Dear Skeptics...

every skeptic is a believer ...

the problem is that, they believe in huge conspiracies behind the videos / accounts and ...


not every account video is a conspiracy ... well, at least I hope for ahhaha

Believing in something which didn't actually occur happens more often then you might think. For instance, sociopaths can even pass lie detector tests simply because they've embedded in their minds how certain events played out, enough to the point where they actually believe these things when in reality they are lying.

The same thing goes for schizophrenics. If they believe they are jesus christ, they will do just that. So I don't see why the possibility of making yourself believe something happened, when it really didn't, is something which should be ruled out completely.

The reason why I say this is because I actually have an uncle who believes he -is- Jesus Christ. And he's been in a maximum security mental institution for over 20 years.

We have documented proof of people making themselves believe things which are not true. This is why it's really hard to 100% believe the stories of experiencers. It also doesn't help that...within the past 40-50 years of people coming forward with their experiences, tapes, and photos...that many of them turned out to be hoaxes.

As for where a skeptic should draw the line..Well, I don't know where to go with that. If someone posts on ATS, it's there for everyone to read and reply to. As for how the communication plays out, it's much like talking :\

For instance, I was at work and talking to a friend who likes to do camping at this one place I went to last year. I told him while I was there I had encountered a rattlesnake in this park. He didn't believe me and said there were no rattlesnakes at the park. So, I looked up information online for the park info and linked it to him over yahoo. And surely enough I was right, the park does have a rattlesnake population.

I didn't see the rattlesnake, wasn't bitten by the snake, or anything of that sort. All which happened was the fact that I heard it. No photos, no video recordings, nothing. But I was able to provide information to backed up my story, thus making it believable.

So if anyone is able to provide proof for their stories, then please provide it. If you give it, it's up to the individual to believe. But if they choose not to believe after being shown it, then there is nothing more you can do. And that is where the line is drawn, I think.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by CidCaldensfey]

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex There are times when I will feel or even see a malevolent presence in the room.

And can you be absolutely sure that presence wasn't in the room?

Absolutely, yes. It is all in my mind, a malfunction in the chemical processes that regulate my body dreaming REM sleep.

And to be certain, "malevolent presence" is a catch-all phrase to describe "the threat," sometimes I think it is a burglar, sometimes a hag, but most often I realize its a dream and go back to sleep.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by DoomsdayRex]

I may know it's a chemical reaction when it happens to me, and you may know it's a chemical reaction when it happens to you, but I think it's fair to say not everyone understands chemistry that well and therefore can't easily understand how a chemical reaction and a real event can seem so similar.

I think that most of the abduction reports are things people really think happened but are chemical reactions, but not all.

There are some interesting cases like the Travis Walton incident where there are corroborating witnesses to at least part of the events, which convinces me that what happened was not a sleep paralysis chemical reaction. So I agree with your point, it does help to have other witnesses when the event happens to corroborate whether or not they saw the same thing you did.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


travis walton is a very special case - and it is definitely solid. he went missing for days IIRC, and yeah there were several other witnesses. almost all other abduction cases are a single witness describing something that happened while they were in bed. it is very rare to find a case like his.

whenever an abduction account begins with the abductee being in bed, previously asleep, etc, red flags most certainly go up.

[edit on 21-7-2009 by JScytale]

Originally posted by ogbert


Now, why would someone like to pick on somebody because they can not prove an alien abduction? Maybe this is an ego thing. Makes em feel smart. They get a little ego kick out of starting trouble. But, then again, maybe they are grounding their own beleif system. Why do they even jump in the thread? Sort of like the jocks pickin on the nerds in high school. HA!

Sigh,

Debunkers debunk things because they feel obligated to, so not every naive people start believing whatever they hear. They are enough sects out there without adding more fools to them.

We do it so you stop telling stupid things to your kids and neighbors. Why do i jump in a thread? Because it annoys me to read non-sense and hear-say.

People HAVE to learn how to present a case first hand. Like date, time, weather condition, exact location, alcohol or drugs involved, number of witness, etc.

As for the abduction by aliens thing, it doesn't stand up to rigorous examination. My personal theory is this is linked with sleep patterns we go thru especially r.e.m. It's a bit like sleep paralysis where people try to move but they can't and think there's a witch or a demon sitting on them or pressing them against their bed. Of course it isn't occurring for real, even tho when these people wake up they're completely confused as what just happened. Why it does that exactly during sleep remains partly a mystery. (some explanations have been given) the aliens or ghosts are variants. It does feel real this can't be denied.

There's more to be said on the topic but i'm not writing a book here...

Drugs can make the brain hallucinate things that seem totally real for a person, but we know so little about the brain, it's probably possible for the brain to create hallucinations without any drugs involved.



[edit on 21-7-2009 by Conan The Usurper]

reply to post by mellisamouse


There are three main types of UFO believers, ufologists, whatever....


PSEUDOSKEPTICS- They are skeptical only because they refuse to believe in ET life for reasons other than evidence.

Neutral Field

- This is where many and YOU and I should be. People in this range are skeptical UNTIL evidence points ONE WAY the other.

PSEUDOBELEIVERS- People in this range believe BLINDLY in ANYTHING UFO/ALIEN RELATED, regardless how ridiculous or incredulous to the facts. This is equally as bad for ufology as the other end of the "UFO Spectrum", Pseudoskepticism.


So I hope maybe that was a short and explanatory answer to your question.



[edit on 7/21/2009 by jkrog08]