Dad threw girl off cliff to avoid child support

Originally posted by bvproductions
A 4-year-old should NOT be near a 120 ft. cliff.
That, in itself, is a crime....

i hate the IDEA of dying from a great fall. i must have died from one in a past life. my god how can people be so cruel? this stuff doesn't even surprise me anymore.

That is probably the most selfish thing a person could do.

I mean this poor young soul never got to experience life as we know it.

How much do you remember when you were 4? Not a whole lot.....

So she pretty much never got to experience life.....That is sooo against free will...

I hope this man has to learn his lesson in his next life.......

For those who say he is guilty for having his child near a 120 foot cliff aren't thinking very clearly.

The Grand Canyon is a popular family tourist attraction. There has also been many children who have fell from its cliffs. Saying that this man (if it was accidental) is guiltly because he took her there and she fell is saying that all the families who lost a child at the Grand Canyon is negligent.

Was Eric Clapton negligent when his 3 year old son fell from his high rise aparment?

Accidents like this do happen through no fault of anyone.

Originally posted by Solomons
Wow just wow! How on earth could someone do this? course the defendant says it was an accident so im not going to point the finger yet.But if this is true it makes me sick to my stomach,what sort of person could do this?.This is also the result of a society that cherishes money over anything else,we really need to get our priorities in order and stop this obsession with money.Of course this man being a despicable creature is the main factor(if the story is true).

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


[edit on 27-7-2009 by Solomons]

He can do it the same way men all over the country are killing their entire families and themselves. Financial pressure makes men kill, or at the very least want to. It's the gods honest truth.

This is also the result of a society that cherishes money over anything else,we really need to get our priorities in order and stop this obsession with money.

I completely agree on this one... if the mothers weren't pressured by lawyers to claim more and more requirements for child support, this would never happened to begin with.

As a father (who always paid his child support mind you), I know what it's like when the state makes you think of your child as a bill that has to be paid. It's the most debasing sensation in the world. And what happens when a man feels his manhood is being taken away from him?

That's right.. he goes ape#!

Now for me, when the whole divorce proceedings went down, I had to answer a question for myself. Do I hate HER more than I love MYSELF and my child? I had to realize what was the highest priority; I had to put love over hate. I too felt the same sense of helplessness that many fathers feel. I had fantasies of doing harm to my ex in many ways. But it always happened when she would never budge on anything...

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the father who killed his child, or any father who commits horrible acts against others. There is such a thing called restraint.

But ALL WOMEN should realize what thoughts go through a mans mind when he is pressured like this. Especially if it was the woman who was root of the problem in the relationship to begin with.

I'm not saying don't get the child support you need. I'm saying make the man a part of that process. Let him weigh in on it... it's his child too. And if you don't, and force him to pay something he had no say in... well then he will most likely disown the child mentally. That's just the way it goes...

reply to post by HunkaHunka

I'm not saying don't get the child support you need. I'm saying make the man a part of that process. Let him weigh in on it... it's his child too. And if you don't, and force him to pay something he had no say in... well then he will most likely disown the child mentally. That's just the way it goes...

It is generally the court who decides how much child support to award, not the ex, not the ex's lawyer. The court.

Let's say for the sake of argument that the father is given a "say" into how much support he should pay for his child. Chances are he already has a strained relationship with the ex, so more than likely he's going to do everything in his power not to pay her a dime more than is necessary.

It's the child that suffers from this kind of animosity between the parents. Hence the need for a neutral party, the court, to decide the amount that should be paid. Generally, it is based on a formula that takes both parents income into account and determines what is fair compensation.

The father played an integral part in bringing the child into the world and he has the moral responsibility to help support that child. That said, it takes a heck of a lot more than $1,000 to shelter, clothe and feed a child.

If, and that's a big "if", the father did kill his child to avoid paying child support or to strike back at the mother, then he is nothing short of a monster and needs to be removed from society.

I believe that yes, a person should pay child support, but on the other side, the person with the child must send receipts to the non-custodial parent to prove that the money actually was used for the child.

Innocent til proven guilty but this isn't an isolated incident. As has been stated earlier, money and more than anything else, materialism is to blame. At no point in time should it have ever been acceptable to think that anything non-living takes precedence over something living. We need to break the material mindset.

The first thing we could do is go after the pop-culture that enforces these "values" on the people. Entertainers get paid more than anyone who saves a life. I think that is so backwards, I can't use fitting words to express my rage at such a set-up.

People who can spread disdainful ways to live a life get "rewarded" more than those that prolong life? Its a joke. Doctors, firefighters, police and many others must all take pay cuts. Anyone in hollywood getting a pay cut? Is anyone in hollywood cutting back? Nope. They get more and more money so they can keep showing off their lifestyle that is taking the species down. That in itself gives our currency "Moral Inflation". The more dishonestly you acquire it, the more value it seems to have and the more of it you seem to get. You can either let it keep happening or do something about it. That is the choice you have.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Eitimzevinten]

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

 

I'm serious. I think the guy's a dirt bag, but what was the momma thinking? I've seen it a lot, and it's common in the USA now.

For example a guy working for me had a son. The son was 19; the last I heard he was a 3 strike felon, and now sitting in prison...FOR LIFE.

However, this is not before he had knocked up 5 chicks. Each one knowing about the previous.

I did the dad a favor, and stopped by his son's abode after work one day. This was right before the last strike against the son; any ways' I walked into the house as well. There was one momma with her kid playing on the floor in a sea of cigerette butts, and empty beer bottles. The 'boy', that momma, and the newer pregnant one were all there doing 'illicit drugs'. I left immediately, but was in awe at the entire scene. It burnt into my mind.

The most incredible aspect about it was where the mindset of those women were? Why would they choose that?

Just like in this story why'd the momma have a baby with a dirtbag? I'd say she's partly responsible too.

And why didn't you call the division of children and families on that dirtbag if you saw that? Ewwwww the kid was playing in a pile of cigarette butts? Truly not fit parents. But, if you chose not to call the correct authorities on it, you are part of the problem.
Now on topic, obviously someone should have seen the warning signs that this man was unfit, if not, maybe it was an accident. Maybe it was a little negligent but we'd have to see what witnesses say, what turns up in the court findings, to make that determination.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by ldyserenity]

I bet there was a degree of revenge aimed at the mother here as well as trying to get out of paying the money.

Child Support

EUGENICS at it's finest

This is the arena of depopulation that Men and women are too busy fighting about to really see the big picture.

As most of you are.

Some child support is fine, a few hundred maybe for clothes and gifts...

Beyond that the portion of social services that actually goes to welfare is only around 3%... it makes up less than 1% of the total US budget, we have food that rots rather than give it to mothers, we have housing that is easy to subsidize...

Yet... a Man , should have to give up the equal of his whole months pay, with ZERO protection of that money in that it is actually spent on the child?

There is no purpose in this other than to assure if you don't have allot of money you can't as a man continue to reproduce...

This mans actions are REPREHENSIBLE

Don't get me wrong

But that man, if unable to afford could NOT... ever have love again, would rarely have a relationship with the child was for all intents and purposes Neutered and turned into a slave...

The Very concept of child support is ILLEGAL it is forced labor, SLAVERY

Sure you need allot of money to raise a child IF that child is to be trained in school to be a high consuming slave too...

Otherwise you need some food and a roof and yeah... kids can share a room... it's no big deal...

this is straight EUGENICS

they hold up Women and children that THEY refuse to allocate money for, ENCOURAGE divorce by high price tags ruin families and create a war on breeding males...

and NO amount of money can then make it better for a CHILD


The very Media preaches fools like DR Phil that run amok speaking of "personal satisfaction" that encourage divorce for any reason... when in reality happiness ALL THE TIME is the greatest farce imaginable... the VERY CONCEPT of 100% HAPPY leads to depression because it is unachievable...

EUGENICS

United We Stand Divided we fall...

The blow was struck in the 60's they divided us, it's high time we understood this and fought back and stopped living in TV land while they make us extinct

Originally posted by maria_stardust
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

I'm not saying don't get the child support you need. I'm saying make the man a part of that process. Let him weigh in on it... it's his child too. And if you don't, and force him to pay something he had no say in... well then he will most likely disown the child mentally. That's just the way it goes...

It is generally the court who decides how much child support to award, not the ex, not the ex's lawyer. The court.

Not in Atlanta. If you are both pro se and have a settlement already drawn up, then the court will most likely abide by it. However, if you don't you will be given mediation at which point if there can be no agreement between the parents, they can leverage the state sanctioned levels based on the other parents (usually the father's) salary.

Now mind you this salary to child support ratio doesn't scale very well as it was based off of a scenario where the mother is on welfare and the father makes minimum wage, so if you make over 75k, you can actually appeal to have it capped at that, per child, which is upwards of $1500 a month.

But, as I mentioned, in Atlanta, if the parents agree, then that's fine. In my situation, I paid a certain amount in cash, and we agreed that I would pay on the car note until it was paid off, at which point I would just pay the cash. I also happened to take all the credit card debt as well. And this would be until he moved in with me, at which point I no longer pay child support, nor receive any.

Let's say for the sake of argument that the father is given a "say" into how much support he should pay for his child. Chances are he already has a strained relationship with the ex, so more than likely he's going to do everything in his power not to pay her a dime more than is necessary.

That's not fair at all. My ex and I had a very strained relationship.

However, before you are allowed to get a divorce in Atlanta, both of the parents are required to go to a session, not together, that really emphasizes and teaches you how to focus your conversations only on the welfare of the child.

I know it sounds fanciful, but it's a great class, that I think is one of the best things our local gov has done. And we came ready for mediation. Don't get me wrong... I couldn't stand to look at her... but as I mentioned, I had to come to a conclusion... did I hate her more than I loved myself? More than I loved my child?

Don't discount the man in this situation. This is exactly what I am warning people against.

It's the child that suffers from this kind of animosity between the parents. Hence the need for a neutral party, the court, to decide the amount that should be paid.

Yes, you are right about the child who suffers. And you are also right about those situations where the parents can not come to an agreement, the court does step in and set it up.

But no, in Atlanta, that's not the only way it goes. It's only if the parents can not come to an agreement.

Generally, it is based on a formula that takes both parents income into account and determines what is fair compensation.

As I mentioned earlier, the guidelines being used in GA was rushed in under pressure from the federal government and it was based on a situation which was a percentage extrapolated from a mother who was on welfare and a man who made minimum wage.

I'm sure it was fair and equitable at that level but not at others... which is why in GA, if you use the guidelines, you *can* pro rate past 75k of a salary.

The father played an integral part in bringing the child into the world and he has the moral responsibility to help support that child.

Granted. Every father wants to help support their child. What they don't want is to be excluded from the process.

That said, it takes a heck of a lot more than $1,000 to shelter, clothe and feed a child.

Well, that's a rather subjective number that has a lot to do with where someone lives and what they are earning. Some places $1000 is about a months rent, where other places it's 5 x what a normal mortgage payment is.



But I agree that it takes a lot more than money to raise a child.

If, and that's a big "if", the father did kill his child to avoid paying child support or to strike back at the mother, then he is nothing short of a monster and needs to be removed from society.

Oh yes I agree completely. What I'm arguing for is people to see what is going on here at a deeper level. There have been at least 15 different cases this year alone of fathers killing their entire family and themselves. There's a reason for that, and it has to do with how men often respond to the feeling of helplessness.

This is also one of the reasons there are so many "dead beat dads" in this country. Once again, I'm not condoning any behavior. I'm trying to bring awareness to this.

This is trully fuc@ed up.

Just freakin sad.

Send him to prison!!He'll get his!!Rotten,low down, no good son of a bitch!! Threads like this piss me off!!! What a piece of #!!

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Send him to prison!!He'll get his!!Rotten,low down, no good son of a bitch!! Threads like this piss me off!!! What a piece of #!!

At the very least he could have taken out a life insurance policy on himself, with his daughter as a benificiary, and then killed himself by crashing a plane into a government facility after the 2 year waiting period for suicides.

Why lose an innocent?

[edit on 5-3-2010 by In nothing we trust]