decide what the constitution says or means in any particular application.

The other was a statute enacted by Congress and signed into law.
I do not know when but put that issue on hold for now. The statute says - let me paraphrase - “Any person born outside the United States to parents who are citizens of the United States and who are outside the country on official business, is to be considered a citizen of the United States from the time of his or her birth.”

This statute is completely within the power of Congress to do. See Article 1, Section 8, Clause 4: “[Congress shall have power] To establish a uniform rule of naturalization . . “

As I somewhat frivolously put it, Congress can make you a citizen but only GOD can make you natural born!

Which is to say this: John McCain was indeed a citizen from the time of his birth* but he will never be a natural born citizen of the United States and therefore, he was not, is not, eligible to the office of president.

Whew! That was a close call!


*I do not know when that statute was enacted. PRIOR. It if was in place before McCain’s birth in 1936, then it applied to him, but If the law was not in place until AFTER 1936, then it does not apply to him unless it had a SAVING clause to deal with persons born prior to the enactment of the statute.

The issue was made moot on November 4, 2008, when John McCain lost the election by MORE than 10,000,000 votes. But if the election had gone the other way, it could have caused some very serious problems for our country. It is an issue we ought to get straight so we don’t come this close to making a boo-boo again. Soon.

[edit on 7/28/2009 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite


Was it not also true that McCain was born on a U.S. military base and as such places are deemed United States Soil he would enjoy the same Jus Soli as Obama?

reply to post by whatukno

Was it not also true that McCain was born on a U.S. military base and as such places are deemed United States Soil he would enjoy the same Jus Soli as Obama?

Good question. I don’t know the answer. Only the Supreme Court of the US can answer that definitively. Because of the Rule the court will not speculate - give advisory opinions - but will only deal with issues properly before it, it is very unlikely we will ever get an answer. Had the 2008 vote gone the other way, we’d be in the same predicament as Iran is in now.

Birthright citizenship in the United States of America follows from a hybrid rule of jus soli and jus sanguinis. Under the American system, any person born within the United States (including the overseas territories of Puerto Rico, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands) and subject to its jurisdiction is automatically granted U.S. citizenship, as are many (though not all) children born to American citizens overseas.
en.wikipedia.org...

Let me pose you this hypothetical. Suppose it is a secret base operated by the CIA somewhere in the Afghan Pakistan area. A pregnant local woman is received as an emergency patient and she gives birth while on the site. We accept that had she managed to get inside the US of A, her child would be a citizen. Natural born. But would we take the same view of the woman at the secret base in the far off Afghan Pakistan region?

Story From the Washington Post
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate

Curiously enough, there is no record of McCain's birth in the Panama Canal Zone Health Department's bound birth registers, which are publicly available at the National Archives in College Park. A search of the "Child Born Abroad" records of the U.S. consular service for August 1936 included many U.S. citizens born in the Canal Zone but did not turn up any mention of John McCain.

Possible discrepancies in the bureaucratic paperwork are of little concern to Laurence Tribe, a Harvard law professor who looked into the case at the McCain campaign's request. Tribe examined the issue along with Theodore B. Olson, his onetime nemesis in the 2000 Supreme Court case Bush v. Gore.

Tribe said it would be "astonishing if the recordkeeping practices of Canal Zone [officials] could have any bearing on eligibility for the U.S. presidency."

The key constitutional issue is whether the Canal Zone was part of the United States at the time of McCain's birth. In a memorandum, Tribe and Olson cite a 1986 Supreme Court ruling stating that the United States "exercised sovereignty" over the 10-mile-wide area between 1904 and 1979, when it was handed back to the Panamanians. Hollander and others challenging McCain's eligibility argue that the zone was never part of the United States.

Duggin, the constitutional law scholar, said the sovereignty question is "more complex" than Olson and Tribe concede. People born in some U.S. territories, such as American Samoa, are not recognized as citizens of the United States.

According to a State Department manual, U.S. military installations abroad cannot be considered "part of the United States" and "A child born on the premises of such a facility is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and does not acquire U.S. citizenship by reason of birth." Tribe said the manual is an "opinion" with no legal status.

But she said the matter should be sorted out before the election, rather than afterward: "Imagine what would happen if the courts were to overturn an election simply based on eligibility. It would be a disaster. After what happened in 2000, people would completely lose faith in the electoral process."
www.washingtonpost.com...


[edit on 7/28/2009 by donwhite]

People woke up one day and saw that a black man was running the country. People are unbelievably racist in the most ingrained, subliminal ways. Of course they can't say they don't want him there because he's black, so let's go with "we don't want him here because he's foreign." Even though there's no truth to it, the notion is more PC and in line with the constitution.

"I want my country back."

Hah.

Can't wait for my Canadian citizenship so I can leave all the nutters behind.

By the way, are there any intelligent, educated, reputable sources pioneering the birther movement? PLEASE U2U me as I hate checking back on these sort of threads.