Thinking with your heart

Originally posted by pai mei


Life is not about "safety". It's about "play".

This is so true... people have forgotten how to play,, and have become far too serious... we need to chill out a bit, ,, the world is a catastrophy... but not much we can do about it in a hurry...

[edit on

Yes very good. The heart center is really where thinking occurs but integrating it properly with the spiritual intent is becoming unnatural (so to say). This is because of all the dissipated attention, distractions and isolation. Education seems to ruin commonsense and creates this pseudo intellectual that really doesn't "understand". Proper discrimination and discernment come with a balanced heart.

When Yamamoto Gorozaemon went to the priest Tetsugyu in Edo wanting to hear something about Buddhism, Tetsugyo said,
"Buddhism gets rid of the discriminating mind. It is nothing more than this."

------------------

Once a group of ten blind masseuses were traveling together in the mountains, and when they began to pass along the top of a precipice, they all became very cautious, their legs shook, and they were in general struck with terror. Just then the leading man stumbled and fell of the cliff. Those that were left all wailed, "Ahh, ahh I How piteous!" But the masseuse who had fallen veiled up from below, "Don't be afraid. Although I fell, it was nothing. I am now rather at ease. Before falling I kept thinking 'What will I do if I fall?' and there was no end to my anxiety. But now I've settled down. If the rest of you want to be at ease, fall quickly!''

Hagakure

...we identify happiness with the maximum possible insulation from danger, dirt, and discomfort. But of course, this insulation cuts us off even further from the world and, so, exacerbates the separation that is the actual source of the pain.

A saying goes, "Seek not to cover the world in leather—just wear shoes." It is a spiritual cliché that happiness is not to be found by engineering the world so that everything goes your way: such happiness is transient, doomed. But that's the way we act, culturally and individually, much of the time. Someday, everything will be perfect and we'll be able to relax and be happy forever."

www.ascentofhumanity.com...

[edit on 22-7-2009 by pai mei]

reply to post by monkcaw


I think you are confused. You also seem bitter.

To say one should "Follow their heart" evokes romantic notions of meaning and clarity as if the solution to our distressing lives is revealed by simply living by what our heart wants. And this is all well and good as long as heart wants what is good.

But I don't see the heart as a kind master. It lies, wanders, distracts, deludes, blinds, hungers... It too must be bridled otherwise these passions would rule and toss us this way and that. We'd be nothing more than large children. Children, too, live by their heart and have you ever wondered why we never need to teach them to be selfish, violent or deceptive?

It does evoke romantic notions but not if you are trying to understand it properly. You have to separate the heart from emotion and passion.

Our emotions are mostly programed by various components of society, family, religion, gov., education. Our emotions are no longer pure.

Romance doesn't necessarily come from the heart. We all know where the majority of this 'passion' resides. True love, however, does come from the heart and passion doesn't rule love. Love rules passion if it is from the heart.

It is not the heart that must be bridled, it is your passions that you allow to rule you.

This, of course, is just my take on things. I am sure others can elaborate and explain much better than I.

Originally posted by monkcaw
Even with the millions of lives that have come and gone through the ages the one thing that doesn't change is the condition of the human heart. And even though a tribe doesn't have a word for "want" I assure you they want nonetheless.

It's very hard to even imagine a race of humans not as corrupt as we've been. Think how different we humans were 60 years ago. Now think 200 years ago. Now try thinking thousands of years ago.

I know it's hard to think cultures could be completely honest and not wanting anything because of the way we've been for quite some time now. 3000 years ago they wouldn't be thinking anything like we are now, as everyone's consciousness is a product of its setting.

The only rational thing to justify what humans want is love. When we think only with our brain, love is thought of as 'wanted' and 'needed'. In reality, love is everywhere.

Beautiful thread!

It makes me wonder when will the "Civilized West" finally realize truth.
I believe the time is coming, awareness spreads fast.

I can find some photos of children playing and being happy in the garbage fields where they live in some third world country.

"Suffering" is not in their mind.

What's the problem then ? Our slave, each for himself "organization". When they grow up they realize that. Yes you are human like us, no we are not here "together". It would not matter even if the entire planet was a garbage dump - if we would behave as we do when we are children. As a tribe. Before we get "Educated" , masks glued to our faces, behaving like machines, maintaining this lie. Knowing "there must be something wrong" somewhere, but we cannot see the glued mask. It's too close. Most identify with it.

The natural way people behave when they are little, they form groups of friends-incipient tribes. These would last for millions of years if "education", "economy", "slave culture" , the ZEKS would not interfere. Separation of life into work and play. Instead of just life.

Some tribes do not know the meaning of the word "unhappy" or "depressed". They live in the moment and are as happy as they can be. Natural Zen masters.

Those who haven't been exposed to the hypocrisies of a "civilized" education react to things naturally, as they happen. It is in the here and now that they are either happy or unhappy, joyful or sad, interested or indifferent. The superiority of pure Indians like these Guajiros was striking. They could outdo us in everything: when they adopted someone, everything they had belonged to him; and when anyone showed them the least attention, they were profoundly moved

www.scribd.com...

The managers of Gulag's islands tell us that the swimmers, crawlers, walkers and fliers spent their lives working in order to eat.

These managers are broadcasting their news too soon. The varied beings haven't all been exterminated yet. You, reader, have only to mingle with them, or just watch them from a distance, to see that their waking lives are filled with dances, games and feasts. Even the hunt, the stalking and feigning and leaping, is not what we call Work, but what we call Fun. The only beings who work are the inmates of Gulag's islands, the zeks.

The zek's ancestors did less work than a corporation owner. They didn't know what work was. They lived in a condition J.J. Rousseau called "the state of nature." Rousseau's term should be brought back into common use. It grates on the nerves of those who, in R. Vaneigem's words, carry cadavers in their mouths. It makes the armor visible. Say "the state of nature" and you'll see the cadavers peer out.

Insist that "freedom" and "the state of nature" are synonyms, and the cadavers will try to bite you. The tame, the domesticated, try to monopolize the word freedom; they'd like to apply it to their own condition. They apply the word "wild" to the free. But it is another public secret that the tame, the domesticated, occasionally become wild but are never free so long as they remain in their pens.

www.primitivism.com...

The False Self

We have internalized our masters, which is a well-known psychological response to trauma.

www.primitivism.com...


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[edit on 23-7-2009 by pai mei]

reply to post by pai mei


Hello pai mei,

I like you. Im touched by your thread. As it is now I believe i think with my head and react with my heart. You've given me a lot to think about. Thank you, Magantice

reply to post by teapot

If one thinks with one's heart, should one therefore love with one's head?

I think it's the fact all the wrong parts of the anatomy are being used for the wrong things. We 'think' with our heads, we 'love' with our *you-know-what. I shouldn't have to SAY it.* Our hearts are: broken, missing, some killed it off themselves for money, power, ect. Our culture (such as it is) has no concept of 'love'- only gimmie gimmie gimmie. I heard something last night... and I think it may actually work: " The most profound words arent 'I love you' but "Let me help".... Where is just helping, just because? Why is it people now stand around with their hands out and a cough like that Doorman on the Jeffersons after they have 'helped'? Why is love nothing more than a collection of hormones, and how fast you can wham bam thank ya maam (or man), and little else?

I think I'd die from shock if I ever had someone actually show me love. The truly horrifying thing is... I HAVE shown actual love- and I was met with scorn, laughter, and all out refusal. Those times are past, and I am a much more hardened person for it.

reply to post by pai mei

Some tribes do not know the meaning of the word "unhappy" or "depressed". They live in the moment and are as happy as they can be.

Where? Where? WHERE??? I'll pack up all my crap, sell what I can, and MOVE IN.
I done had it with this life. I really have.

reply to post by wylekat


Yequana from Venezuala for example. Book "The Continuum Concept". But that was in 1970 when the author of the book visited them

Tribes here :
www.survival-international.org...

reply to post by pai mei


None of those people look particularly happy... Not with money grubbing (insert expletives of choice here) taking their land, their livelihood, their lives, and anything else within easy reach. If I were to try to move in with any of those people- first, I'd be killed, or I'd be blamed for any disease that would be brought.... On the other side of things, I'd be targeted by the rich greedies- who think I could be bought, bribed- and when they found out otherwise, THEY'D kill me.

Talk about a no win scenario.... That website does show the greed that the corporate world has.

Absolutely wonderful thread! Is there a difference between WANT & NEED?
When i go out clothes shopping, i split my time between the charity shops & the high street shops. No one can tell the difference!
Is greed another word associated with this? Personally i can't stand GREED in any shape or form. Ok so i've scoffed a whole packet of JAFFA akes, but i classed that as a treat!

Originally posted by wylekat


I think I'd die from shock if I ever had someone actually show me love. The truly horrifying thing is... I HAVE shown actual love- and I was met with scorn, laughter, and all out refusal. Those times are past, and I am a much more hardened person for it.

I know what you mean, and have experienced the same thing... but dont give up on love..., there is not enough of it in the world.. I would still love, even if it doesnt get returned... it is not something that runs out,. and you never know when it can find you...

Originally posted by mckyle

Originally posted by maria_stardust
Honestly, if there's anything this world needs more of, it's empathy.

Maria, you hit it right on the head!

A star for you and a flag if I could

I agree 100% but the problem is whenever someone shows empathy or sympathy for another that 75% of the population will take advanatage of you. And then you find your self wanting to do good but afriad to go out again. basicly becoming a cold hearted bastard that will step over someone bleeding in the streets then help them out.

reply to post by liveandlearn


Thanks pai mei, probably the most useful thread I have seen on this site, personally. I find it a nice change from the "I am an alien " type of thing.

Liveandlearn, you elaborated your point very well. It made great sense to myself at least.

reply to post by Jacqua

and you never know when it can find you...

This isn't a stab at you- but HA. 'Love' has had every opportunity to find me. methinks the original concept died some decades ago.

reply to post by wylekat


To truly love is to sacrifice and to suffer.

To truly love risks much. Too many observers see love as a sign of weakness.

In a fallen world obsessed with money, sex and power, love is the threat.

reply to post by pai mei


Please don't forget that the heart, the seat of our feelings, also feels the dark side of human nature; evil as well as love.

Your reference to the Gulag does not sit well with me. As I understand it, those people sent to the Child Gulags, left to raise themselves, are now Russia's shame, not because the country regrets or repents such brutality as jailing children in concentration camps, but because of what became of those children, how their social environment corrupted and hardened them.