EXCLUSIVE: Live pigs wounded, euthanized in troop trauma training

I think they ought to use violent criminals and death row inmates for this. This would provide them a means to contribute, rather than just sit in prison.

In case you didn't realize it, military forces around the world, in most civilizations throughout history, have used both live and dead animals for weapons testing and combat training. But it wasn't limited to live animal targets — human beings were used, as well. In the ancient times and right through the middle ages, it wasn't unusual in some cultures to use prisoners of war for combat training.

Since we're talking about pigs, however, I'll point out that live pigs (and goats) were used extensively in U.S. nuclear weapons testing back in the 40s and 50s, and probably more recently than that.

In the American Southwest, where the first nuclear weapons were tested, live pigs and goats were placed in pits at varying distances from Ground Zero, to observe the effects of hard Gamma radiation and heat exposure on living tissue. The results were gruesome, to put it mildly.

What's worse is that American troops were also used in these tests. The boys were given "pep talks" about the harmlessness of radiation and nuclear fallout, usually just before they were ordered to advance into a nuclear testing area, with the mushroom cloud still hanging in the sky above them.

In the Pacific, where nuclear testing continued for years, live pigs and other animals were tethered to the decks of target vessels before the nuclear device was detonated. There still exists military footage of those poor creatures writhing in their death throes, with half the flesh blasted off of them and the rest burned to charcoal.

It only makes sense that the military would use animals to test the effectiveness of its weaponry and combat training. It's easier to cover up the deaths of thousands of farm animals than it is to conceal the deaths of a handful of human test subjects. I mean, if the cosmetics industry and medical establishment can still get away with torturing animals to death in the name of "bettering the human condition," then you know the military is still getting away with it. In spades.

— Doc Velocity

The US military has been using animals for decades to train medics. The civilian doctors train on cadavers, and by the way, do a hell of a lot of OJT.

In such a manner, one learns to stop arterial bleeding, use of emergency clamps and techniques, which saves soldiers lives.

Dogs are used and pigs are used, although pigs have more common and similar tissues than other animals.

It may be hard to believe, but most soldiers injuries are due to shredding gunshots and explosions. No real way to expose them to what they'll see on a battlefield without exposing them to what they'll see on the battlefield.

I talked to a surgeon who was in Viet Nam, and he said he gained more trauma experience in two tours in Viet Nam than he could have gotten in a decade here in the US.

Anyone who has a problem with this is one sick puppy.

The objective is to save lives, under awful conditions, as quickly as possible, as effectively as possible.

Our medics don't have X-rays, MRI's, CAT scans, and a team of ER personnel in the field. They have to treat and stabilize within moments.

Thanks to these animals, they can.

reply to post by Icarus Rising


Well few people raise pigs to be cudly pets eh? .. They are going to die one way or another..

As long as they made bacon from their victims, I am OK with the Army butchering, then trying to save, then butchering pigs. hey..

They could sell the bacon to found their wars???

"Uncle Sam Wants YOU! .... to have high cholesterol..."

Cruelty to animals is unacceptable. I don't care how people try to rationalize or excuse it. It's wrong.

And no, I don't eat meat of any kind.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by faulconandsnowjob]

reply to post by faulconandsnowjob


Who says it's unacceptable?

You?

Methinks you place yourself mighty highly on the pedestal of judgment.

You're right. It's much more humane to gas these dogs.

And hit the hogs in the head with a pneumatic hammer and then butcher them and eat them.

Funny, I've eaten both, and enjoyed both.

You should try a nice pork sandwich, or some Fido jerky.

And don't talk so big. You get hungry enough, you'll eat the butt out of an alligator.

While he's swimming.

[edit on 24-7-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by dooper


In total agreement.

Without hands on training, with animals, the medic would be as helpless as the wounded

Originally posted by huntergatherer
reply to post by dooper

 

In total agreement.

Without hands on training, with animals, the medic would be as helpless as the wounded

I to agree... but I also agree that cruelty to animals is bad...

Perhaps we could sacrifice Vegans?

reply to post by Rockpuck

Cruelty to animals is dumb. They take measures to ensure that the animals will not suffer during their "participation."

Most of the dogs were already on the execution list, and had this opportunity to contribute to the world.

I would imagine that these hogs would be later on a spit somewhere. No use wasting a good hog.

reply to post by ravenshadow13


that was not his point, this pigs are no ones pet's

Second line.

I believe this is a good thing to do.

negative energy to the planet? Make them mindless to violence? Animal cruelty?

let me put it like this. I have played video games all my life. Never seen a dieing or dead person in my life other than from a video game. My neighbors recently had an emergency, and I saw a dieing member of their family being brought to the hospital.

I felt no emotion at all.

I actually feel guilt for not feeling sad.

But that's me.

So why would pigs possibly matter, is someone like me feels no emotion to the sight of emergency from video games?



Animal cruelty? most definably. but so what? If it's for the betterment of human life, I feel it is more important to save humans than to save farm animals. I they are being tested for genetics and medical, I'd feel different, because that's actually altering the creatures brain and body for the purpose of purposely suffering them to see the affect.s This is injuring them for the purpose of healing them.


Negative energy? Religion and personal looks of spirituality and stuff have no place in these discussions.

I didn't think this story had been previously posted as the nctimes site claimed an exclusive on it and I used the search function on ATS without turning up any hits.

antar, I completely understand your sentiment, and may God bless you for your compassion and empathy in your stewardship of His creation.

That said, in addressing similar responses, we are stewards of the animals, and that means we must make decisions like this and be responsible for the consequences.

"Live tissue training saves lives of Marines and sailors on the battlefield," a spokesman said in a written statement, adding it has "proven to be the single most effective medical training method for teaching combat casualty care as well as combat trauma management and cannot be replaced or replicated by a simulator."

This decision has been made, and I don't believe lightly, and I think those who made it are aware of the ramifications.

I don't believe the meat is consumed after the training is completed. It is probably contaminated and as such disposed of accordingly.

I have friends and relatives currently deployed in the war zones as many members here do. T

Thankfully, none of mine have been killed or seriously wounded. But if something bad happened to one of them and their life was saved by someone who had gained experience by operating on a pig - I surely wouldn't lament the lost life of the pig. I think most rational persons would feel the same.

Originally posted by dooper
The US military has been using animals for decades to train medics. The civilian doctors train on cadavers, and by the way, do a hell of a lot of OJT.

In such a manner, one learns to stop arterial bleeding, use of emergency clamps and techniques, which saves soldiers lives.

Dogs are used and pigs are used, although pigs have more common and similar tissues than other animals.

It may be hard to believe, but most soldiers injuries are due to shredding gunshots and explosions. No real way to expose them to what they'll see on a battlefield without exposing them to what they'll see on the battlefield.

I talked to a surgeon who was in Viet Nam, and he said he gained more trauma experience in two tours in Viet Nam than he could have gotten in a decade here in the US.

Anyone who has a problem with this is one sick puppy.

The objective is to save lives, under awful conditions, as quickly as possible, as effectively as possible.

Our medics don't have X-rays, MRI's, CAT scans, and a team of ER personnel in the field. They have to treat and stabilize within moments.

Thanks to these animals, they can.

Very good post
I am sure the majority of ppl don't realize this ,but only a VERY small amount of Military Medics need this **Special Training**
We aren't talking about the average 68W

I thought this was common practice around the world, well, except in Middle Eastern armies

At a time when we openly allow Halal style butchering of animals, where the throat is slit open while the animal is still alive, I really don't see we have any right to complain about a pig that has been rendered unconscious prior to euthanization.

We do the same to humans.

Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
I think they ought to use violent criminals and death row inmates for this. This would provide them a means to contribute, rather than just sit in prison.

haha. I agree.

Kinda off topic but I was shot in iraq and was immediatly treated pretty well. I dont care what they train on as long as it raises the chances of saving wounded soldiers!

[edit on 24-7-2009 by jeasahtheseer]

reply to post by SFwife

I always said if it were on me or one of my family, and emergency traumatic surgery were required, I'd rather a SF Medic do the heavy lifting and let the pretty boys with their medical diplomas close.

Yeah. They're THAT good.

Originally posted by dooper
I always said if it were on me or one of my family, and emergency traumatic surgery were required, I'd rather a SF Medic do the heavy lifting and let the pretty boys with their medical diplomas close.

Yeah. They're THAT good.

My vote is for PJs, ever since one stitched up my thumb when I was about four years old!

EDITORIAL: Marines' training ugly, but worth it

Like it or not, war is an ugly business. And while the military has long held that combat experiences cannot be fully duplicated, spokesmen tell us these "live tissue training" sessions come closer than any other reasonable alternative.

(Even People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, which is battling the practice, is not attacking the Valley Center training itself on animal cruelty issues ---- its opening salvo to halt it was based on the training violating land-use regulations. It doesn't.)

Moreover, we doubt that any of the practice's critics would want their traumatic injuries being treated in a hospital emergency room by a medically unlicensed, uncertified Marine corporal as a training experience.

That about sums it up, I think. Until we, as humans, transcend the practice of settling our differences through violence, which leads to war among nations, it will be necessary to train medical personnel under realistic conditions to treat battlefield wounded. Right now, this as close as we can get.

MILITARY: County says zoning allows medical training with pigs

MILITARY: PETA contends Valley Center training violates zoning

MILITARY: Training with pigs started in Escondido in 2006

MILITARY: 'Live tissue training' involves 1,374 local troops

Having done needle crichs, chest tubes, and other assorted procedures on sheep, I fully support the Armies use of these adjucts as training aids. They work, you get the training you need, and it will save lives.