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Bureaucracy and how it conspired against my Second Amendment Rights

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posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:27 PM
I wanted to write about an experience that I am currently going through regarding my Second Amendment right to bear arms.

The experience is something called "Bureaucracy".

The definition of Bureaucracy according to Merriam-Webster is

1 a: a body of non elective government officials b: an administrative policy-making group
2: government characterized by specialization of functions, adherence to fixed rules, and a hierarchy of authority
3: a system of administration marked by officialism, red tape, and proliferation

I wanted to talk about my right to own and carry a concealed handgun in my beloved state of North Carolina. I am currently a concealed handgun permit carrier and my permit does not expire until halfway through the year 2010. I Believe in following the law and have usually done so my entire life. I have never served time in prison and have never been convicted of any felonies. I have never even had any misdemeanors.

I have never been institutionalized for mental illness or been prescribed any medication for anything mentally related or ever in my life suffered any form of depression.

I served 6 years in the U.S. Military that included two tours in Iraq working as security. I served in my bases Honor guard. I volunteered to help feed homeless people as well as volunteered at many other facilities in the town that I was stationed at for my 6 year enlistment.

I left the Military about a year ago but still have a currently active Top Secret clearance for work on Nuclear Capable Weapons Systems.

My current concealed carry permit is good for another year. I recently went to the local Bass Pro shop and learned that I am not legally allowed to purchase a firearm in my state because my concealed carry permits address does not match the address of my new residence that I recently moved to.

I checked my concealed carry permit and sure enough it says absolutely NOTHING about change of address on the permit. You would think pertinent information like that would be printed on the permit, but no matter. I checked my local sheriffs office and learned that I have 30 days from the day I move to update my new address. This is not a problem because I just recently moved to my new address and as soon as I moved here I changed the address on my drivers license. It reflects a recent change of address within 30 days.

Now HERE is where my problem begins. In order for me to update the OLD Sheriffs office with my new residence information I am required to fill out a form to give to the OLD Sheriff so that I can receive a new card to carry with my old concealed carry permit that shows the change of address.

The Sheriff's department from my old county flat out refuses to mail me the form and says that I have to come pick up the form from them and also fill it out in front of them. It is a 10 hour drive!

Not only would I have to drive 10 hours to fill out this form I would have to drive ANOTHER 10 hours back to pick up the form when they find the time to print out a form of address change card form me because they refuse to mail it out to me.

20 hour drive to do a courtesy and inform the old sheriff that I moved out of his county?

So I contacted my local Sheriff and they tell me that there are different laws according to different Sheriff's Offices.

I will not be able to drive 10 hours to fill out a form in person to show that I moved in time to meet the 30 day deadline (which is like 6 days away).

I am about to become a Felony Criminal because of Bureaucracy!?!?!?!?

If I carry my handgun concealed after this 30 day time frame I think I could very well be arrested for carrying a concealed handgun in my state which I believe is a Felony Conviction!

EVEN THOUGH my current concealed carry permit is supposed to be good until half way though 2010!

The laws that are on the books currently are from an Era in the State of North Carolina where a little something called Jim Crow laws were created.

What the Jim Crow laws regarding weapons possession were for was to prevent blacks from legally owning ANY firearms!

In some counties in North Carolina have laws that you have to pay three different local mental hospitals to show proof that you do not have a record there and submit it to the Sheriff Issuing the permit!

EVERY Sheriff in the State of North Carolina has the right to deny ANYONE from getting a concealed permit WITHOUT GIVING A REASON!

I am not going to let Red Tape wipe it's butt with the Bill of Rights.

I AM going to take a NEW concealed carry course locally and then drop that information off at my NEW Sheriff's office.

In the meantime I will continue to carry my concealed carry permit on my person along with my firearm. They can shove the Bureaucracy right into the inkwell.

Also there is a 90-120 day wait time for concealed carry permit process to go through in my area along with a 100 fee for the class and a 100 fee for a new permit.! Also a 90-120 day wait time just to get a permit to purchase a handgun in my area not even to carry concealed just to BUY one!

I could get convicted of a crime, go to court, get sentence, do time in jail, pay a fine and be released in less time then it would take for me with a Currently Active Top Secret Clearance to get a new concealed carry permit.

THANKS a lot for telling me that I have the right to exercise my Second Amendment Rights!

I really appreciate my Government ALLOWING me the PRIVILEGE to bear arms. I have done everything by the books and I am STILL getting reamed!


I am tempted to write to my Attorney Generals Office but I do not see the Jim Crow laws ever going away. It gives the Ultimate Power and Authority on who can and cannot own guns to the Government. NOT to the people.

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:47 PM
I have never heard of anything so stupid. I can see needing to inform the new sherrif of your move into his county. But why would the sherriff in the old county need to know? That will be reflected on the tax rolls.
I wish you luck.

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 12:59 PM
reply to post by kettlebellysmith

Thanks. Like I said I am a good dog.

I roll over when they tell me.

I sit and stay when they tell me.

I stop barking when they tell me.

But I will be damned If I am going to go play fetch for a distance of driving that could take me the equivalent distance of driving to Canada.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by TurkeyBurgers]

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:07 PM
It's one thing when the bureaucrats want every I dotted and every T crossed but when they make it improbable to do so it's tyranny. In this case it's disarmament by proxy. This is what is meant by those who oppose gun-control for all of you out there who keep repeating the idiotic "but nobody want to take your guns away." Either you people are too stupid to get it or you think we're too stupid to understand what is happening.

Sounds like NC is a "may issue" state and that's bull. Even the big blue of CT is a "shall issue" state. Never mind "issuing" either way violates the 2nd.

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:20 PM
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

I agree, the whole, you have to apply to carry a weapon is absolute bull#.

They already make us jump through enough hoops as it is.


To the OP that sucks, I don't see how the laws can be different between county to county. The absolute BS of it all is that we shouldn't have to go through this BS to begin with.

I hope you get things straightened out.

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:28 PM
glad i don't live there.
here in pa. i go to the sheriff of the county i live in pick up the application and fill it out there or come back with it, sign it there, pay $15 cash(non-refundable) they take my pic, and by state law they can not deny me if they don't have a reason to, and must notify me within 30 days if approved or not. then i go back and pay another $10 ($2 extra for lamination)and i walk out happy with my new permit- which is good for 5 years. i do not need it to buy a gun (actually it is not accepted- need a DL or state ID) and i can carry anywhere in the state except for federal buildings and courthouses but the latter have to have a place i can check it into and i must declare so BEFORE i go thru the metal detectors. if i move my permit is still valid but when i renew i must go to the county i moved to to renew it. don't need classes or anything here to get a permit. nothing with having to go back to the old county! that is absurd!
sorry to here your state is so controlling and i totally agree with you about the runaround- that is total bs as i believe totally in the 2nd amendment. anyone should be allowed to own and carry guns except of course violent criminals, mental states etc. altho might want them on our side when the time comes to rise up lol

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:34 PM
In NH we can carry openly with no permit. If we wish to conceal (or carry loaded while in a vehicle) we have to go down to the sheriffs office and fill out a form with our name, address, social and three character references and $10.

Unless you fail the background check you get your permit in 14 days or less.

They give you this giant sheet but if you're carrying you have to have your permit so most everyone shrinks it on the photocopier and jams it in their wallet.

No picture or SS is on the permit itself. just a name and an address and an expiration date. It's good for four years I think.

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 01:42 PM
my permit is the size of a DL with my pic and just pertinent info on it.
on the back it says if found please return to ___ sheriffs dept.
pa. is also an open carry state but i never do so not sure if i need the permit on not- i always carry concealed- i prefer to not have a bullseye on me

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 03:11 PM
reply to post by bigfoot1212

The thing is Bigfoot the Sheriff can deny you a concealed carry permit and not have to give you a reason in my state. They can just say "no" and that is the end of the line. The buck stops there as they say. That is not my reason for having trouble with my permit but it is a HUGE reason that still exists.

The Sheriff does not even have to put your information through an FBI background check if they choose not to. They can get your application, wait 4 months and tell you no I could never process it that far. That is the end of it right there.

Judge Jury and Executioner.

Who do I even begin to air my grievances with about my issues?

In a country that is so Gun Ban Happy I am made to look like a Gun Nut Extremist!

I do not even like hunting. I hate killing animals and insects. I am PROUD to be a citizen of the United States of America. I am PROUD to have served in my nations Military.

I am ASHAMED of the way that the second amendment is being used like toilet paper.

There is nothing I am more enthusiastic about than Gun Ownership.

It is the ONE and ONLY thing that separates citizens from subjects.

NO person is EVER going to be attacked or raped that has a handgun in their possession. It is the great equalizer. Size means jack to a bullet.

No human being is EVER going to be a slave who has a rifle in their hands. They may die fighting but they will die a FREE human.

The very REASON that police carry guns is the very reason that I carry a gun. Law is enforced through the barrel of a gun. That scares me a little bit. I LIKE when cops get the bank robbers and murderers and rapists and car jackers. I LIKE Police. I do NOT like to live in a society where one group who lives among the population has access to firearms and the rest do not.

I live near a major city and there is a seriously high number of murders in my area every year. Not to mention a high level of crime. But that is to be expected in a large populated area. ALL that I am DEMANDING, because I am through begging and asking it has now come to be on my terms, all that I am demanding is my right to carry either open or concealed.

I will never be a victim. I will never be a slave. I may die but I will go out with an empty weapon and no reloads.

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 03:18 PM
This bureaucratic threat to turn you into a felon fits nicely with the subject of this thread.

Just as there is no aspect of your life that isnt watched over by some government branch at some level there really isnt much in your daily life is unquestionably legal anymore either.

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:11 PM
i hear your pain and agree 100% with you turkeyburgers.
it's not right to have a judge jury and executioner all rolled into one esp. to decide on a basic right of the constitution. how can you deny someone a right to the constitution just because you feel like it?
in pa. the sheriff only takes the application and the state police have to do the background(which i assume includes an fbi and atf check).
at least you can get one even if it is after a hassle- better hope the sheriff doesn't like you for some reason tho lol
want unconstitutional- try NY NJ CA for starters. i live 5 minutes from joysey and they aren't even allowed to own a RIFLE without a permit (even in the home)if they can even get one and forget about a ccw.
best you can do is write your congressman and bitch (won't help but makes you feel like you did something anyway). constitutional rights should belong to the STATE and not some local yokel authority. nor should it belong to the feds(ATF)
i always figured NC to be a liberal gun state because of all the hunting and being a southern state but thanks for opening my eyes to that

posted on Jul, 24 2009 @ 07:21 PM
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

and you are right on that my friend.
they are constantly passing some kind of law to make everyone a felon about something even if it has been ok to do for years. seems like they just sit around and say"hmmm what can we make up today and not tell anyone about just to F$^ them and put them in jail and be good little sheeple?" guns are a big issue because they are scared of us which on one hand is good but on the other bad because they will find a way somehow to disarm us and make us servants (not that we aren't already)so we can't fight back.
they want felons they should take a good look up their own asses and the others who have ruined this country.leave us alone. so much for life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness

posted on Jul, 29 2009 @ 10:00 PM
turkeyburgers check out this
maybe will have some info you might want to check out.
i was surprised NC has the highest reciprocacy of ccw licenses of any state.
also i found out PA ccw is now allowed in 25 states! 2 years ago it was only 10. obamaphobia? lmao
disclaimer: even tho you may be allowed to carry in different states you must abide by the laws of that state- not the state you have a permit for!!

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