Where did god come from? Philisophical Almost.

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Link to the Source.

I've been thinking about this for quite some hours, and wonder if there are any 'theories' for the answer to my question, general question, and cliche question.

"Where did God come from".

When someone looks at me they can say, you come from america, but I tell them i'm an immigrant from canada, then they say, well you come from an eastern country, then I say well i'm not sure of my ancestry, but we can go on, and on and on, trying to find my root of being.

Which either ultimately we meet at either evolution, alien drop offs, creation, and other theories.

I'd like to look at the most commonly assumed one. Creation!

We have been given severely disputable answers by creationist.

But ultimately, and many will proclaim spiritually, we may be leaners on terms of the origin of humans, or species of that matter.

But if there is a Divine being. Yahweh, Brahma vishnu krishna, Allah, Zeus. Whichever is your liking.

Where did they come about from (besides atheist criticism in retorting imagination)?

It seems hard to expect answers from a divine being, god, deity, without asking the question of where it came from?

Would this of been so hard to mention in the testament, or was it deemed something irrelevant?


(I apologize for having this brought about before completion, I was really hoping to get it perfected before published into ats, but that seems to of been stopped only by a accidental button push, on my laptop )

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Republican08]

theory 1: god has no beginning. he has been and will be.
theory 2: god has a god, whom has a god, and the cycle has no beginning. that god has a never ending ancestry.
theory 3: god was an accident of the big bang (ie the alien theory...)
theory 4:man created god, and through belief god exists
theory 5: there is no god

take your pick?

being the alpha involves BEING the beginning. He is the beginning. Was at the beginning yet was the beginning. His ancestry is his own desire.

Originally posted by heyo
being the alpha involves BEING the beginning. He is the beginning. Was at the beginning yet was the beginning. His ancestry is his own desire.

The alpha would surely have a historical recollection more elaborate then, the may I say crude sense he put it into text, assuming yahweh did put it actually into text and he exists.

So logically thinking, out of nowhere, nothing, absence god came from nothing then started creating?

reply to post by Republican08


That is with the assumption "God" wasn't just always in existance without a beginning or a end..... Not saying this is the case just saying...

reply to post by Republican08


My next logical step would be to apply the knowledge and experience of absolutley nothing to the physical, thereby allowing me to create a scenario in which i could reside in this nothing, finally allowing me to create something, in this case, the universe.....philisophical indeed.....

...if i were in God's shoes.

When one bakes a cake, there is the purpose of building the cake. Is there no cake before the ingredients are mixed? There was no cake, yet the purpose for cake existed, and then cake did.

A philisohpical question for you:

Is the word "nothingness" a noun that intimidates a supposed creator of a universe?

Well, as far as the 'God of the Bible' goes... I think in the earlier Hebrew texts there was something called the 'Elohim' that God ('Yahweh') defected from, or something like that.

I think I've read that the 'Elohim' were the gods of the pagan Canaanites...

Edited to add:

Where did the Elohim come from? I dunno...

[edit on 7/20/2009 by eMachine]

Originally posted by eMachine
Well, as far as the 'God of the Bible' goes... I think in the earlier Hebrew texts there was something called the 'Elohim' that God ('Yahweh') defected from, or something like that.

I think I've read that the 'Elohim' were the gods of the pagan Canaanites...

Elohim? Hmm, haven't heard of this, any specific links you would like to share?

reply to post by heyo


There is no cake before, but that would be merely insinuating that god formed (almost evolutionarily) from atoms or strings if you wish

But most assume god is 'above' the 'law' so to speak.

That he.she does not require any law to be.

edit to add a she so feminest don't castrate me

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Republican08]

reply to post by Republican08


Well, I think it might have been in this book my Jewish friend sent to me called "Ehyeh: A Kabbalah for Tomorrow" by Arthur Green, whom I think my friend said he knows personally. I can't find where I read it flipping through though, so I might be mistaken.

Anyway, I found this link for ya, but it might not really explain anything...
www.letusreason.org...

Edited to commit the most heinous sin on ATS:
A Wikipedia link

[edit on 7/20/2009 by eMachine]

the original term for god had no translation and in the original text was not used as a noun would be but rather as a verb.

ugh, i wish i was at home to provide mor info, (i work on DoD computers and while i am able to go here, my google is limited and i have no youtube access or photobucket and straming video is way limited as well as most sites...)

but yeah. for jews anyway, god is a verb.

as far strings coinciding to create an omnipotent being ehell bound on filling the universe with life and what not... well i suppose in a world of infinity, if one was to take all the parts to a watch and put it in a box and shake it for eternity then eventually you would get a watch....

reply to post by Republican08


the word nothing is a noun. It exists. It cannont exist without the defintion of itself, or else one would neve rknow it was nothing.

this is where we fall short, us humans, cause i think you're thinking, as am i, of infinity.

God existed infinitely, then created infinity, and was therefore bound by it, as t was the word of his mouth.
his history is his desire.

reply to post by Republican08


Elohim, gods, the jews got to pick theyr god out of four.
Christians have only one, monotheist..

Originally posted by ChemBreather
reply to post by Republican08

 

Elohim, gods, the jews got to pick theyr god out of four.
Christians have only one, monotheist..

Humbly near polytheist with their form of the trinity, but as dawkins put it, as long as generations are knocking one down at a time, I guess it's getting better.



:Also, wasn't sure if O. Wilde was a robot or not, guess I know she is now.

[edit on 20-7-2009 by Republican08]

reply to post by heyo


I would see 'nothing', as more of an adjective or very best adverb.

I like the word absent though much better.

How can something exist infinitely, we must surely be, at a enormously large amount of time, the near beginning of the infinite, for it seems the abrahamic gods depicted are ultimately flawed.

So his thinking is a bit humanistic almost.

But how would an infinite being become into being without being some sort of oxymoron in and of itself?

From the book I mentioned...

"Eyn Sof ('that which has no end') includes all that ever was, is, will be. All of this is united in a state that does not yet distinguish 'potential' from 'actual', the realizable from the real. It represents a fullness of energy beyond all description. Out of that energy comes forth all that is, a transforming explosion that in each instant makes the journey from Being to beings, from the infinite mystery of Y-H-W-H to the infinite realities of existence.

Why does that explosion take place? Why did, or does, Being emerge from the 'black hole' that precedes existence? To answer such a question would be to say more about Eyn Sof than we can. 'Will' and 'desire' are concepts far too human for us to project onto the 'face' of a faceless mystery. Perhaps 'anticipation' is a slightly more neutral term. The first stirring within the One that leads toward the existence of the many is the sense of time, a drawing forth of the future from within the timelessness of Being. As the potential examines itself (and how could Eyn Sof not be self-reflexive?) and realizes its own potency, the thought emerges of a future in which that potential might be realized."

- Arthur Green (Ehyeh:A Kabbalah for Tomorrow)

There's lots more about "creation" that I'm not going to keep typing by hand, but that's a Kabbalist Jew understanding for ya I guess.

(I'm neither Jewish nor Kabbalist and have no idea how this all came to be.)

[edit on 7/20/2009 by eMachine]

I've asked this alot, i have even come up with an answer for athiest spiritualists but i'll get to that in a moment...

Mostly i hear that god doesn't need a creator, which is a poor copout in my mind or that he has always exsisted - which then leads to the fact that if god could always exist so could all matter and energy thus the athiest scientist continual cycle of life in which all matter drifts, complixifys and then crunches back together is just as if not more likely - after all billions of trillions of years in which life wasn't able to exist no one was there to see it fail, hence when we do manage to come into existence it looks really special for us.

To the athiest spiritual movement who believe that a higher level of existence does exist, a universal truth in a spiritual realm which is so complex as to almost or maybe even actually being self aware - however to call this 'god' the same as the theist gods would be totally wrong, he certainly didn't make any stone tablets or part any waters (note, in parting waters i take reference to many of the western religions traditions also such as those expressed in The Vedas) - he may be somewhat of a creator god but certainly not an interfearing god.

Here goes, at the start of everything was nothing - in nothing only one tiny formless thing can exist, the possibility that somethng will oneday exist. That tiny seed existing nowhere held in it the possibility of all things - the undeniable rules of life, two plus two equals four, etc. Starting from 'what if something did exist' quickly the metaphysical world started to unfold - what if this energy was solid, what if it attracted each other, etc, etc, etc untill what if someone could direct their own path - a million more folds of logic and somewhere in the near infinate mesh comes a spot so tiny and yet so perfect that the possibility of US arises. Yet more folds and here we are able to ask and answer this very question.

We exist in the imagination of nothing, our existence proves something can exist enough to ask weather we exist and so we know also that all things must exist along side us - some of 'gods mind' must exist unaware of the rest for the question 'what if they could ask but didn't know' must be answered. As must the question what if someone knew it all, how would they feel? what would they do?

so maybe somewhere someone can see us, does care - maybe we are but his puppets - well. he is made of the same stuff as us, the ying to our yang. -he that can see but can't touch must have three brothers, he that can see and touch, he that can't see but can touch and he that can't see nor touch - this is the four sided head of god, which is our god? well i guess we must be stuck in the camp that can ask but will never know...

well thats one view point, thought you might be interested in hearing it.

No one knows. It's just that simple and if anyone comes up with an answer it's really just a guess or the use of ones imagination.

Originally posted by Republican08
Which either ultimately we meet at either evolution, alien drop offs, creation, and other theories.

I'd like to look at the most commonly assumed one. Creation!

We have been given severely disputable answers by creationist.

But ultimately, and many will proclaim spiritually, we may be leaners on terms of the origin of humans, or species of that matter.

But if there is a Divine being. Yahweh, Brahma vishnu krishna, Allah, Zeus. Whichever is your liking.

I'll answer your questions. But I think before you ask where something came from, you need to first understand what it is, and is not. And to be completely honest, before you can even understand that, you must first understand exactly who/what you actually are. If you do not have these understandings, then you will likely not understand the rest.

First, what you must realize is that the universe/creation is just a program. Does these mean god has a PC? Not exactly. The laws of the universe are just logic. Action and reaction. No free will, no choice it just does as the logic has dictated.

In the beginning, there was only the "word". This is true of all programs. They start out as words/logic. Based on logic only, does forums like these are other things come to be. The universe is based on logic and is a program.

The father is basically the consciousness of all things. He is the one who created the logic of the program etc. The observer. It is that bit within you that gives you those abilities as well. To understand, to reason, to feel, to observe and to know what it means to be.

So what is of the flesh is flesh, and what is of the spirit is spirit. 2 domains/realms. The flesh comes from the dust of the earth. The flesh is part of the program.

After creation is made, the "spirit of the Lord" enters into the program and brings it to life. And it is that spirit within you that gives you that "life". So, to really understand things, you need to find out what is really "you", to find and understand that spirit, then you can start to grasp the father.

Start up a video game, it's just a bunch of numbers/logic and patterns going on. The AI doesn't know it's AI, it's just following the patterns like a clock does. It doesn't come to life until consciousness observes it. Until you start playing, then choices can be made and the game begins. Same principle.

This is why it is said you are hated because you are not of this world. Things of this world are the program. Action and reaction, logic and so forth. A rocket has no free will, is of this world and those who seek power love them some rockets. Introduce the correct action, get the reaction you want. That equals power and control. But because you have the father within you and are not of the program, you can not be controlled so easily, and thus you are hated for it by those who seek power. So the manipulation of the world is basically to turn people into action/reaction robots where they can introduce the actions they want, to bring about the reactions in the people. Create the problem, offer the solution etc.

Where did they come about from (besides atheist criticism in retorting imagination)?

From those who started to realize what it meant to be conscious. They started to question reality, they could see the difference, and they asked questions. Those deep questions that run through the mind at night. From the very question you ask yourself - what is it for, what does it mean, and why am I able to ponder such questions in the first place.

It seems hard to expect answers from a divine being, god, deity, without asking the question of where it came from?

Looking for god in creation itself is like trying to find Bill Gates inside your Windows OS. He isn't "out there", he is "within you". Know thyself. The answers will come if you seek, but you ask men and others for your answers and seek their approval on yours. In doing so, you look for what you can accept, rather than what you can understand. And the path to the father is guided by understanding and wisdom, not by acceptance. Atheists and Christians(other religions too) alike accept the same things, that is all that is wanted. Especially since you can plot them against each other and make them think if they can just get rid of them all will be good(it won't).

It's not really something someone can tell you(accept). It's an understanding.

Would this of been so hard to mention in the testament, or was it deemed something irrelevant?

You don't teach a 5 year old quantum physics. Understanding and intelligence has a range or levels. In order for humans to recognize something as intelligence, it has to be within our range of understanding. You could come across something extremely intelligent, and it wouldn't be recognizable as intelligent.

These things are expressed in the bible, they just aren't in modern terms/understanding so it's not easy to see. Imagine going back in time that far back and trying to explain what a computer is, or how words/logic can create things - even worlds/universes(we call them virtual worlds). Even in how you acted, they might think you are mentally retarded.

If you're a fan of evolution, then it really is like trying to teach physics to a monkey. You give them the understanding they can handle for the time, in a way they can understand it. Show someone who lived 200 years ago an iphone and explain it to them how it works.

reply to post by Republican08


If you want to know where God comes from. You first have to know what God is.

But to know what God is you first have to accept that God is just a name of A SOURCE.

What is a name is the first question you should ask your self. Pluto is just a name but it can be the name of a Dog and a planet as well. Get it.

The name God is not important but the source is.