Questions on ET, SETI and NASA

Originally posted by yeti101

But to expect any ET to use radio is nuts.

why? do you think humans are so special we are the only ones to discover radio/radar?

What purpose would radio serve? Granted, i am assuming that somehow their craft are FTL in some manner. So they are using a mode of communication that they are able to outrun? It would be quicker to just deliver the communication in person.

I am not saying "impossible". I am saying "grossly improbable".

reply to post by zorgon

My question [#2] is...

What exactly IS NASA's 'current policy' on "people coming in contact with extra-terrestrials or their vehicles."

And where is it written?

Oh yeah, Dr. Z, - I've been looking for this one myself for years...

In fact, allow me to ruminate on your question a bit:

Let's accept that even with all of their detractors and erroneous ways, NASA has indeed assembled quite a cadre of sharp minds - scientists, administrators, military men, lawyers, engineers, policy makers - etc.

Let's also accept that as a government bureaucracy (*cough* - I mean, government "agency"), they have thought of and documented every possible scenario and potential variable that may confront their operations in space.

As any military man will tell you, one must never enter a program or operation unless and until a thorough requirements analysis assessment is made to determine proper plans of action to deal with every possible contingency.

For one thing, you do not want to send billions of dollars of investment in man and machine into space unless you've considered how you would respond and react to ANY and EVERY potential encounter, finding, or engagement. Failure to do so would be illogical, irresponsible, and possibly disastrous.

Thus, the question begs: What is the OFFICIAL policy of NASA (and all similar international space agencies, for that matter) should their astronauts (or mechanical agents) encounter something "unexpected" while on their adventures?

For example, we‘ve all heard about the supposed code-speak employed by some astronauts during the Apollo missions (e.g.,”… there is a “Santa Claus”). Rumors of Armstrong making remarks on the surface of the moon (not fully substantiated), Aldrin while enroute to the moon, and numerous others before and since commenting on “UFOs” and “Alien Objects”, etc. and captured in the static of voice transmissions notwithstanding, exactly WHAT is the policy?

Surely, NASA has advised their astronauts, despite their denials, that if they should encounter something, however unlikely, they are instructed to… what?

I don’t believe for one second that NASA would spend billions and send astronauts and instruments to the moon and beyond and have ABSOLUTELY NO PLAN to deal with anomalous encounters such as this.

Consider this: Wouldn’t YOU want to know what you’re supposed to do in case you encounter something, well, “other-worldly” in space or on the surface of a celestial body somewhere? What if you spot a relic or artifact on the moon’s surface that obviously is NOT ours? Forget ET for a minute. How do you deal with such a finding? How do you report it? How do you document it? You mean to tell me we have NO policy for reporting back a finding of such significance?

How about UFOs? What if you’re in orbit around the moon or enroute and you encounter an unmistakable self-propelled, intelligently-controlled craft zig-zagging past, or, better yet, pulling up alongside you?

Now, aside from the interesting, but inconclusive efforts of exopolitics guru Dr. Salla and his pals, and the admittedly questionable tactics of Greer, the pontifications of Stanton Friedman, the deductions of Dr. Amir Aczel, and the cast of other thousands weighing in on the subject – what say NASA?

How about it? Surely we can’t believe that NOTHING in the way of official guidance is provided to our astronauts, cosmonauts, kinonauts, and soon, if we are to accept trends, citizen-nauts or is even available if asked?

Ok, so Part 1211.1xx of NASA’s Title 14 was repealed/invalidated in 1991. Big deal. Did anything take its place? If so, where is it? If not, why the hell not!?!? There SHOULD be! My money says there IS in fact such a policy.
The current iteration of Title 14 just shows part 1211 as “Reserved”

What does that mean? "Reserved" as in ATS (no pun intended)? Reserved as in “redacted”? Reserved as in”removed”, “replaced”, “revised” - what?

How about the Ruskies? What do they tell their boys (and girls)? “If ET knocks on your porthole asking if you have any Grey Poupon, ignore them – we have no policy dealing with such an occurrence, it can’t happen - it won't happen - ever”.

What is being told to Burt Rutan and all those other soon-to-be commercial space-faring outfits? “There will be nothing to see up there, but if you do encounter something, you won’t live to tell anyone about it!”

And what if a rover on Mars stumbles upon something - irrefutable? If Spirit or Opportunity roll up to a giant ET-McDonalds ruin or a crashed ET-troop transport – is there no policy in place for dealing with such an event? And I don’t mean some rock that looks like a skull, a shadow in the shape of a beer-bottle, or one of Singh’s worms either. I mean a no-doubt-about-it work of non-human engineering. Not one line of code, not one sentence of instructions, not one paragraph of policy to consider such a possibility?

I call complete and utter B.S. on that. Period.

Like Zorgon and many others here, I’ve accumulated Terrabytes of documents and a huge library of books and reference works on this subject and I STILL have not found anything that validates such a policy is in place. And I will stake my life (scratch that)… er, I will stake my, umm, “good name” on the existence of some formal contingency plan for handling an encounter during space operations.

So far, no astronaut, scientist, official, or even space agency clerk that I’ve asked (and I’ve asked many) will acknowledge the existence of such a document or policy (though I have a had a few winks and raised eyebrows –especially from the military types).

I guess we mere mortals are not-to-know. FOIA, my butt. *sigh*.

Anyway – thanks for asking the questions (again) Zorgon. And I appreciate all of the answers and commentary provided. Some of us are not into chasing rainbows or shadows or fuzzy points of light on grainy amateur film or ET-on-toast (pareidolia) or other ET-ghosts. I want just the facts, Ma’am. The truth.

I hate being lied to, and like many of you, I’m convinced that we are.

Carry on…

p.s. One semi-official told me once at a space-weapons conference that NASA and other 'agencies' are very concerned that should a common-citizen have an ET encounter that they would NOT represent Earth's government(s) optimally and so such encounters are both 'discouraged and denied'. When I asked him who IS sanctioned or approved for such encounters if and when they MAY occur - the conversation abruptly ended. No surprises there, I guess...

So - a corroborate question to Zorgon's #2: "WHO SPEAKS FOR EARTH"?

Does the USA or ANY Earth government have a plan? WHAT IF they land on the proverbial White House lawn? Does everyone run around like a bunch of idiots with no one having any idea what to do next with only the First-Dog running out to greet the visitors with some yelping and maybe a snap at their ankles? Again- B.S. Sure, we're collectively stupid, but we're not THAT stupid. Are We?

So what IS that policy, where is it, and who wrote it??

[edit to fix link]


[edit on 7/29/2009 by Outrageo]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


so you think every civilization in the galaxy has FTL travel except us?

reply to post by zorgon
The deeper a person explores into the subject the less they know. Hoaxers, investigators, sources, insiders and FOIA documents seem to add more layers of intrigue than we can comprehend. New enthusiasts think they'll discover some truth in there...veterans say different. PJ Klass might have known more about it all when he left his deathbed curse...

THE LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF PHILIP J. KLASS

To ufologists who publicly criticize me, ... or who even think unkind thoughts about me in private, I do hereby leave and bequeath:

THE UFO CURSE:

No matter how long you live, you will never know any more about UFOs than you know today. You will never know any more about what UFOs really are, or where they come from. You will never know any more about what the U.S. Government really knows about UFOs than you know today. As you lie on your own death-bed you will be as mystified about UFOs as you are today.

And you will remember this curse.

The subject is like a bad a drug habit...temporary highs and no long-term satisfaction

Originally posted by yeti101
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

so you think every civilization in the galaxy has FTL travel except us?

No. I think that every civ in this galaxy that can use radio waves, and actually use them, have the modulation diminished over the distances required to reach us.

Keep in mind, it is likely that you have a 200 year window, max, for them to be broadcasting radio waves. That means we will recieve them for only 200 years....IF they even reach us.

I, personally, believe that things like this are filtered by the same objects that keep us from leaving near proximity (preventing manned Mars missions).

reply to post by Outrageo


Thanks for that post. You have just given me a way to put that question to several insiders I know... I think as it is a question of policy I can expect a serious answer Let you know the results

Originally posted by yeti101
so you think every civilization in the galaxy has FTL travel except us?

“We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity….. anything you can imagine we already know how to do.” - Ben Rich, former Head of the Lockheed Skunk Works

I have no reason not to believe him

reply to post by zorgon


Thanks, Z! I VERY much look forward to hearing and seeing anything you may be able to discover along these lines. I'll share as well as I continue my own search.

So - Who Speaks for Earth if they DO show up? What is the Plan if something IS discovered or an encounter becomes a part of a space operation?

It just CAN'T be NOTHING!

Good luck...

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


How detectable their radio waves are will depend on how powerfull their transmitter is. We're not talking tv or radio transmissions.

When it comes to radar we could detect an Aceribo sized radar out to 1000 light years. We have already used the Aceribo dish in this way to detect asteriods that may be a threat to earth.


[edit on 30-7-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by Outrageo

So - Who Speaks for Earth if they DO show up? What is the Plan if something IS discovered or an encounter becomes a part of a space operation?

It just CAN'T be NOTHING!

You do! I do! Everyone does!

From birth you are told: "you're only one person, and one person can't make a difference" - the people of Earth are able to make this decision on a conscious level themselves.

How?

Go outside and talk (in your mind if you must) to 'them' - say "HI!" ask them to help you become of cosmic consciousness - ask for yourself - not for everyone - it is up to the individual to ask for *contact* - and it is in your intent what will show for you. I suggest loving - and a learning intent.

Tipping point will be when the majority starts thinking this way - and disclosure will happen to people that are open to it - and are READY for it.

We are still a young mind consciousness - and we would overload and our heads would pop under the extreme reality of ET presence - it has been bred into our minds that we can't believe in "them". Hollywood has helped present hostile and scary ETs - a bad way to soften the way for disclosure.

So sites like ATS do help in bridging peoples ideas and thoughts. Exopolitics has the right idea that their is a structure to universal politics and laws - and Earth is quarantined due to our primitive, destructive, warlike ways. I believe we are hybrids that have certain negative ET DNA - and that makes us special as a civilization, as we can help bridge the gap between the different civilizations in the universe and beyond.

The sad reality is that as Earthlings we usually need a pretty catastrophic event or world war - to pull us together and become united in outcome, eg Unite in Peace - or Unite in humanitarian aid situations.

But I think there is hope - and we are getting there - but someone please make a thread asking NASA not to bomb ANYTHING!

reply to post by zorgon


i have no reason to believe he actually said that. Do you have the audio/video?


shades of the von braun quote here. ie made up. Wouldnt be the 1st time eager belivers just make stuff up to support their cause.


[edit on 30-7-2009 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
How detectable their radio waves are will depend on how powerfull their transmitter is. We're not talking tv or radio transmissions.

Well then perhaps you could provide some research to show us how strong a transmitter would need to be for a signal to be coherent say at Alpha Centauri the closest star at 4.2 light years

Once we have established that then we can talk if its possible to be heard across the galaxy

Originally posted by yeti101

i have no reason to believe he actually said that. Do you have the audio/video?

www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

Wouldnt be the 1st time eager belivers just make stuff up to support their cause.

You mean like religious fanatics and debunkers editing encyclopedias and rewriting history to suit their agenda? (just google that )

Why not blow everyone out of the cyber sea and create pandemonium.

Point being, everything has a cost, its just who writes the checks

[edit on 1-8-2009 by tristar]

reply to post by zorgon


Greetings, fellow seeker...

Just wondering if you've heard back from any of your 'sources' re:

What is the "official" contingency/operational policy of NASA should they, or any of their assigns, encounter, however unlikely, EBEs or ET technology during any of their missions?

The only response that is utterly impossible: "NASA has NO policy, NO plan, and NO instructions for their astronauts (and other assets) to deal professionally with such an occurrence."

In other words, if a visiting ship cruises up alongside one of ours, or lunar or martian rovers stumble on something extraordinary - the most magnificent, profound revelation to humankind would be ignored completely or, at least, ineptly and haphazardly, since there is "No Policy" and no possible expectation that any such thing might happen.

r-i-g-h-t......

reply to post by Outrageo

The only response that is utterly impossible: "NASA has NO policy, NO plan, and NO instructions for their astronauts (and other assets) to deal professionally with such an occurrence."

Ohhh, I wouldn't rush to say anything is impossible with NASA. Not after the expensive screw up that meant the Mars study to test for life instead incinerated it's sample! Where are the checks and balances? Where's the quality control? By now we've seen that a NASA/ESA partnership is capable of flying something a million miles on a million kilometers of fuel

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by yeti101

i have no reason to believe he actually said that. Do you have the audio/video?

www.unexplained-mysteries.com...

When asked for audio/video proof that Ben Rich made this claim, you direct us to neither. Instead, you post a link to an entry on another forum, which just repeats the claim without evidence.

Originally posted by yeti101
shades of the von braun quote here. ie made up. Wouldnt be the 1st time eager belivers just make stuff up to support their cause.

I would suspect this is the case, since all that Zorgon could provide as proof was a posting in another forum. Lies, half-truths, misquotes, spin, misquotes and misappropriation are the bread and butter of many of the true believers. And some more than others. The truth is not their concern, but agreement.

[edit on 22-8-2009 by DoomsdayRex]

Originally posted by yeti101

But to expect any ET to use radio is nuts.

why? do you think humans are so special we are the only ones to discover radio/radar?

It is just the opposite. Their entire thinking on this is based on assumption supported by zero evidence.

They think that humans are (without any evidence) the least advanced intelligence in the galaxy and assume (again, without any evidence whatsoever) that the other intelligences have discovered something far superior for communication.

What many of them do not understand is that while intelligences may have discovered something superior, we can only search to the best of our ability. The technology that exists only in the special-pleading of people like Zorgon and Fran aside, the best of our ability would be searching in the radio spectrum and optical wavelengths. We are not looking for superior forms of communication because we do not and cannot know if they exist. But we do know that communication is possibly via the radio spectrum and optical wavelengths, so for the time being we are fettered to searching within these mediums.