Any difference between slavery and the idea of jobs?

This probably doesn't belong here but I don't post much but read a ton and this is something I had to get out and I know most ATS members would understand.

The first thought that probably comes to mind is that you get paid for a job. What do you do with the money? Buy shelter, food, etc. Slaves were provided with that to keep them alive and healthy enough to work. You could say that you can quit a job anytime you want, but how long can you go without one in this money based economy? Most jobs require you to answer to some higher power, very few are at the top, very few are considered owners. You can say you get to choose your profession, but no matter how bad you want it, the job isn't yours to choose. The job is given to you, all you to is give a suggestion of what you might like to do and they pick the canidates that are best suited to do what they want. Most of the world are slaves to this system, toiling and producing and taking what we can get while the few take all that they want without being noticed due to the size of the "operation." TPTP realized that the amount they can take increases as the size of the "operation" increases so their goal is to increase production thus giving them access to more. All you have to do id think of our economy (yes our economy, becasue we produce the goods and do every bit of work,essentially controling what gets produced and when; do you think TPTB would bother with something like that) as a bag of jelly beans, the beans representing all that is produced, and money being the way to moniter and regulate it, then what is essentially going on becomes very clear. If I had a bag of 100 jellybeans and you came in and undeservingly took 5 I wouldn't really notice. Take any more and you are pushing it and I might realize whats going on and do something about it. But if i had a bag of 1,000,000 jelly beans, you could take more than you could eat without me ever noticing. This is essentially what TPTB set up our economy to be. The silverlining is that in our economy the "beans" have been counted and a record has been kept. We can count the "beans" anytime we want and be able to tell that a lot have been taken. Why do you think TPTB are pushing so hard against auditing of the Fed? They don't want us to know they have been sticking their stubby fingers in our bag.

Has any technology ever been released that didn't have some other motive behind it? Engines help produce more faster, health products keep workers healthier and alive longer, allowing them to maximize their output, the list goes on.

The idea of money is the key to the perfect slave, he thinks that the time he is spending is a fair trade for the money he receives, but it turns out this money is worthless and the time can not be replaced.

It's all slavery ...the only difference is with one of them you just get to go home at the end of the day.


People like to think they are free, but in a lot of ways we are endentured servants operating under the guise of free will.

There is free will, just so long as it's approved and allowed.


Just my own opinion, obviously. My outlook may not be the best example.

This is exactly what i have been discussing with all my friends and family..most of them dont get it.
Each time i see unemploytement numbers i say GOOD free at last! But all around me say "Too bad..we have the RIGHT to have a job"
And so on..
Yesterday i discussed retirement and how a pension is calculated, people dont understand that to get a pension, x % of all 62 years old have to die..the sooner the better.

I understand people need to pay the bills and have children to feed. Get rid of the bills, get together with your neighbour and feed from earth. Back to neanderthal ages!

This is how utopia looks like.
THE VENUS PROJECT


[edit on 24-7-2009 by gusan]

reply to post by ModestThought


Basically you're talking about a resource based economy, similar to what The Venus Project was conceived for.

And I find it fascinating. But the main issue with it currently is the lack of technology to make it possible. They need the tech to harness/generate the energy to keep the society powered and fuelled, the tech to use that energy cleanly and efficiently, and the tech to make things available to all who want them.

Because if people are lead to 'want', then they will do things to make that possible, such as chores or tasks extra to their normal lives. And then you're back to a bartering system which would most likely lead to a monetary system again.

Personally i think it's a great idea but again, the currently level of technology is there to make it all a reality. At least I don't think so.

Personally, I want to quit my job. I have hated it for a while now. But I have also been job searching for a while now, with no luck. I know RN's who can't find jobs right now! So I do feel stuck in this dead end job, I am unhappy. Thank goodness I do enjoy my co workers and my boss is a great guy, it is the job itself I am tired of, too many drunks late at night, too much weird stuff going on anymore for me!

I only feel like a slave to the system though, not my job. It is the system that has let me down. Harrased in high school I quit, I graduated tech school nearly 20 years ago, what I learned is now pretty much obsolete. I cannot return to school, I am too stuck working to pay the bills to do that, I would niether have the time or the money. Sad to say, but the best thing that could happen to me right now, would be to get laid off, draw unemployment while I go back to school, for up to 2 years (what everyone getting laid off is doing).

[edit on 24-7-2009 by space cadet]

Jaque Fresco on youtube

If we asked the earths population about this..would we have 99.999% pro venus project? Yess! All but a bunch of rich guys would say yes ..

reply to post by noonebutme


I think technology has reached that point long ago. It is not available, but thats another question.
The day technology is really for the good og human kind, venus p would be an easy task, but as for today technology is power, power is dominion, dominion is slavery.

Besides; if P venus or any other project, say a little island -say Cuba- outside any country -say USA- would deside to live out of the dollar and consumtion society..how long would it take before TPTB would lay an embargo to it? Or invade it? lol

Just assume we get together 1 or 2 million people, we buy this area somewere and just want to live quiet and peacefully..maaan we have to look for a biig space ship and a nice place far from the solar system because here on earth we would be acused of terrorism in a minute, and jupiter and mars is allready taken.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by gusan]

In many cases, Slaves were treated better than many who are employed. Slave owners always made sure the slaves were fed and had shelter. working in the current system food and shelter are no guarantee.

Don't just think about westerners here. Think about the workers in the 3rd world who make the goods we in the west consume. They contribute to the production of things yet they share little of the fruits of their labor

or you could just read the Ragged Trousered Philanthropists by Robert tressell

Anyone that can provide the basic necessities of life are some of the most free people in the world. I.e. farmers. If you own enough land to be able to provide most of your food that is a true testament to freedom nowadays. Most jobs nowadays are no different than being a slave like some of you have mentioned. I think about this all the time. I'd rather have a lot less money but have a lot more land, some animals, be able to provide for my self. We has westernized, industrialized humans have been stripped of our basic ability to provide for ourselves the basic things in life, food, shelther etc. I think some nomadic goat herder in Afghanistan is probably a lot more free and a lot happier than I am. I mean the paycheck 9-5 cycle being at the mercy of some stupid company gets old. I'd trade a lot of luxuries I have for the freedom a lot of third worlders have. This is a reason why has land ownership gets scarce we as a nation lose our freedom/s.

Good points there.
It is just as you say, you must work in order to have a home, no money, no where to live.
One could go live in a tent if the location allows it, concidering bad winters etc. and you are not allowed to wander the streets in many countries, that leads to some small jail time..

Where can one live without have to have lots of money and a paychech each month? in the woods unless some one owns that piece of the earth.

They even own the rock we live on, even though it belongs to every one of us equally. The state wants its 'rent' so if every one lived on the streets, they would get much cash, or we make an International No Buy day where we do not spend one dime on any thing....

Think of all the money that will not be rolling into TPTB's pockets that day.

The difference is today everyone has a choice - though most aren't willing to get off the track.

The less you consume - the less you have to work. Real slavery - you'd be working long hours all the time.

Personally I'm a part time slave. I've been self employed for over 15 years and though I like the nice things money buys I've always found taking time off more important than making lots of money.

To a point I agree that we are slaves to a very unbalanced economic system. Yet slaves have zero rights, are considered property, and can be purchased and sold like animals. I watched a documentary last night on Oxygen called "Slave girls of India" with Lisa Ling and it was very eye opening to the real slavery that exists in our "modern" world. I checked youtube but could find nothing on there.

We are slaves to a system but that is a far different thing that truly being a slave.

I don't think jobs have a lot in common with slavery. Slavery means to be owned by someone and that this owner can do whatever he wants with his slaves. A superior can certainly not do whatever he wants with his subordinates. In a job you always have the choice to just go away.

The system we live in is not perfect and a lot of people are being exploited but one has to work to get something. And going back to live 'feeding from the earth' would have severe disadvantages. If everyone is just supplying themselves and their families we wouldn't have specialization, that means no advanced technology (like for example indoor plumbing or internet) and no doctors.

I personally kinda like the medical attention being always available.
The solution to that kind of problem is just the distribution of work. If everyone who can would work, the total amount of work for an individual would decline, but the benefits would rise. Think just about how many people are unemployed all over the world and how much could be achieved if they weren't.

In today's world, we all work for slavery inc. It is the biggest company in the world, we know it as the global economy. We all need it to survive, we have no choice in the matter...we were all born into slavery.

The true owner of slavery inc. is the dark one. he has deceived us all into believing his lie. Live your life despite this, always remembering that you have borrowed the time you have. Only after death will you be free.

I agree that a farmer that provides main needs for his family are the real free ones. BUT, here in sweden the system does not let you. Think if a collective of farmers would just trade among eachother..what is in it for the gov? So it is not allowed, you MUST sell your product you MUST pay taxes and you can not hide.

Originally posted by gusan
I agree that a farmer that provides main needs for his family are the real free ones. BUT, here in sweden the system does not let you. Think if a collective of farmers would just trade among eachother..what is in it for the gov? So it is not allowed, you MUST sell your product you MUST pay taxes and you can not hide.

Goverments are seldom profitable businisses, most governments have debts in the height of billions.
Taxes are paid for certain services, like streets, schools and police. Seriously paying no taxes is just like going in a store, taking a coke and leaving without paying for it.
Besides, a government does not need to relay on a tax-system, if it wanted all the money they would just take it, who could stop them?

You are always free to make a choice when it comes to showing kindness to strangers. Its in your power to alleviate another person's hunger; thirst or loneliness. Every person can still make a difference even within an unfair economic system. We are only truly slaves when we forget that we are all in the image of God. Every person should retain their dignity and worth. There are two commandments - Love God and love your neighbour. Everything else is just an appendage to this. If a an economic or political system tries to stop you following those two commands you have the right to rebel and fight for a fairer society.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by Circle]

We're slaves in that there is no option other than to have an income. Even if your family has has land for generations with plenty of food, fertile soil, clean water and timber for structures etc... you could be totally self-reliant and free from any slavery BUT you have to pay tax on that property to government. To pay that tax you need an income. Having an income subjects you to income tax thereby reducing the amount of income you have to put toward property tax requiring you to increase your income.

Eventually you do not have the time for your homesteading/farming so you begin to supplement what you need with that income of yours from the supermarkets.

The end result is that you're right back in your chains.

As long as there are taxes enforced at the point of a gun there is no freedom. You're just share-cropping #.

Well...work is voluntary...you can choose which job you want to do...you can spend your money as foolishly or as tightly as you like...you aren't punished or whipped if you choose to leave or take a day off

So yeah I am gonna go with the idea that job is nothing like slavery.

-Kyo

reply to post by KyoZero


Making survival dependant on a paycheck - that is slavery.
What's more, in overpopulated countries such as China and India, and underdeveloped ones in Africa, unskilled labourers are forced to take whatever they get. The conditions these people are forced to work under, and the amounts they get paid would shock most.
We might even see this happen in the states, if it isn't happening already.

You might argue that these conditions in these countries are as such due to other reasons (politics, war etc.). That may be so, however this global crisis has now highlighted the shortcomings of the capitalist system, in that all people of all countries are feeling the strain.

Food, shelter and protection are basic rights. Perhaps an economic systems that places this at the core of it's foundation, and not consumption, would better serve it's people.