Who observed us into existence?

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Time itself would not be a dimension or a force. You are right in saying that it is something that just happens. But the driving force behind what makes time move (forward OR backward) is the mystery. We may very well be the ones who dictate what time is and how it moves, simply by setting the standard for what time is supposed to be within our limited 3 dimensional minds. But nonetheless, artificial or not, it IS there.

reply to post by Mr. Toodles


Perhaps it has no driving force. And I think you are misunderstanding Omega's point. Or I am.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I understand exactly what Omega is trying to say. I just happen to disagree a little bit. Not a big deal. I agree with alot of what Omega has said but time is something that I have studied in and out for many years and have come to a close but slightly different conclusion as to what it really is. Although to this day, I still cannot define exactly WHY it is there. No matter how miniscule or unimportant it really is.

reply to post by Mr. Toodles


Consider this - that in a non-local (everywhere now) holographic universe, grounded in the same implicate order (Tao), the human being, as the most recent or newest sentient on the scene (100,000-1,000,000,000 years) may at some level, be the most evolved, that is if evolution is also a non-local phenomenon ie: the whole universe is an open system with instantaneous information sharing right across the entire spectrum of the implicate/explicate order..?

So if we want to talk about evolution in the context of time and universal history, that's what you end up with, given the time spans involved, along with the proven FACT that everyting is one right across the board.

So it's no wonder then if advanced aliens are coming snooping around, poking, prodding, taking samples etc.

But I am convinced that time bound consciousness is the root and source of the insanity of the egoic structure of the world - note the responses to that theory of no time but now where the primary concern involved money, survival and the desire for something better than what we have.

In the human mind, desire (as the root of all suffering) and time are inextriably linked together.

reply to post by OmegaPoint


But the fact that you say time and desire is the reason for human suffering is saying that time does in fact exist. Whether miniscule or large, it DOES exist. You can't deny it because you also said that all consciousness is linked or in some form, the same as the universal consciousness. If OUR consciousness thought of the idea of time, then so did the universal consciousness. it was that very consciousness which observed us into existence and which is STILL observing time as an intricate part of our system. US.

Whether it was intended or not, humans did invent time. That much I will admit to. But it's existence cannot be denied any more than the idea of consciousness itself because it was that consciousness that designed time.

reply to post by Mr. Toodles


In a wholistic sense ie: Bell's Theorem, no, it is not there. Only when you take a piece or a part and isolate it from the whole, is there anything like time in terms of causation. When everyting is acausally connected, as it really IS, time is not real, not in the grand scheme of things.

What's interesting however, is if you can get to the end of it, and fullly into the now, there is still continuity, or when nothing is distinquished or differentiated, there is still continuity. Therefore, nothing and something, being and non-being, time and no-time, these thigns are two sides of the same coin, and that's eternal, timeless and spaceless, and there is one thing which shares those characteristics and is at the root and foundation of all physical and chemical processes - LIGHT.

From the perspective of a single photon of light, there is no time and no causation.

And so everything may be a manifestation of light, and matter a type of crystalized or frozen light.

reply to post by Mr. Toodles

I suspect that "time" if it exists at all, is about to change, from a prison keeper (time bound consciousness) to a creative tool (shaping the future from the present only), and that I liken to the end of time and the world as we know it or the end of history as in a past which we think of as real and almost 100% determinate of the present, where the present is thought of as being completely conditioned by the past. When we awaken from the illusion, then we will see that time is only meaningful or helpful as a projection from the present to the future, never from past to future while bypassing the present.

In fact, one could think of the present, as an unshakable eternal rock or foundation upon which to build a house that cannot be shaken when the winds blow and the rain beats against it. And to live out of that space, is also to know the oneness of being, and have access to the wisdom of the ages. It's all here now, and there is nothing new under the suns.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by OmegaPoint]

reply to post by OmegaPoint


Yes. Finally someone who shares the same viewpoint as me in terms of the projected "end of time".

reply to post by Mr. Toodles


Cool!

Now, as to how to make things "better" than they were, or are, acceptance is the key, in other words to become the end of resistence and the end of suffering within own selves first and foremost, without forever railing against the evils without, and therein BE the very change we are seeking in the world, which must involve the end of suffering, and liberation for one and all.

No matter how much a person may campaign against something, this is the only way, and that is the true genious of Buddha's teaching (not to put Jesus down). In Jesus' words, this would mean being "the peacemaker" who is called the son of the most high.

And when you really look at things like the 9/11 conspiracy (which is what it was), these things, and Iraq and all the rest, all the "crisis" these are really veiled attempts to project the "status quo" in one way or another and somehow avoid the end of history and the end of a certain type of egoic power structure rooted in fear and selfishness and insecurity (we'll protect from from death).

Whereas what I'm driving at here is the END, not only of past time and history and the "world as we know it" but the end of all fear, including the fear of death, all RIGHT NOW.

How can you govern the mystic? You can't. It requires a new type of governance which is a non-governance.

Obama can't help us, nobody can, and we don't even need help. A person can live very simply and still be perfectly happy.

My .02 cents:

Nothing observed anything into being. Something always was. Nothing began and nothing ends.

reply to post by Mr. Toodles

That's very insightful!

What what we can do we can also undo and redo, starting with you and me, but there are now MILLIONS of people just beginning to wake up to these new/old realities, many still bound in some egoic thought patterns, including a Buddhist master I saw recently, but that ego is starting to unravel, and is utterly foolish really.

I'm a fool for pretending I can help teach this stuff in this forum, to be honest, but some of us have to risk it, to be helpful to others.

It's ok to be insane, to be in sane or in sanity again.

Some among us are starting to bust out of the old mold, I can feel it typing right now.

reply to post by Gigatronix


Then I look forward to having this conversation with you again some day in the indefinite future..!

I believe in the same thing I guess but I call it the eternally recurrent progressive now, where now IS forever and must be, if what you just said is true. One now bracketed by two eternities means an eternal now.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last."

It's good to be getting to the end of the Bible, so we won't have to keep reading the damn thing over and over again in Sunday school!

reply to post by OmegaPoint


It's cool that we have our own ideas and theories, that's how it should be. Just remember not to get too confident, and be mindful that now is all we have, don't spend too much time trying to quantify everything at the expense of more relevant endeavours.

I just need to know that one other person is going to be joining me as we go over the waterfall at the end of history, and I can see that I'm not alone, so you're right, it's ok now to let go and go with the flow..

I very much plan on an easy transition when the end of time comes. It isn't that hard to comprehend if some people would just take the time to really think about all this stuff. Then again, who am I to say what others should do? Cause in the grand scheme of things, I can never even prove if any one else is real or if I am just floating on a giant energy wave designed to look and feel like matter.

reply to post by Mr. Toodles


I think you're the not real one. Sorry just a moment of silliness.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


We're all real.

What isn't?

reply to post by Gigatronix


No sir. I think you are a figment of my imagination.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Gigatronix

 

No sir. I think you are a figment of my imagination.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Obviously I disagree!Im reminded of Vanilla Sky, with kurt russels face as he tries to come up with his kids names! This cannot be the future of entertainment!

reply to post by Gigatronix


You would. My imagination is trying to trick me. But I am smarter than it!