Star Trek and Answers

A little story (I take no credit, having forgotten who told me this, but for the storytelling, which is mine):

A man from the early 21st century found himself transported by some time anomaly into the 24th century Star Trek universe. He is welcomed there and given a large house. He is shown the operation of the replicator and shortly left to his own devices. Gleefully he approached the replicator and began having it create gold dubloons. Soon, he has a room full of them. A room full of gold, stacked and toppled sat there, delivered from the replicator and accumulated in the room by the house robots. He stood, looking at the dream he had held since a boy.

He moves on to fill a room with mink, and other precious furs fashioned into lovely coats and other accessories. He looks over these amassed riches with glee, thinking of all the women he could give them to in return for favors.

In the next room he poured gems - rubies the size of fists, diamonds, sapphires, and emeralds, all so brilliant. His heart sang to see this pile that stood higher than he. What he could get people to do with all THIS... Oh, he sang with happiness in his heart.

But then... He got to thinking.

With all he wanted provided moment to moment, why would HE take any of this from another, unless there was some meaning placed on the actual object presented? And he looked at all this wealth he had placed around him and laughed. He instructed his robots to put all the creations back into the realm of probability from whence it came, and, asking for a catalog of what was available to wear, wanting to blend in, at least visually, and got himself ready to go out to see what was out there, realizing that what mattered was not these physical things, but how one chose to behave.

And he had to deal only with the people he built a good rapport with. All others were irrelevant. And in that rapport, Love would flourish.
__________________

Now you may say, what's that got to do with global meltdown, something that takes place hundreds of years in the "future" in a fantasy universe?

Here's some things to consider:

We are at a place Now where we can create the moneyless society Roddenberry brought, and though our time traveler went hundreds of years in the future, the story does not say when things changed from this money-driven scarcity paradigm to an abundance paradigm.

The reason I bring you this story is because, in my efforts to bring the abundance paradigm to as many as I can, as an answer to the NWO, the aliens, and any others who would control us through money, I have encountered the objection that "greed" would be the downfall. I have encountered the objection that if money went away, "something else will take its place."

So the point of my thread here is to show the absurdity of these objections, and to again invite those who may be unaware of the tool I offer to help others see and understand not only the abundance paradigm, but how we can get there.

The tool is my book. I offer it freely, and am honored by all who choose to read it.

Thank you to those who do, and especially to those who spread the paradigm.

BOOK: files.abovetopsecret.com...

Sounds a nice place.

Now who do I bribe to get that mansion on top of the hill for myself?

And where do I find the black-market contact for eternal youth serum?

Money may mean nothing to these people, but there are always unsavoury desires that can be catered to.

reply to post by Kailassa


Yo must be a FERENGI!

xs102.xs.to...

Originally posted by Amaterasu
He looks over these amassed riches with glee, thinking of all the women he could give them to in return for favors.

I can tell this is written by a woman.

I've heard that Obama is a Star Trek fan. I wonder if he was also a Star Wars fan and wants to blend these two together.

If we are to follow Gene (Wesley)Roddenberry with his books, than what exactly is going to happen next as if scripted?

Roddenberry was a genius. I hope he was right and because of his ideas we do veer towards the future he envisaged. It's already starting in a way, the new space progam is called Project Constellation and Mike Okuda even designed the motifs for the Orion spacecraft and the relevant uniforms. I do wonder though what event would bring us, as a planet, to eradicate money from our lives. Cataclysm in some form or other, or maybe a huge technological advance, like the replicator, although I think that will still have it's limits.

Great post. Another refreshing thread not indicative of impending doom.

I noticed that your story was written in a kind of biblical way, sentences beginning with "And" etc, was that intentional?

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Kailassa

 

Yo must be a FERENGI!

Deep down, everyone's a Ferengi.
(Rule of acquisition 284)

But thank you for the complement.
You may caress my lobes,
just stay away from my latinum.

I agree that Roddenberry was both a genius and a visionary. However, I am one of those people who would have never wanted to be in his Universe (although I am a Star Trek fan, don't get me wrong, I just wouldn't want to live there).

I long for Replicators. I long for a moneyless society where all one's base needs are freely provided. I long for a galaxy where people serve to benefit the whole, realizing that they benefit too as individuals by fulfilling their role within that whole.

However, I am an individualist first and foremost.

That is probably the reason I always personally related to Ensign Ro Laren more than I did any other Star Trek character.

I don't do well with other people's rules. I would never wear a uniform without severe protest. If forced to wear a uniform I would rip it to shreds and fasten it back together with safety pins. I would wear my hair long and I would wear thick black eye-liner in protest of regulations. I would chain smoke Kreteks on my breaks, blowing smoke out some Aft porthole. And most of all, I would be a royal pain in the derriere to every commanding officer, even to the ones that actually did gain my respect. However, I would still excel at my job and be the best at it, taking pride in doing what I do.

In a way, I think Joss Whedon's view of the future in Firefly is more realistic for this reason. Not everyone would fit in with a United Federation of Planets and a utopian futuristic society. There are some that would refuse to live by other people's rules, and would rather suffer a life of poverty and tribulation, even at the risk of arrest and incarceration for life, just to be free to be themselves and live by their own rules.

And that is where this all ties in with the OPs post.

There are some things that are universal to the Human Condition. Any Utopian society, no matter how beautiful and wonderful it may be, cannot realistically be sustained so long as it does not cater to these universal human conditions.

Unfortunately Greed is one of those universal human conditions. Although many of us who are more enlightened can willfully and willingly chose to overcome it, it is still always there. There are also those people who would never willfully or willingly chose to overcome their own greed. For any society to persist, it cannot be based on the lack of greed, but have to acknowledge it and cater to it, even if it is minimized. Love may be another universal human condition, but not everyone expresses that love in the same ways. Matter of fact, many people express their love with their greed, or find love in their greed.

Noble ideals are all well and good, but the truly wise allow for everyone to find their own nobility in the lesser of places, even in degradation and sin. Even the Christian Bible is full of sinners who find nobility and thereby gain redemption.

Originally posted by Kailassa
Sounds a nice place.

Now who do I bribe to get that mansion on top of the hill for myself?

And where do I find the black-market contact for eternal youth serum?

Money may mean nothing to these people, but there are always unsavoury desires that can be catered to.

Conceivably so... But I tell you what, read my book, and if you have further questions, ask away, eh?

Thanks!

Originally posted by YourForever

Originally posted by Amaterasu
He looks over these amassed riches with glee, thinking of all the women he could give them to in return for favors.

I can tell this is written by a woman.

Eh. Your point?

Second line.

Originally posted by aleon1018
I've heard that Obama is a Star Trek fan. I wonder if he was also a Star Wars fan and wants to blend these two together.

If we are to follow Gene (Wesley)Roddenberry with his books, than what exactly is going to happen next as if scripted?

Actually, I would rather set us free as a species and see where it DOES lead. Nothing will be "scripted.

Originally posted by Sendran
I do wonder though what event would bring us, as a planet, to eradicate money from our lives. Cataclysm in some form or other, or maybe a huge technological advance, like the replicator, although I think that will still have it's limits.

We don't need the replicator to make these changes now.

Read the book, and pass on the paradigm, and we can do it with what we have now (as I demonstrated in my book). No, I'm not out here promoting my book, but the ideas within.

What it will take to get us going in that direction is enough of us aware that we can do this now. And that means the best action one could take is passing the paradigm along.

Great post. Another refreshing thread not indicative of impending doom.

[smile] Thank you. We will be in doom if we don't spread the word... This is my solution to all the issues we see now.

I noticed that your story was written in a kind of biblical way, sentences beginning with "And" etc, was that intentional?

Not as such... It sprang from me virtually full-formed. And likely, that is my style of writing. (Hey! I did it just there

Originally posted by fraterormus
I don't do well with other people's rules. I would never wear a uniform without severe protest.

If you read my book...you will see that the only "rules" are the three Laws. (Did you ever notice that nothing is called a "law?" Everything is called a declaration, or an act, or a decree, or a regulation, or a statute, or an edict, and so on. The three true Laws are: Harm no one willingly, take or damage no one's property if it is not yours, and do not willingly decieve or defraud.) PERFECT for individual expression. No uniforms. No hierarchy. No forced anything.

In a way, I think Joss Whedon's view of the future in Firefly is more realistic for this reason. Not everyone would fit in with a United Federation of Planets and a utopian futuristic society. There are some that would refuse to live by other people's rules, and would rather suffer a life of poverty and tribulation, even at the risk of arrest and incarceration for life, just to be free to be themselves and live by their own rules.

In the abundance paradigm, everyone would fit in where they wanted to - or they could go off and be a hermit. All could live with whatever level of tech that they wanted to. Some might go into the back woods and live. Some might have houses in the sky (Gary McKinnon found antigrav in Black Ops when he hacked in...). The list is endless...

There are some things that are universal to the Human Condition. Any Utopian society, no matter how beautiful and wonderful it may be, cannot realistically be sustained so long as it does not cater to these universal human conditions.

Unfortunately Greed is one of those universal human conditions.

[I scratch my head] Greed is a manifestation from a scarcity paradigm. Did you read my OP? In abundance, greed is meaningless. So what if one person hoards? There is plenty for all to hoard! But why would one want to hoard? If it is all available, virtually on demand, why bother?

Although many of us who are more enlightened can willfully and willingly chose to overcome it, it is still always there.

Greed is a function of a fear that one might not get enough, or get one's "share," or a desire to be the one who survives if supply breaks down. What other reason could there be to be greedy?

All these fears fall away in abundance.

There are also those people who would never willfully or willingly chose to overcome their own greed.

I really am beginning to think you did not read my OP in full.... It will not be a matter of "choosing not to be greedy..." It will be a matter of greed serving no function for anyone.

For any society to persist, it cannot be based on the lack of greed, but have to acknowledge it and cater to it, even if it is minimized.

LOL! That's EXACTLY what the abundance paradigm does. I mean, in a sence, at any rate. It caters to the desires of ALL, and so, in essence, greed is satisfied, fully and completely.

Love may be another universal human condition, but not everyone expresses that love in the same ways. Matter of fact, many people express their love with their greed, or find love in their greed.

I never defined Love in any specific manifestations. How the love is expressed is up to the individuals. And if you see any connection between Love and greed... [shrug] I don't know what to say! Yes, there are those who love money, thus the evil in the world, as they sell out their fellow Beings for the worthless stuff. But that is NOT Love (with a capital "L"). Love is Being to Being.

Noble ideals are all well and good, but the truly wise allow for everyone to find their own nobility in the lesser of places, even in degradation and sin. Even the Christian Bible is full of sinners who find nobility and thereby gain redemption.

What's wrong with all having the opportunity to follow their bliss? Should we keep ourselves slaves needlessly so some can find their nobility in degradation? Really???

My ideas are not "noble." They are merely tools to bring a noble end to this hell being wrought by NWO and others here Now. Would you say that the killing of 6.5 billion of us, and the outright enslavement of the rest is not worth the effort to find a solution - because nobility can be found (somehow) in that scenario?

I recommend reading my book to get a good view.

Hilarious:

I love the idea of Rodenberry's perfect society. It's very Utopian in it's concept and, as such, something that the majority of humanity couldn't handle. The problem with getting to that point is that you will have those people who choose to maintain the current paradigm. If, as you say, everyone can choose their own path then there will be those who choose greed. Does it make sense in a society where everything is plentiful? No. But people don't always make sense. There will be those who choose the mansion on the hill with rooms full of gold just because they can.

Unfortunately, the problem really isn't with money, though. The problem is with power. There are people in this world who could care less about money, they want control of their fellows. They crave the ability to impose their will on the masses, as it were. These are the people who pose the greatest threat to any society no matter what the paradigm. They are less Ferengi and more Cardassian.

reply to post by Amaterasu


I tell you what.....when I see you on the news with a working replicator that taps into "free" energy then I will believe that socialism and communism work. Until then, it's a silly pipe dream and I'm SICK of it being shoved down our throat here lately.

There is a REASON why we fought these two things some 60 years ago in WW2.

Originally posted by soontide
I love the idea of Rodenberry's perfect society. It's very Utopian in it's concept and, as such, something that the majority of humanity couldn't handle. The problem with getting to that point is that you will have those people who choose to maintain the current paradigm.

Surely virtually all of us areeither slaves or toadies. Only the very few at the top are something else. Being a slave, one would welcome freedom. And being a toadie, one would also welcome freedom from having to say, "What's next, boss?" Sure, there will be some who cannot grasp the freedom they will have and will fight... But as time moves on, they will become the dwindling minority.

If, as you say, everyone can choose their own path then there will be those who choose greed.

How does greed manifest in abundance? I think I showed in my tale in the OP that in abundance, "greed" has no meaning. If you can illustrate how "greed" would manifest where everyone may have all they want...I would appreciate it.

Does it make sense in a society where everything is plentiful? No. But people don't always make sense. There will be those who choose the mansion on the hill with rooms full of gold just because they can.

And so? So what if they do? It's no drain on others. Let 'em have at it if that is their bliss.

Unfortunately, the problem really isn't with money, though. The problem is with power. There are people in this world who could care less about money, they want control of their fellows. They crave the ability to impose their will on the masses, as it were. These are the people who pose the greatest threat to any society no matter what the paradigm. They are less Ferengi and more Cardassian.

Ah, but if there is no material thing one can use to subjugate others... How will they derive power over others except as others willingly offer themselves? And if they willingly offer themselves, that is within their freedom to do so. They aren't manipulated or forced into it.

Sure, some may try to control others - but in abundance, others can merely walk away and not associate with those who would try and control them. In abundance, one has the choice to associate only with those one likes or loves. Any who try to control others have only their behavior as a tool...

Originally posted by bismarcksea
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

I tell you what.....when I see you on the news with a working replicator that taps into "free" energy then I will believe that socialism and communism work. Until then, it's a silly pipe dream and I'm SICK of it being shoved down our throat here lately.

There is a REASON why we fought these two things some 60 years ago in WW2.

I tell you what, when you can see that both communism and socialism are scarcity paradigms, and that abundance for all is neither... And if you read my book... Then we'll discuss this, eh?

There is a REASON they keep us from abundance: it takes away control/power over masses (unlike communism and socialism).