ATF to Montana: 'You will respect our authoritah!'

This posting is just another example of people complaining and taking no action. Can you blame the federal government for exercising powers that we constantly relinquish in the name of security?

To quote the movie American History X, "there's alot of big talk but no follow through."

Until Americans are ready to actually do something, there's no point even discussing it. Sure, its fantastic to share information and hopefully educate others, but, the people that you're reaching here are people who already are aware that the government is corrupt. This accomplishes nothing. And the thing that people need to get through their skulls is this...WE ALLOWED THE GOVERNMENT TO BECOME THIS POWERFUL. WE DID NOTHING. WE ARE AS MUCH TO BLAME AS THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF.

So, do you want to keep complaining, or get off your asses and make a difference?

Originally posted by LiquidMirage
reply to post by TheAssociate

 

Everyday we slip a little bit closer toward civil war...for the exact same reasons we fought the first one. The federal government is in dire need of a major ass kicking!



[edit on 20-7-2009 by LiquidMirage]

I used to laugh at the stories of Mexican Federalies getting into gun battles with local Mexican LE, thinking how absurd and absolutely out-of-control the very idea was in our so-called 'civilized' world. Granted their reasons differ from ours, but every day I see it getting so much closer to that being a reality right here in the US.

Everyone seems to take either one of two postures when such scenarios are brought up... it's either "let 'em come, I'm ready" or "such nonsense would never happen here." While I've wavered between the two (moreso the former these days) I think the real reality for the vast majority of the people here would be one of the deepest, deepest sadness.

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

Sure, its fantastic to share information and hopefully educate others, but, the people that you're reaching here are people who already are aware that the government is corrupt. This accomplishes nothing.

I agree and disagree. Most people reading this are well aware that the federal government is out of control and needs to be put in its place. However, many, many people who may not be aware of that fact stumble upon threads like this through the course of their internet surfing, and will hopefully come out the wiser for it. Publicity is publicity, and I believe this is a just and noble cause to publicize.

It's great to see so many people on fire about this issue. It boils my blood to watch the feds overstep their bounds time and again, and it's wonderful to see I'm not the only one pissed.

Getting back to EvolvedMinistry's reply, I suggest doing whatever you can. Daddyroo posted that he had written letters to the ATF. Good on him! Write, call, and generally harass any and all agencies and elected representatives.

We don't want this to come to an armed revolt (though the option should always be on the table as prescribed by The Declaration of Independence), we want the federal government to peaceably return to its rightful place as moderator of conflicts in state law.

For now, the best way to accomplish that is to get active in the legislative process by letting your elected officials know that they work for you, not the other way around. For now.

Thank you all for the replies, insight, stars and flags.


TA

A follow up to this: the MSM is now taking notice.

Obama Administration Takes Aim At Gun-Rights Revolt

The Obama administration is raising the stakes in a fight over states' rights and firearm ownership by arguing that new pro-gun laws in Montana and Tennessee are invalid.

In the last few months, a grass-roots, federalist revolt against Washington, D.C. has begun to spread through states that are home to politically active gun owners. Montana and Tennessee have enacted state laws saying that federal rules do not apply to firearms manufactured entirely within the state, and similar bills are pending in Texas, Alaska, Minnesota, and South Carolina.

Yet the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, and Explosives now claims that that not only is such a state law invalid, but "because the act conflicts with federal firearms laws and regulations, federal law supersedes the act."

Tennessee's law already has taken effect. The BATF's letter on July 16 to firearms manufacturers and dealers in the state says "federal law requires a license to engage in the business of manufacturing firearms or ammunition, or to deal in firearms, even if the firearms or ammunition remain within the same state."
source

Again, I say that bringing light to these issues anywhere and everywhere does help to create public awareness. I don't pretend to believe that I caused CBS to pay attention to this, but getting the word out does help.


TA

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
The "open letter" is to FFL's in the state not to the state itself or the state legislature or the governor. Looks like the ATF is banking on the fact that the FFL's themselves don't want to lose their licenses or be tossed in jail.

The ATF would have a hard time bullying an entire state but a handful of businessmen are an easy target.

What should happen now is for MT to tell the FFL's it will defend them and to tell the ATF to f off. By "defend" them I don't mean MT will send some lawyers in post arrest. I mean MT should station troops/police/militia to prevent the ATF from getting anywhere near the FFL's.

Would they really even need an FFL now if they live in the states in question? Not if they don't plan on importing or exporting weapons across state lines. The states citizens can now make any gun they want and sell any gun they want as long as its within their borders as far as I know. The state had better come out with its own dealer permits though. The FEDs can pull out all kinds of cards to squeeze the states and its people so the only question is when will the people take action and say enough is enough.

reply to post by Sky watcher

This administration has already been given the word that if they try to push a new assault weapons ban that it will go nowhere. There are 27 states representatives that have said in no uncertain terms that this is a non starter. Should they go ahead with this, ignoring those states you will see states rights law suits and really really nasty arguments in the Congress and Senate! It will trigger more states passing laws to force the hand of Washington and the ATFE into acting. There will be a showdown and I'm not counting on the anti's to be fair about it either!

Zindo


[edit on 7/21/2009 by ZindoDoone]

Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by LiquidMirage

 

Is it really gone so far that the only way to get rid of the facist elements is another war? It seems like that every day more and more but is there anything that can be done other than war?

First of all, I am not advocating the use of violence as a primary vector to bring about the end of tyranny in the United States. I'm merely stating that we are slowly but surely slipping closer to that solution everyday.

Now, with that being said, let me say this:

Never in the history of human civilization has the ballot box ever served as an instrument for the removal of a tyrannical government. That honor has always and will always reside with any instrument that can inflict massive trauma on the human body...most notably the rifle.

There is no reason to think things are going to change this time.



Note: I AM NOT advocating violence. I am merely citing historical precedence.

Originally posted by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by PsykoOps
reply to post by LiquidMirage

 

Is it really gone so far that the only way to get rid of the facist elements is another war? It seems like that every day more and more but is there anything that can be done other than war?

First of all, I am not advocating the use of violence as a primary vector to bring about the end of tyranny in the United States. I'm merely stating that we are slowly but surely slipping closer to that solution everyday.

Now, with that being said, let me say this:

Never in the history of human civilization has the ballot box ever served as an instrument for the removal of a tyrannical government. That honor has always and will always reside with any instrument that can inflict massive trauma on the human body...most notably the rifle.

There is no reason to think things are going to change this time.



Note: I AM NOT advocating violence. I am merely citing historical precedence.

maybe Mass protests and mass walkout's of work ....hitting the corporations and big industry's company's in the $$$ would effect a change of direction.......private industry representatives and lobbyists is mostly what our gov't is made up of (fox's in the henhouse) waiting to go back to the private sector or congress scum dancing to lobbyists tunes....hit em in the $$$ oh wait we're too apathetic to pull this off.......while france can ......thank the american media for that and the corporate control of this that has been mastered

reply to post by cpdaman


I agree that the American public is to apathetic but unrest is growing and has been for several months now. I don't think that walking out on jobs and so forth, as you suggest, will achieve anything but opening up positions for people desperate for a paycheck. We have some real grave problems to contend with. The solution will not be the most desirable one.

reply to post by LiquidMirage

The solution will not be the most desirable one.

I tend to agree, however it's best to exhaust all possibilities first. The game is being played with a stacked deck, and before all is said and done, the least desirable solution may be the only one left to us, but it should be the last. I'm not a strategist, but it just doesn't seem like a good idea to rush headlong into something like that.

That being said, I'm calling quits on that particular topic. The Man's got long arms and eyes all over the place.


TA

[edit on 22-7-2009 by TheAssociate]

[edit on 22-7-2009 by TheAssociate]

The only thing the mother f*****g feds can do is regulate inter-state trade. They cannot regulate what goes on within the borders of the states involving sales.

reply to post by JalZhaunlUss

The only thing the mother f*****g feds can do is regulate inter-state trade. They cannot regulate what goes on within the borders of the states involving sales.

If they have all the guns and all the money, they can do whatever they want!

It is unconstitutional!!! But, once the largest states are bankrupted, the National Guard is overseas, the people are depending on government assistance, healthcare is reserved for those on the government's plan, etc, etc., then the government can literally do whatever it wants!

Originally posted by LiquidMirage
reply to post by cpdaman

 

I agree that the American public is to apathetic but unrest is growing and has been for several months now. I don't think that walking out on jobs and so forth, as you suggest, will achieve anything but opening up positions for people desperate for a paycheck. We have some real grave problems to contend with. The solution will not be the most desirable one.

Things are not quite bad enough yet! We Americans still have excellent lives! At my pool this weekend, BBQ, Beer, my friends and family over, watching the kids play, visitors had flown in from MO, things seemed pretty good! I see the writing on the wall, and we all discussed how quickly things are eroding, but we don't want to give up the good lives we still have.

It won't take much! Some police action, a little worse economy, a forced vaccination, some overzealous census workers, could push the majority over the edge. But just not quite yet! All the pins haven't fallen. Life is still pretty good!

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

What is going on here is that the federal government is attempting to disarm America. Don't you remember the report released by the Department of Homeland Security earlier this year? There are too many potential right wing extremists and potential terrorists residing in this nation. And now a lot of people are starting to stand up and say "no more" the Gadsen flag is becoming a very important symbol amongst the people again and the feds see it and it scares them. We are being over taxed, under paid, we are losing jobs at a record rate, we have very little representation within congress and our "leaders" are striping our Constitutional rights away. I swore and oath to "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC." As I am sure many of you swore. I, for one, mean it and intend of keeping my oath through thick and thin. What about you? What are you willing to do in order to regain freedom and take our nation back to where it was meant to be, A REPUBLIC? I have always seen a lot of talk on here, but who really means it? Who is willing to lay down their life if need be for the freedom of our children and grandchildren. There is a storm coming, history is repeating itself.

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." - Benjamin Franklin

Educate yourselves, your families, your friends, and even the stranger you meet in passing on the street. Mark my words, unless something drastic happens within our federal government and they do a 180 the other direction then we will see ourselves fighting another revolution for freedom from a tyrannical government.

Sic semper tyrannis

you guys are talking about sovereignty way too much
the DHS have their eyes open
they aren't happy with all these concerns about sovereignty

I am already in the watchful eyes of the DHS just because of the fact that I am a gun owning member of the NRA who is also active duty military with combat training and experience. So yeah, I'm not too worried about them.

The tree of liberty is thirsty.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
you guys are talking about sovereignty way too much
the DHS have their eyes open
they aren't happy with all these concerns about sovereignty

And we're supposed to give a damn what these traitorous Bas**rds think of the rights they are pissing on? THEY WORK FOR US DAMNIT NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND WE ARE NOT FREEKIN' SERVANTS!!!!! It's high time they start to remember just what it is that they're job entails, They ain't frickin' royalty!

Zindo

Whats funny is the amount of people that until very recently were very much content with sitting at home with their video games and cell phones and computers and more than happy to give up freedoms so that they could go on with their measly little lives of technology and lazyness. And then, all at once, (and I shed a tear when I saw this happening while I was in Afghanistan) on tax day the American people started standing up en masse and said "no more" with the "tea parties". Then "secede" became a rallying cry among Texans. And "Don't tread on me" because the slogan. To think that our fellow citizens, the same ones that always called us nuts for saying that this was going to happen, are now the ones standing beside us, is amazing.

I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

it was once taught that our fore fathers designed the federal government to help the state governments

to organize for military, and protection of our federal governing body

as free states, we designed state law to allow each state to implement their own laws as they see fit

federal law, is no longer obeying states laws

we see it with the medical marijuana states

we now see it with gun laws

we've seen it with many other things

i wonder when the states and we the people will say enough is enough and put the fed back in its place


i hope we dont wait much longer, for everyday that goes by that the fed remains unchecked we continue to lose rights


whether through legislation, through states secession, or through some form of revolution i hope it happens sooner then later so we can get this country back on track


at one point people all around the world looked to america as the place to escape tyranny

now they realize we're more tyrannical then the next

The state of Texas is already talking seccesion, and if they do so, I am sure that Oklahoma, Louisiana and possibly Arkansas would follow their lead. I would rather have to fight in my lifetime so that my children and grandchildren do not have to fight. And hopefully, they aren't as stupid as we were in letting the government get to the point that it is now. The nation is in a sad state, but we will pull through. When it happens it will be the hardest thing the people of this nation have ever enduered, but our grandchildren will be taught in their history books that we rose up against a tyrannical government and fought to restore the original REPUBLIC and freedoms of this nation. Let me assure you that there is a resistance within the military.

1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people.

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

ALL OF YOU NEED TO READ THIS!!!!!

www.barefootsworld.net...

This is why the Revolutionary war meant nothing, the Constitution means nothing. You have no rights as you are a subject not a Citizen. Wake the hell up.

This website, Barefootsworld, has ALL the information you need. YOU must take the time to read it and research. KNOW your rights, KNOW the flag and what it means and KNOW the law and how to use it to your advantage.

It is just that simple. You will be shocked by what you learn and what you do with it is up to you. There are 100 million of us that do not pay income taxes, legally. There are millions of use that own guns and they are not "registered" because WE KNOW our "property" rights. There are hundreds of thousands of us that DO NOT have "drivers licenses" as we KNOW our property rights and the law.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Here is the website with ALL the law on it. Federal Code and Federal statutes, State statutes and so on. Donate if you can, but USE IT.

Then when you KNOW the LAW you can properly break it without getting into trouble. This ain't rocket science here. We are all BORN with GOD GIVEN RIGHTS, I could care less if you believe in God or the Easter f'in Bunny, but you had better understand that you have INALIENABLE rights.

How simple is that. If we all work at educating our police officers and making them uphold their oath of office, then we can all live in peace knowing that we are responsible individuals. Be responsible, read and learn, turn the damn TV OFF!!!!