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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Really? It is absurb to you that under the Obama healthcare the STATE, and not doctors, will decide if patients can have certain treatments, and operations onlly if they are cost effective, and if there is no doubt the treatment or operation will work?
Is it absurb that doctors who don't follow the new policies by the STATE will be fined? Even if the doctors think a treatment, or operation can help a patient, but the STATE decides is too expensive, or the treatment, or operation might not work so it is better if this is not done?
Is it absurb to not want to pay a hefty sum of $1,000 U.S. dollars if we do not have, or even can't pay for healthcare insurance?
Is it absurb that in a time of ECONOMIC CRISIS when Americans are losing 500,000 + jobs a month every month, many Americans can't even buy meals for their families, yet they HAVE TO pay for healthcare insurance, or they will have to pay a fine?
Is it absurb not to want the government in control over healthcare when the government is in control of Veteran hospitals, and there are horror true stories as to what happens in government run hospitals?
What is absurb is that someone who obviously hasn't even bothered to research the topic, is calling Americans absurb because we don't want this Socialist dictatorship to shove down our throats a healthcare policy that is going to be a lot worse than the healthcare we have had until now....
Originally posted by dolphinfan
What are the rights of the folks who are paying for these rights of others and what about their "right" to keep the current insurance they have, which ultimatelyt they will not be able to as this will mean the demise of private insurance.
Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by Solomons
Is it absurb not to want the government in control over healthcare when the government is in control of Veteran hospitals, and there are horror true stories as to what happens in government run hospitals?
Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
Nothing is free. The money came out of taxes. The taxes come from the citizens.
The best MD's will always go were the best money is or they will move on to other more lucrative endeavors. That leaves the bottom of the barrel to service medical needs.
Are we to believe that Canadians overwhelm our medical system along the border because health care is adequate?
The fellow I met in Whitehorse who had to wait for 18 months for a simple hernia surgery while he and his family went broke was a real person.
Originally posted by lagnar
There are so many good points in this thread is was very tough to be selective as to which got stars, but flagged indeed.
This is obviously a two edged sword, IMHO. On one hand you have the people who can't even afford insurance premiums finally getting attention that's most likely built up for quite awhile. But on the other hand, the Government is "taking" control. It seems inevitable that it's going to be pushed through, just as all the bailouts have been - whether 80% of the population disagrees or not.
This one fact alone leads me right to a gigantic red flag. We must keep in mind that this is being done whether we want it or not. I would even go as far to say you can rest assured that we are not getting a say in it at all - the corporations who pay for and dictate 'our' congressman's vote (or 'sway') are all who are being considered. In other words, the corporations who supply the rancher with the cheapest feed are who controls the livestock's well-being - as well as what we eat btw (*cough* Monsanto! *cough*). Anyway, it's a easy precept to understand...go where the money goes for any real predictability, let alone an ample measure of the consideration within.
I'm an American, so my only portal to other country's health care is pretty much just Micheal Moore's "Sicko. It simply leads me to this conclusion:
If a government is afraid of their people's will, then this National Health System has a real chance of being a huge benefit to most involved (this wouldn't necessarily exclude decision makers), but if the government controls 'its' people, I'd have to say that the corporations will be in total control of their livestock.
I guess the only question left is, "What kind of government do we have here? One in Full Control of its people, or one where The People control what happens? Do we have a government with good intentions, or do we have a government with self-serving corporate agendas?"
Hmm...seems I've always known there was a good reason not to like Capitalism. In my opinion, we have them right where they want us.
We honestly deserve everything we get, I believe.
Originally posted by HunkaHunka
As a business owner, I want to see the cost differential.
To be honest the healthcare costs we pay for our employees have shot up astronomically since we started our company in 2004. It's to the point where it's becoming a huge problem. Something has to be done about it. And if "making it a right" comes in at a much better cost... then I'm all for it!
Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Don't know why you folks need to fight that kind of logic.
(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term 'grandfathered health insurance coverage' means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT-CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED- Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS- Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.CommentsClose CommentsPermalink
(3) RESTRICTIONS ON PREMIUM INCREASES- The issuer cannot vary the percentage increase in the premium for a risk group of enrollees in specific grandfathered health insurance coverage without changing the premium for all enrollees in the same risk group at the same rate, as specified by the Commissioner.
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PNHP Co-founders Drs. Steffie Woolhandler and David Himmelstein published this definitive study of the administrative costs of the U.S. health system in the August 21, 2003 edition of the New England Journal of Medicine. After analyzing the costs of insurers, employers, doctors, hospitals, nursing homes and home-care agencies in both the U.S. and Canada, they found that administration consumes 31.0 percent of U.S. health spending, double the proportion of Canada (16.7 percent)
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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - France, Japan and Australia rated best and the United States worst in new rankings focusing on preventable deaths due to treatable conditions in 19 leading industrialized nations, researchers said on Tuesday...The researchers compared these rankings with rankings for the same 19 countries covering the period of 1997 and 1998. France and Japan also were first and second in those rankings, while the United States was 15th, meaning it fell four places in the latest rankings.
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More than 18,000 adults in the USA die each year because they are uninsured and can't get proper health care, researchers report in a landmark study released Tuesday.
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In reality, both data and anecdotes show that the American people are already waiting as long or longer than patients living with universal health-care systems.