How did everything come out of nothing?

And before you glom upon my statement of the universe being "Aware" of itself, I mean so not in a human-like or alien-like awareness, as much as a pervading sense of existence permeating through dimensional resonance and giving rise to ordered systems.

To become is to be, to seek is to become. It that is seeks, and through its presence becomes moreso present of its self.

A thing becoming becomes more itself as order is sought. Inception imparts none of this, only the potential of becoming.

Originally posted by jonah0julian
There is one question that has been really fascinating me lately.

How did the Creator/Consciousness know how to create form?

I mean all there was was nothingness. And surely the idea of form must of appeared or something.

Now I look at a flower and I am fascinated at how such a form can be created when it seems almost impossible that it can come from a seemingly "mindless" consciousness.

How can things come from nothing? Is everything still nothing? Isn't energy made of vibration and isn't vibraton formless? Isn't all made from nothing?

Nothing exists? Everything exists through nonexistence nothingness?

We don't know that all there was was nothingness, we weren't there back then and if we were, we don't remember. If you think about it, does a flower really seem to come from a "midless consciousness"? It takes water, sunlight, the seed, soil, until it gradually grows. What if something doesn't come from nothing, but nothing comes from something? What's beyond death is arguable, but as an example, think of our birth, which would be considered a SOMETHING... but does that something come from nothing? No, as small as it is, a new-born baby came from a tiny egg and sperm- what it was to start off with. But when that baby grows old and dies, it's physical life is now NOTHING. But is there really such thing as nothing? Because the dead person could still be bones in a coffin, or ashes, in various places. Does anything that's ever been, truely disappear? Even salt which dissolves in water, no visible.. only to be revealed again when a method of evaporation/condensation takes place.

How the universe came into existence is one of the biggest myteries in physics and cosmology. The most common view held by scientists based on scientific philosophy is that it happened with a big bang. However it dosent actually answer the question how does 0=1.
However there is a theory that the universe is cyclic here is a link to explain it and its a theory in which i belive in

news.nationalgeographic.com...

Originally posted by bsbray11
reply to post by TheColdDragon

 

My question to you is why does it have to be over time? What does time have to do with anything?...But "before" doesn't even fit it, because again, time doesn't even exist in these "places," nor does space necessarily have to.

Yeah I was about to say as I read your post that if time were removed from the equation then it would take a big chunk of the problem away.

Time is only a human made construct. Time is like a table. We all know what both are. We've been told what they are. They are names labeling things for the benefit of all. If you were calling tables roofs all these years then you would find it odd when I asked if I could put my drink on your table and likewise when you ask if I can hear the rain falling on the table. When talking about QM we don't need to talk about tables, just like when talking about what was there before we were here (or perhaps, before our consciousness) time should be removed as it is something we created or labeled and so not needed.

OK...so I read that and while it makes sense I suspect readers will read and be a little wtf. This is one of those topics best discussed at a table, under a roof and with a beer

There are theories and good circumstantial evidence from scientists like MIT's Dr. William Tiller that shows our consciousness here in time and space is still connected to higher dimensions that can access information beyond time and space limitations through quantum mechanisms that our brains are sensitive to. I happen to follow that line of thought from several different angles, so to speak.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by bsbray11]

I'll be honest, I haven't gone and done a search for Dr. William Tiller but does he have papers freely available online or do I need access to University article databases?

Thanks.

Originally posted by johnb
If you want a look at what Einstein and Planck amongst others thought try this link

www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il...

Thanks for that, will have to give that a read. BTW I love your sig. I always say the same, the more you know you know you don't know

Originally posted by jonah0julian
There is one question that has been really fascinating me lately.

How did the Creator/Consciousness know how to create form?

I mean all there was was nothingness. And surely the idea of form must of appeared or something.

Now I look at a flower and I am fascinated at how such a form can be created when it seems almost impossible that it can come from a seemingly "mindless" consciousness.

How can things come from nothing? Is everything still nothing? Isn't energy made of vibration and isn't vibraton formless? Isn't all made from nothing?

Nothing exists? Everything exists through nonexistence nothingness?

Hello! This is a wonderful, valid and wise question because it's answer delineates who you truly are.

YOU as Creator/Consciousness/Awareness are prior to the concepts of Time and Space therefore there is no inside or outside per se, simply a formless Mind; a lonely Mind aware of It's singularity. You, or Mind, wanted to share yourself with the idea of "Another" to "feel" it's Self. Loneliness became the catalyst for this implosive dream/nightmare/make-believe world YOU now witness. Form is inherently empty. Like a dream. Take away all of the pieces and parts and you are left with? Nothing. Yet you are still aware! All that you are witnessing as a Human Vehicle is in fact inside You or Mind. That Mind is your true Self in a game you created. The Game?

It has only two rules;

1) Forget who you really are

2) Believe in another

Thus began the Great Sleep and time was born as well as life and death and all of the suffering that goes with it.

The Game hasn't thoroughly wiped out your True Self however, as you experience it every night when you sleep.

1) The Gross Physical: This is the small, limited world you experience when you think that you are awake.

2) The Subtle: This is the world of dreams when you think you are asleep when in actuality you are half awake.

3) The Causal: Deep dreamless sleep. Or in reality what is Pure Awareness. Formless Consciousness where all is vast and featureless and full of YOU! Do you ever re-member this when you "wake up" in the morning? You can with practice.

4) The Great Catastrophe: Finally all collapses into it's Self and the world of opposites and pairs dissolves back into the foundational Singularity from whence all of this came. At this point there is no you but only YOU! Everything you are looking at is very simply YOU looking at YOU!

See the sunrise and look upon Your Original Face; the one you had before you were born!


=) Namaste

Erik

Is this a serious thread?

First off..I'm not going to bombard you with wise or philosophical nonsense...just going to provide this answer in the most logical way possible.

Everything didn't come from just "nothing." We as a species evolved, along with many other species that roam this planet. How come? Because we're alive. We're living beings. The earth is also alive. Does this mean the planet can evolve? Because of drastic changes through the planet's existence, yes it can and it has been evolving for a very long time.



It takes time for a planet to develop. Look how long it takes a species such as ours to develop.




[edit on 28-7-2009 by GorehoundLarry]

[edit on 28-7-2009 by GorehoundLarry]

For me there only "is".

God is everything and nothing.

Creation is paradox.

Enlightenment and Madness await us in the answers to our questions.

Originally posted by jonah0julian
There is one question that has been really fascinating me lately.

How did the Creator/Consciousness know how to create form?

I mean all there was was nothingness. And surely the idea of form must of appeared or something.

Now I look at a flower and I am fascinated at how such a form can be created when it seems almost impossible that it can come from a seemingly "mindless" consciousness.

How can things come from nothing? Is everything still nothing? Isn't energy made of vibration and isn't vibraton formless? Isn't all made from nothing?

Nothing exists? Everything exists through nonexistence nothingness?

first, it seems that you erroneously assume that there was a creator that made all this.

remember, Man made God in his own image, so why not be that God yourself?

"Now I look at a flower and I am fascinated at how such a form can be created when it seems almost impossible that it can come from a seemingly "mindless" consciousness."

this deffinately all didn't "Just Happen" or then again did anything ever happen? is this all a collective conciousness or if it is of a higher conciousness then how do we know any of this is real.... form... what form...we are all figments ;P

your awaking process apears to have begun?

The nothingness you speak of is relative to the meaning of what we see in front of us today. Everything has 3 causes in the chain of effect.

1. God (or however you want to spin it) 2. An impressionable "wave" that has potential to become many things but is also given contextual limitations 3. Finite measureable units of change (particles) that are almost predeterministic in their nature as they are effected by everything that came before them.

We can only think in terms of the second in the chain and beyond as we can't possibly think with any certainty of an environment where this impressionable nature doesn't exist. Where laws and the forms of everything aren't molded by their environment but actually created from a similar source without a pre-existing environment.

This is because we have pattern and logic based thinking and such an idea just simply can't work in our minds. So when someone says "Don't question it, you can't and won't understand it" this is what they mean. Everything you see has to have always had these properties because its impossible for us to make any correlation to something otherwise. This is a wrong assumption but one we can't possibly overcome unless we are to acquire the ability to over-write the laws of the universe. This would give us a good idea on how everything really works but I think someone might get very upset about that and thus won't allow such a thing.

But more to the point of this thread, you can't get something from nothing. It's hard to wrap one's mind around, but I honestly wholeheartedly believe in Bill Hicks comment, "...we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively."

When you look deeper into the meaning of that phrase, IMO, it suggests that every thing that exists is conscious and it's purpose is to experience existence and gain knowledge. If we are all just parts of a greater consciousness, then I would assume all of our knowledge gained from this experience is linked to this "greater" source (collective consciousness) and each individual part of this consciousness has the ability to "move up" in the ranks. I wouldn't doubt that there comes a point where everything that has, does, and will exist all converges into one at some point and it's at that point that this consciousness can create universes, as if it's just a natural progression. Something that has to happen. The big bang.

But I also believe that this consciousness is part of a greater consciousness and so on. But it also goes the other way. Every consciousness has a "smaller" consciousness contributing to it's existence. Like my cells consciousness for instance. But what drives the cells. What drives whatever drives the cells and on and on.

It's a never ending cycle. We always think in terms of infinitely large. But we often fail to realize there is such a thing as infinitely small also. There can be no beginning and no end when thinking in terms of infinity. That is why scientists will NEVER be able to fully explain the origin of the existence with a big bang, because they think of it in terms of existence have a finite beginning. They can't seem to explain where this super condensed ball of gas came from. It's impossible for them to without getting philosophical.

Think about this for awhile, what if it was us who started the big bang? Don't think in terms of linear time and it may make more sense. The big bang, did, is and will continue to happen. We did, are, and will continue to experience life after the big bang. We did, are, and will continue to create the conditions for the big bang to happen.

When I say we, I mean every single piece of matter in existence that has experienced existing. And even "our" experience (including the big bang) is contributing to another larger consciousness.

I could keep going on like this forever...

Originally posted by jonah0julian
How can things come from nothing?

It can't. NOTHING is impossible .. it's an impossible state .. therefore, everything always was and always will be. You can't have had a prior state of NOTHING, because even nothing is something .. I.E.: It would have been a definable state, and that definition/state is still something. You can't have a state of zero without defining what ZERO is .. or rather, what ZERO/NOTHING is not. You can't define zero without implying that it is not 1 or 2 or 3 or -1 or -2 or -3 and so on. The matrix/multiverse may be static and predefined, and it could be only our observation that moves through it which results in this illusion of time. You know, all of this could merely be an illusion, why would it need be more? We all know how easily we can be fooled by a dream, an illusion.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Who says something came out of nothing? Our universe came out of something, but since we need to operate within our universe there is no way of knowing what it would be like prior to the big bang.

so you think

Originally posted by bsbray11
My answer would be that it never "came out" of nothing, that it is still right in the belly of it.


Buddhism says everything is illusion. Nothing is "real" and nothing is "not real," there is only something that no one can ever say words about, because the minute you think or say something about it, that is another part of the illusion.

All the dimensions are nested in each other. What is the highest one? Not contained in any of the others, the Tao te Ching says it's formless, and totally unreachable. Its transcendence and defiance of definition seem to be its defining qualities. "Nothing" or "no thing" seems to be what "it" is: a void. That contains all possible potentials across all dimensions, but still resides among them all equally without choosing any of them yet. A total void, which means it avoids "everything" on all levels, neither "here" nor "there."



It still exists, it has never gone away.



How did "something" come out of it?

I'm not sure it ever changed at all, and I don't think anything ever happened. Nothing ever came out of it.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by bsbray11]

really good

Originally posted by johnb
If you want a look at what Einstein and Planck amongst others thought try this link

www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il...

It has links to these as well

Brownian motion, Coriolis force 2. energy-space, quant constant, time-space, quant constant, Van der Walls force, Quant constant, Photn motion,
Gravity, Newton's ,Einstein's Time, How to prevent Hurricane, Wave theory and gender, Gender definition, Doppler phenomenon, Brain, Gravity waves, Solar systems creation, Space-time, Quant constants, fundemantal force 2 , Why Women live longer ? , The creation of life ,
Aurora, Evolution of sex, Infinite universe , Eternal universe ,The universe paradox , Hypnosis, Quantum universe , Brain time machine , United nature theory, Quantum gravity, Fundamental forces

All in all enough to keep you reading for a long time while seriously stressing out the old brain

thanks

It all comes down to the chicken or the egg scenario, but then that scenario only makes sense in our universe since time is a tool for us humans to make sense out of the linear advancement of everything in our universe. Even Hawking put forth considerable effort and thought as to whether time would reverse once the universe stopped expanding and started to collapse. So if time did not exist outside our universe then the chicken or the egg isn’t even a question.

Nothing does not exist ` it never has and it never will, only the word nothing exist and our idea of the word nothing. Everything came from something, something didn't come from nothing. How can it?

reply to post by Xtrozero


I agree time is a tool, only the human mind uses time. Yesterday is today and today is tomorrow, it's one frame with endless layers.