The origin of "religion"

Originally posted by Wookiep
I'm not sure if religion by definition was even a concept until the times of Christ.

Hmm... I suppose you are correct. It is clear from scripture that God never wanted us to be slaves, and this is why he gave us free will. We can decide for ourselves whether or not we follow God's commands.

I have never liked the Catholic church. They teach that you must follow the Catholic church's commands or face eternal suffering. Who said they were in charge of my soul? Certainly not God. Only He has the authority to accept me as one of His.

Having said this it would still seem as if God wants us to follow strict rules (His commands), but I feel that it isn't necessarily so... what I mean is that we, as fallen human beings, cannot be perfect. We cannot always follow his commands. The way I see it we can only strive to live our lives morally. The Ten Commandments are not strict laws me must obey or face the gates of Hell, they are simple moral guidelines that actually every person should be following anyway. Living a life of lies, for example, is a terrible way to live.

So God is not forcing us to do anything. He has simply given us guidelines to follow. Since we cannot hope to be perfect Jesus is there to offer us salvation even though we're are flawed.

I hope this makes some sense...

[edit on 18-7-2009 by one_enlightened_mind]

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by Wookiep

Let's see if we can raise the intellectual tone of this thread to match the OP.

Ok, that is definately a welcome idea! I should also mention that all theorys and opinions are welcome here as it is the very purpose of this thread! Some may be right, some may be wrong but all posts so far have been interesting.

A far more interesting question, one I was disappointed to find the OP wasn't asking, is the origin of religion - the thing, not the word. How and why did mankind come to invent or evolve religion? I have my own theory. What's yours?

Well in the very top line, I did ask what is it? Who came up with it? The defentition was *my* first curious inquiry about religion as a whole.

As far as knowing the answers to who invented it and how it came to evolve is not known to me but seriously up for debate! I feel strongly that religion was incorperated into the origional "relationship" with God and man somewhere around the time of Christ. (again probably for poilical or personal gain) Imo religion was never intended to really be a part of it (our relationship with God) at all. Of course I could be mistaken.



[edit on 18-7-2009 by Wookiep]

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Wookiep]

But you can find the roots of religion back before Plato and Socrates,

In China for example we can go back at least 5,000 years and still find today many small temples scattered across China of many different gods.
Many of these are based on the environment and the alliance to moral behaviour.

I have visited many of these while living in China.

Many old communities that are much older than 2,000 years still have the remains of these temples and shrines that are still in the form of buildings and Not just rubble.

These can be found even in the smaller communities and there are thousands of these.

But Religion has a lot of the material left behind that we see today, having been used as though religious,but in fact has in fact Nothing at all to do with religion.

You can slap the Tag Religion on anything really, from possessions, money, wealth or achievement.

But my thoughts are that Religion is for Power even though this is in vein.

the Roman Church as I have said was/is a department, LOL.. of Roman Government.

The so called holy Roman church was part of the holy Roman empire and still is today.

Under the ones believed to be in control, was Two immediate institutions or Government Departments ..

a. The Court System enforcing Roman Law and the devotion to 1st The holy Roman Empire.

b, The holy Roman church and they were responsible for keeping the masses on the correct road to being obedient to the holy Roman empire.

The church plaid a very powerful function in domestic and social behaviour and still does within the Roman and Catholic community.

Try and give alternative thought to a church community and see what happens ???

Yes you will be EX Communicated from the fold, even and perhaps more so today, than ever. If we don't conform then we become known as a social outcast!

Barbaric ???

Yes Extremely!

The government subtly brings in religion into their Court proceedings and involvement with Government Departments such as Swearing an oath on the bible!

Even though it is written in that bible "Tough shall Not Swear by anything...etc etc.

Even the Moon landings involved Religious material in a speech on the moon ???

Many National Anthems and oaths contain religious convictions of some sorts. Usually claiming some special support or favouritism of God/god specifically to that Country.

So really Church or religion is Part of Government!

Many Religious organisations are Not required to pay Taxation !

But in all society/societies there can be found a religious system that can often or in most cases be traced back to Control of the masses.

But much of the literature I have studied over the Last 40 years or so that was said to be religious was in fact Not religious at all but often was contaminated with Philosophy in order to hide the content of the manuscript.

The Drawing of The Soul I offered is recorded in most Countries in some form or other usually in Government Buildings, Public owned Buildings, Palaces, Temples, Most religious Shrines, including churches of Rome and other denominations, Bank Buildings, Arcades, Paving. etc etc.

In fact you can find this Partition Map or Matrix in any country in the world.

Much clothing from all countries incorporates designs from this structure, as well as floor coverings, mosaics etc etc .

Yet humankind still denies its reality !!!

Why ???

Hmmmmm Yes Why, indeed ???

It is my Conclusion that Religion destroys the acceptance of this knowledge by deliberately infiltrating Miss Information !

So perhaps religion is there to introduce Miss Information as it is portrayed in the verses from The Gospel of Thomas I presented earlier in this post.

The Drawing I posted to this thread, is Not, I repeat, Not of my Invention but is common knowledge right across the Earth.

But I have also seen this Visually, and in fact have I Drawn this Matrix, without any error.

The Drawing I have shown is very much related to the Motivation and origins of Religion, in that Religion has tried to eradicate this knowledge by the implementation of Miss Information via Religious indoctrination.

[edit on 18-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by Wookiep


Interesting post. The origin of religion is one of the great mysteries of our species. I think it originates during a transitional time when we went from hunter gatherer species living in small family units, to living in larger villages and communities thanks to the wonders of agriculture. Success in agriculture came from studying the sun, the seasons, the sky and those mysterious lights that sparked the imagination of early man. Not only was early man entranced by those lights in the sky he was dependent on them to survive and so adoration and worship was bestowed upon those lights. Even today many planets, stars, etc are named after gods and goddesses.

I believe that most religion was used to tie and bind the community and civilization together in order to assure their success they had to be unified in their belief and they worshiped the sun, moon, stars and various other elements of nature which they could scarcely hope to understand. These unknowns became gods and later became God though monotheism was barely ever practiced and even those considered faithful to the Abrahamic God often had idols.

So for a while religion helped us but eventually that wore out and it was used by governments and kingdoms to justify their tyranny, genocide, crusades, and other horrors. In my opinion religion has outstayed its welcome. Instead of unity we now use it for division, and instead of love and peace it seems to only spread ignorance, guilt, suffering and help control the minds of the masses...

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


Very well said. I agree with most of that, and couldn't have said it better!

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

But you can find the roots of religion back before Plato and Socrates,

In China for example we can go back at least 5,000 years and still find today many small temples scattered across China of many different gods.
Many of these are based on the environment and the alliance to moral behaviour.

I have visited many of these while living in China.

Many old communities that are much older than 2,000 years still have the remains of these temples and shrines that are still in the form of buildings and Not just rubble.

This is very informative, thank you! My only question is, were these temples and shrines a testament to "religion" or their "beliefs"? I'm finding that there is a big difference between the two.

[edit on 18-7-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by Wookiep


Religion has become a belief!

Knowledge has been lost, but this situation is the overall theme, of the ancient writings and the history of humankind.

But in keeping with the ancient knowledge The Truth is about to be Resurrected. (awoken from Sleep)...

From The Gospel of Thomas...

He said,

“O Lord,
there are many around
the drinking trough,
but there
is nothing
in the cistern.”

Religion ....

1. A belief in a divine or superhuman power or principal.
(Comment.. This is where the problem is (( superhuman power or principal ))
usu. thought as the Creator of All things.
2. The manifestationof such a belief in worship
( Worship...1. Adoration, homage, etc. given to a diety.
2. the rituals prayers, etc., expressing such adoration or homage etc etc. ) ritual, conduct, etc.
3. Any system of religious faith or practice: the Jewish religion.
4. The religious or monastic life: to enter religion.
5. Anything that elicits devotion, zeal, dedication, etc.
Politics is his religion. (Latin - L religio)

A Quote from a Book on Byzantium...
Quote:

This attitude, in which the Contemplation ( Theoria ) of the true Idea is considered the highest goal of reason, appears very clearly in Neoplatonism as it was systematised by Plotinus.
Plato compared the highest Idea with the Sun, and Plotinus also described the meaning with the divine as the experience of Light. This Light he says comes from the highest Being, and it is Highest Being Himself .... God comes with Light, that is to say that the Light is the prooSunf of the coming of God.
He also says, without the contemplation ( Theoria ) of The Light, our Soul remains Darkness.
For those who were influenced by this Idea, The One True Life worth striving for was the Contemplative Life ( bios Theoretikos, or vita Contemplatativa )

Note here that Plato knew of the Soul!

The Drawing I gave of The Soul was known back then and you can find the evidence in The Byzantium art in the form of Mosaics.

Note that Christians also refer to The The Son of God as "The Sun of Righteousness" found in the book of Malachi...

As Thomas said Jesus said that the Pharisees and the Scribes took the Keys of Knowledge and Hid them.

The Knowledge of Truth has been replaced by belief.

That is the belief in Roman Doctrine and Politics!

But it is The Knowledge of Truth, that sets you free and Not Belief as most would have you believe.

The Matrix I have Drawn is Truth.

It is The Partition Map of The Soul used in the Processing System of the Soul and the Construction of All things.

Religion has only been present, to try in Vein, to terminate this knowledge.

But Lifebeing "Consciousness" or "Awareness" is far far more Powerful, that the power humankind in vein professes to have.

Humankind can Not hide or get rid of The Truth, no matter what he or she believes in or pretends!

[edit on 18-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Wookiep

Religion ....

1. A belief in a divine or superhuman power or principal.
(Comment.. This is where the problem is (( superhuman power or principal ))
usu. thought as the Creator of All things.
2. The manifestationof such a belief in worship
( Worship...1. Adoration, homage, etc. given to a diety.
2. the rituals prayers, etc., expressing such adoration or homage etc etc. ) ritual, conduct, etc.
3. Any system of religious faith or practice: the Jewish religion.
4. The religious or monastic life: to enter religion.
5. Anything that elicits devotion, zeal, dedication, etc.
Politics is his religion. (Latin - L religio)

By this defenition you are indeed correct. However, if we go by the origin of the word here:

Origin:
1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament ) + -iōn- -ion; cf. rely


Which you and another stated earlier comes from the greek word "religio" the meaning of the word changes significantly. There seems to be something missing. Now, it is possible that the word was used as a means to tie or fasten one to his faith or "gods" I can buy that, however the modern meaning of the word is significantly different than the older meaning. The word itself *is* older than Christianity but not older than the old testament (that can be debated), which the word was never used even once. I'm mostly troubled at how the word or even the "thing" (religion) itself Has become so corrupt. Just my observation and humble opinion, but I hold strong to the fact that it was on purpose near the days of Christ.

But it is The Knowledge of Truth, that sets you free and Not Belief as most would have you believe.

Now THIS is an excellent quote. This is close to if not THE defenition of "faith". in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.

dictionary.reference.com...





[edit on 18-7-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by Wookiep


Yes I would agree with you...

Origin:
1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament ) + -iōn- -ion; cf. rely

But I believe you may find earlier evidence of the meaning of religion but it will appear in Ionic Greek perhaps as far back as 2,000 BC or even further...

You have got me interested so I will do some research on the word religion and see what I can find.

Thanks for your inspiration...

I have had trouble communicating with ATS so have another look at my last post.... I have edited it some what...

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


I'll look forward to what you might find! Thank you for contributing to this thread, you've been starred.

reply to post by Wookiep


First thank you for the star...

In Ionic Greek...

I cant tell you the year of origin, but can only say, perhaps earlier than 2,000 BC.

It is of the Original Ionic Greek Greek Language. (Very Very Ancient when Only upper case Greek fonts were used)

I cant write in Greek fonts here, but I will spell the word phonetically....

Theta, Rho, Eta, Sigma, Kappa, Omicron, Sigma.

Religion.

Theta, Rho, Eta, Sigma, Kappa, Epsilon, Nu, Sigma.

Religious worship, service, observance...

But remember this is the Understanding of the word given to us by the scribes or Authorised Linguistics Departments of today.

But never the less the word Religion has its roots from perhaps as far back before 2,000 BC

And the word would have been no doubt used by Plato (I presume) and Pythagoras.

Remembering where and how the English language was made up.

Greek, Latin, French etc.

The Romans were responsible for setting up Standards regarding Communication, music, and the arts in about 150 AD (if my memory serves me correctly) including what is known as New Testament Greek Grammar !
It was The Romans that introduced The Lower case Greek fonts.
Only upper Case Fonts were used in earlier Greek.

Much of the Ionic Greek came from Zionic, so by the Romans changing the Greek Written Language, hid most of the Geometric Content in the Old Ionic Greek, that was based on, or taken from part, of the Ancient Zionic Language. With this knowledge I was able to reconstruct some of the Original Zionic Language and make use of this in the work I do.

Note:- Also The main language of the day of Jesus was Not Hebrew.

First Greek.
Then Latin.
Then Hebrew.

All were taught under the schooling of the day, Controlled by The Romans, and the Synagogue...

But any way the children in the Jewish world, were taught Greek, Latin and Hebrew in that order, even though they used Hebrew at home...

I will continue and see what else I can dig up...

Hope this will help...

[edit on 18-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by Wookiep

First thank you for the star...

In Ionic Greek...

I cant tell you the year of origin, but can only say, perhaps earlier than 2,000 BC.

It is of the Original Ionic Greek Greek Language. (Very Very Ancient when Only upper case Greek fonts were used)

I cant write in Greek fonts here, but I will spell the word phonetically....

Theta, Rho, Eta, Sigma, Kappa, Omicron, Sigma.

Religion.

Theta, Rho, Eta, Sigma, Kappa, Epsilon, Nu, Sigma.

Religious worship, service, observance...

But remember this is the Understanding of the word given to us by the scribes or Authorised Linguistics Departments of today.

But never the less the word Religion has its roots from perhaps as far back before 2,000 BC

Very nice! And thank you for the phonetics. Wow, so we have determined that this word has been around a long time! The old testament was written during different times by different authors, but surely 2k years B.C. would be during the time when many of, if not *some* of the books were written? The understanding of the word is clearly up for debate, however..if the word has been around this long it clearly shows that since it was never even used in the old testament, then that further shows it was never intended to be used in the bible. Perhaps we should look into the possibility that it *was* used in the old testament? Pre-king James? Maybe we can find the root word in there somewhere? If not, this to me would show again, why maybe religion was never supposed to be incorperated with "christianity" as we know it.

And you're welcome for the star.







[edit on 18-7-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

Note:- Also The main language of the day of Jesus was Not Hebrew.

It was Aramaic.

Aramaic is a Semitic language with a 3,000-year history.[3] It has been the language of administration of empires and the language of divine worship. It was the day-to-day language of Israel in the Second Temple period (539 BCE – 70 CE), the original language of large sections of the biblical books of Daniel and Ezra, likely to have been the mother tongue of Jesus of Nazareth and is the main language of the Talmud.Aramaic belongs to the Afro-Asiatic language family. Within that diverse family, it belongs to the Semitic subfamily. Aramaic is a part of the Northwest Semitic group of languages, which also includes the Canaanite languages such as Hebrew and Phoenician. It is also related to Arabic, being part of the more diverse Central Semitic languages.[5] Aramaic script was widely adopted for other languages, and is ancestral to the Arabic and Hebrew alphabets.

Aramaic's long history and diverse and widespread use has led to the development of many divergent varieties which are sometimes treated as dialects. Thus, there is no one Aramaic language, but each time and place has had its own variety. Aramaic is retained as a liturgical language by certain Eastern Christian sects, in the form of Syriac, the Aramaic variety by which Eastern Christianity was diffused, whether or not those communities once spoke it or another form of Aramaic as their vernacular, but have since shifted to another language as their primary community language.

Modern Aramaic is spoken today as a first language by many scattered, predominantly small, and largely isolated communities of differing Christian, Jewish and Muslim groups of the Middle East[6]—most numerously by the Assyrians in the form of Assyrian Neo-Aramaic—that have all retained use of the once dominant lingua franca despite subsequent language shifts experienced throughout the Middle East. The Aramaic languages are considered to be endangered.

SOURCE:en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Thank you and I agree with what you quoted.

From The Infancy Gospel of Thomas

Quote:

14.
And when Joseph saw the understanding of The Child and his age,
that He was growing to maturity,
he resolved again that He should not remain ignorant of LETTERS;
and he took Him and handed Him over to another teacher.

And the teacher said to Joseph:
"First I will teach Him Greek, and Then Hebrew."

For the teacher knew The Child's knowledge
and was afraid of Him.
Nevertheless he WROTE the alphabet and practised it with Him
for a long time;
but He gave him no answer.

And Jesus said to him:
If you are indeed a teacher, and if you know the Letters
well, tell Me the Meaning of The ALPHA,
and I will tell you that of THE BETA."

But I was referring to the languages that were taught (and the Priority of those languages, within the Synagogue and Not the Origin of the Languages...

very well thought out.

I see where your coming from with religion turning people into slaves. More importantly for alot of people it is used for guidance and allegories on how to live a fruitful life. It could go either way depending how you look at it. But in the end its all up to the individual.


This one philosopher said once that "if there was no God man would invent one"

that simple people always want to believe in something metaphysical. ITs highly illogical then again so is the success of Paris Hilton.

reply to post by The Matrix Traveller


Um, Aramaic is the langauge of Jesus or so it is claimed. It gave an offshoot in the form of Hebrew, but that was later.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by The Matrix Traveller

 

Um, Aramaic is the langauge of Jesus or so it is claimed. It gave an offshoot in the form of Hebrew, but that was later.

I think he's refering to the *dominant* language at the time. Not the language Jesus spoke. That is my understanding, at least.

[edit on 19-7-2009 by Wookiep]

reply to post by Wookiep


Its interesting what some of these early scripts bring out from those dusty and lost corners of the libraries.

these are some of the questions that haunt us.

So in some cases we find contradiction in historical records.

Perhaps this just highlights what we are being taught today.

I really think that Jesus made a good point in what Thomas wrote regarding the Pharisees and Scribes having hidden the keys of Knowledge.

There is a huge can of worms under our education today and It is my opinion there is a much uglier Political gender festering here than we can imagine ???

For some reason there is a section of human society that is desperately trying to derail the Knowledge, that Life in other words Consciousness or Awareness is a totally different component and is Not directly part of the Human form.

It takes no intelligence to realise, that when you pick up an article or object, such as a ball, and observe what is aware of the ball, that it is your Conscious Entity, that is aware of the ball, and Not the hand or Brain!

The Brain is only the Decoder/Encoder between the Observer (Awareness or Consciousness) and that which is being experienced or observed namely your universe.

So it is my Conclusion that the Governments of Humankind would rather that you are the Species and Not the Observer using the Species to experience the Universe.

Thus if Consciousness or Awareness namely Life is denied then They Humankind in Governments and Institutions can rule over others without any questions being raised !

Hence Religion.

But I believe we should be doing more to both know and understand our real selves rather than following blindly after those trying to derail Truth whether using Religion or Science.

First we must discover the Root of Our Consciousness, Awareness or as it is called Life!

[edit on 19-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]

reply to post by one_enlightened_mind


Yes sir, that makes all the sense in the world, at least to me.

I'm sorry I didn't respond to your post sooner, I was occupied with some other ones.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows



Just come across an interesting explanation, regarding the languages of those days and the language of the first New Testament Gospels were supposed to be written in.

I know this is digressing from the thread, but may clear up a few things or invoke further research.

Check out www.levitt.com... /essays/language.html

I would be interested in your thoughts.

[edit on 19-7-2009 by The Matrix Traveller]