I Don't Want To Shoot To Kill

Considering the worst could happen at any moment, I'm struggling with a personal dilemna. I don't want to shoot to kill, ever! But what if the time comes, the point of no return, and I'm not prepared to defend my family and home? I can't decide which scenario is worse. Having a weapon at my fingertips capable of taking another life or not having one.

I would like to hear from all sides of this issue. Only with enough good information will I be able to decide what I should do.

I was trained to use an M-16 in Basic Training, I fired a shotgun once and held a pistol once. I'm great at darts and archery. My only weapons for self-defense is an aluminum baseball bat and kitchen knives. (Assorted garden tools and cast-iron cooking pots too.)

If everything goes south, it will happen suddenly. If I haven't decided before then, I'm totally out of luck. This is a hard choice to make. I don't want to take another life! I just don't want to do it...but what if I have to? I don't know which is worse.

Well, depending on what state you are in you may be able to get "less-lethal" shotgun shells ranging from bean bags to rubber balls.

The best thing would be for you ro realize your life and the safety of your family are the tops and get over your concern. There is nothing more important. Any hesitation could cost you your life or your family theirs.

It goes without saying that doing your best to simply avoid hostile situations will satisfy both concerns.

I think you are worrying about nothing, but i applaud you for having the sense and honesty to post this. Makes a refreshing change from many here who assume they could take a life quite easily should the need arise.

I know a few soldiers who went through basic training, and more advanced training. I viewed them as very competant soldiers but were like frightened rabbits in a contact.

Thats not putting any of them down, i think some people are more inclined to use extreme aggresion than others.

I think you should just have enough in your house to look after yourself and your family, if the time comes that yours or your family's lives are at risk, you'll see a side of you that will not only suprise you, but keep your family safe too.

CX.

[edit on 9/7/09 by CX]

Someone threatens my family with violence I will shoot them right between the eyes and not lose any sleep over it.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Well, depending on what state you are in you may be able to get "less-lethal" shotgun shells ranging from bean bags to rubber balls.

The best thing would be for you ro realize your life and the safety of your family are the tops and get over your concern. There is nothing more important. Any hesitation could cost you your life or your family theirs.

It goes without saying that doing your best to simply avoid hostile situations will satisfy both concerns.

That is an option to consider I hadn't thought of.

I know you are right and I also know that if armed, I wouldn't hesitate in the moment. There is no doubt.

Staying away from hostile situations is a can do. Keeping them from attacking us is another matter.

I know people who have taken lives. They are changed forever and its something they cannot share with anyone. If the time came and that were the case, I would join them.

But if I never put myself in the position of having to, then I'm a coward and not defending my family, thereby putting their lives (or deaths) on my conscience as well.

Well like everything in human nature, instincts will take over the preservation mode will take over also.

As everything we tend to defend ourselves first and think about what we did later.

I will have no problem helping somebody that is just in need and in desperation.

But if that somebody happen to point a gun at me and my love ones I will have not problem doing the same.

The better person will win, or that I can only hope.

if you do not intend to kill then you don't need to think about getting a gun. Guns are for killing. Plane and simple. they are a great tool for this job. They will continue to be the most popular tool for this job for some time. But the first thing you are taught in gun safety is never point the gun at something yo do not intend to kill. I think you have solved you moral delema. Make sure you know which of your neighbors has a gun and try to remember their number. My best advice.

You are a soldat I would like on my side!
Whatever you do, never forget that you are human first. There are too many who lose their humanity and become desensitised to death.
If you want to know one of my horrible secrets I have had to shoot, and shoot at, human beings. But I have never killed anyone.
I took a vow when I was pretty young never to kill, but I always knew I would eventually break that promise, I dont know why, I think I am a born warrior. But I am putting it off as long as possible. But I will never break another vow: never harm the innocent.

If you have to take a human life, do so without pleasure and with much remorse, but not regret. It is okay to cry. It is okay to cry years later. But do not forget!!
Besides, if you have never been shot, well, I learned it is better to be the first one to shoot...

This is a ahrd desicison to make..indeed. This is how i look at it...I would never want to hurt anyone, in fact, i like helping people. IF tthe dunn hits the fan one day, and someone is trying to take my life away, im not going to let that happen. Suppose yuo got a owman and kids> perpetrators might do alot of harm to them, physical as well as sexual. This would be the moment of truth..a coward, or a MAN...survival of the fittest. I would not hesitate at all, only in self defense, to pull the trigger, IF i DEF knew these were about to be my final monets on this planet, because of some starnger who sees me as being in his way..or thiers..

If that moment comes where it is either you or them, trust me you will do what is necesarry. The fact that such an action could result in death to those that threatened you is irregardless.

If your action was not premeditated, if your action was the final option to ensure you and your loved ones survival then you will sleep like a baby, because you used the necessay level of force needed for that situation.

Since you are prior service you should remember one of the most fundamental rules on the battlefield...(1) you never ever aim to wound or injure and (2) you never try for a head shot either (unless of course you are a sniper)...Remember you are taught to shoot center mass, no more no less.

Eliminate the threat period. I would recommend that you do purchase a fire arm if you haven't already. IMO a fire arm is more of a deterent rather than a insturment of death.

what is this situation that you are alluding to that would put you in a position to have to shoot someone?

Originally posted by jonny2410
what is this situation that you are alluding to that would put you in a position to have to shoot someone?

Good question. There are multiple scenarios I am considering.

One. Last fall a freak windstorm knocked out the power for weeks in places. Our power was only out for 3 days. We were lucky. But it got me thinking about the what if's. One thing led to another and I realized that any major occurance, natural or manmade, that could shut down our delivery systems (food, water, electricity, gas) for extended time periods would be fatal for most people unequipped to care for their own needs. I can't foresee myself looking to the government to help and wouldn't want it anyway.

In any disaster scenario whether large or small, widespread or contained, people inevitably rely on others for basic necessities because they thought it would never happen. What if those basics are not forthcoming? What if the government doesn't step in? People will panic. Panicked people do what they think they have to to survive. They are dangerous.

What if all of my stockpiling becomes known and the mob comes to take it? What if?

Human's once understood how to live in balance with nature. Now if something happens even that isn't an option. Nature is so out of balance, we couldn't live off the land. Preparation is key.

Hopefully, nothing like my what if scenario's ever happen! But being one of the lost doesn't interest me much either. So. The problem is do I get a firearm as preparation or pretend everything will be alright?

A nice 20 gauge shotgon in a youth model loaded with #4 buck,fired at the legs of a bad guy will put him down,and probably wouldnt kill him or her..But if infact you need to put a bad guy out for the count it has enough to do it with a better aim..

The problem with less than lethal rounds are,once you fire off one or two the games over if the bad guy is uneffected or has freinds with lethal rounds..They would have nothing to fear..



[edit on 9-7-2009 by Redpillblues]

reply to post by Hazelnut


Thank you for your honesty. It IS refreshing to read someone looking at this problem with compassion and apprehensive morality. What a pleasing break from the typical anonymous bravado.

I've been taught to shoot, but I've also been taught to value life. Everyone's not just my own.

The obvious problem arises when you, or someone you love is in IMMINENT danger. I don't mean threats, but actual danger. No one here can you tell you what to do then.

Some will say hold on to your faith and pray. Some will say shoot first and ask questions later.

Anything could be used as a weapon, but the best one by far is going to be your head. I think preparedness, planning and practicing your potential actions will give you some confidence and piece of mind.

Behaviourally, you pretty much have only three options, and I think you know this. Fight, flight and surrender.

'He who fights and runs away will live to fight another day.' - Demosthenes (338 B.C)

Surrender is almost certainly a humiliating death. Depending on your resources, skill level and the size of the opposing force, fighting, though valiant and honorable is probably a minimally survivable exercise. (there are many who will do fine, but many, many more who have neither the resources, the will, nor the expertise to win a gunfight or melee)

'Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.'

—Matthew 26:52, King James Version


That leaves me with one of my favorite, and IMO, most surviable options.
Flight. I don't advocate taking off screaming and flailing your arms at the first sign of danger. I instead advocate a policy of extreme familiarity with your surroundings, (no better place than home for this) situational awareness (use whatever you have access to to keep you informed about what is going on around you...baby monitors, video cameras, windows, radio, tv, etc.,) Stealth (hiding) and as a last resort, rapid, planned, prepared evacuation.

You know what is in your heart. Some people would rather die than kill. I admire that, but don't share the philosophy. I am a selfish person by nature and will do what I can to prolong my life and the lives of those I love.

There will always be someone tougher than me. There will always be a group that outnumbers or out guns me. That leaves me the one option, try to outsmart them. (I'm screwed!)

If you have faith in a God, maintain and exercise that faith. If you have a place to live, learn where to hide where you won't be detected by small threats. Learn or create stealthy escape routes to bug out when that feeling in your gut tells you that it's time to run.

Sorry to ramble, but this is a pretty deep subject. Thank you again for a thought-provoking thread.




[edit on 9-7-2009 by KSPigpen]

reply to post by Hazelnut


No sane person wishes to take a life. However, with the evil that can be done to you and your family should a warped individual or individuals takes an interest in making you his target, there is no greater responsibility then to protect your family at all costs.
Just imagine being in this nightmare:

Dr. William A. Petit Jr

This is not something to be ignored. Anyone at any time may be the victim of a crime such as this and understanding that fact can make the difference between you and yours surviving and being pawns in a sick game by this type of individual!

Zindo

I guarentee that "evil" people that now live off of the weakness of others will do so in emergency situations as well. I would regret killing anyone. Even if they are evil gang bangers. However, I would not sit idle while these types rape pillage and plunder.
I would have to put a round in their noodle and cry later.
If you have a family just think of the females at the mercy of some young punk. You know what you have to do.

.... Once the fear sets in , .... you would be amazed how easy it is to pull that trigger.

... If someone is threatening the safety of you or your family, sometimes you have no choice, ..... and if you dont shoot to kill, would you rather have someone in your front yard bleeding to death ???

... and if this thug does survive, .... all of his buddy's are going to know you shot him. And you could set yourself up for retaliation.

... yet it begs to question, .... how can you kill when mortality is an illusion ?

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
reply to post by Hazelnut

 

No sane person wishes to take a life. However, with the evil that can be done to you and your family should a warped individual or individuals takes an interest in making you his target, there is no greater responsibility then to protect your family at all costs.
Just imagine being in this nightmare:

Dr. William A. Petit Jr

This is not something to be ignored. Anyone at any time may be the victim of a crime such as this and understanding that fact can make the difference between you and yours surviving and being pawns in a sick game by this type of individual!

Zindo

That story you posted is one of my fears. Can you imagine how the Dr. feels now? I'm trying to but I can never come close to understanding what he has been going through since then. I appreciate you pointing it out for everyone to consider.

the simple truth is... don't matter what you think or how you feel.... this world is just plumb full of people who will happily rape your wife and daughter than make you watch while they slit their throats...

how you resolve that simple truth is really none of my business but I'm not going to pat you on the back and say how admirable your belief is... you do what you have to do to protect you and yours... or you don't, that's all your choice and none of can make you do anything one way or the other

Not all that walks on two legs is human.