Obama gets ally for health care plan: Wal-Mart

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
To the OP, this isn't a Democrat or Republican issue. This is just an example of our government stepping more in the private market where it shouldn't be. you're making it a left and right issue. You're falling into the globalists game. This is just part of their agenda. They want to divide all of us. They want us to believe the other side of the coin is better than the other. Universal health care is bad- but- I think we all can agree that there needs to be some change in health care... and I think that change has to come from the bottom up, and, it has to come on a personal basis with health care companies to meet face to face with individual consumers, to talk about their various problems, and, then find out what to do from there. We need to stop talking about government control here. What's really happening is that we're being divided- and- we're not thinking about solutions- what we're really fighting against is possible solutions we could make- that don't need government. While fighting against each other so much we don't really come to think of something better that we could do to solve the problem.

Once again looking at this wrong....

this is a case where private entities are greasing legislators and legislation to improve their own operations and bottom line. It is foolish to assume government is taking the
side of big business without that influence being boughten by big business.

And I would like to know why universal healthcare is "bad"?

Please post some statistics on cost and a list of the best healthcare in the world-- PSST
the top ten are universal in operation and are not AMERICAN.

In this case you are taking Big Business's side and your are keeping the PTBs power in place. Based upon the governments bad,,, ah,,,, but an enlightened man would see that big business is shaping the governments conduct.

The word socialism is the PTB second best weapon these days. Whos side are you on, REALLY???

are you sure?

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by mental modulator

 

MY father passed away two weeks ago

First and foremost, I'm very sorry for your loss and I'm sure he was a good man. I know it's a terrible thing to deal with...I've already lost my mother at a young age...and I dread the day I have to bury my father...who has cancer as you now.

Good wishes to you and hang in there man.

But I think people like yourself who really want change need to reevaluate and stop listening to many of these notions provided by people who depend on corporate ad dollars. The rules we have been taught are not iron clad, they are theory and in some cases manipulation that goes hand in hand with the maintenance of TRUE POWER. The men behind the government...

I agree with you in some regard. I think you may have noticed how my views have changed since I first posted in the political forums....which has been a year now. I see many things differently than I did then and it's really from what I've learned and read...not from what I've seen on television...although when I see something that I agree with I will usually post it here as you know.

In reality, it's the power of trans-national corporations and the controllers of world currency that have all of the control. The people have no real control...and this goes with any country. What I find shameful is that this country was built for freedom...although a bit flawed in it's inception at the time...especially due to slavery and women's rights.

I really believe that the first step to getting things back to normal is repealing NAFTA...this would put a nail in the giant corporations. Would it hurt us in the short run? Absolutely...but eventually jobs will come back.....enforce anti-trust laws.....let small businesses compete instead of being swallowed up by the giant corps.

I know I'm repeating myself...but many of the things that were already in place years ago worked well....although not perfect. Health care costs never used to be this high....and it wasn't because government controlled health care...because they didn't.

The problem with more government control is the same problem that coincides with big business....power and greed corrupts...always. I do not trust it....I don't trust either...which is why I think everything should be small...there should be no businesses to big to fail...and our government shouldn't be too big to fail as well.

Look at everything right now......both are too big to fail right now....and they most likely will fail.

And it's not that I'm against government...government is needed....it just needs to be limited. People need to have control. They don't have it right now.

Thanks David for your kindness...

Once again I think we agree almost to the T.

I think I am speaking to those who refuse to look at the entire picture, those who put the rich on a pedestal because they "earned it" and thus look upon misfortune or inequity as a result of laziness. By ideological default take the side of the EARNERS, therefore big business...

This very notion that is said on ATS more than I care to remember is the very key to many of our problems. You don't like the government... But you side with the economic policies of those who taint the government. The "conservative crisis" as it is coined is exactly this. ALL of my posts have been trying to express this idea, as you can see my frustration has many times allowed for me to miss the point and be an asshole.

HOW can anything change if the TRUE, CURRENT POWER IN AMERICA has an army of people who protect their power?

Our environment, or healthcare, the bills we receive are reflective of the money that
has infiltrated our government. SO what can be done if there are 100,000,000 Americans who still believe the trickle down myth, created to keep the earners
in pole position?

Real conservatives need to shed this myth, as it was only a creation of rich intending to get richer at the expense of everyone else.

reply to post by David9176


It is, our health care is nothing but for profits, but Obama proposal is not what this nation needs right now and we also don't need wal-mart 15 minute walk in clinics either.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by David9176

 

It is, our health care is nothing but for profits, but Obama proposal is not what this nation needs right now and we also don't need wal-mart 15 minute walk in clinics either.

Well I sure hope you or a loved one does not fall seriously ill before the thing we "need" arrives.
As the thing we need will never come because we will do this same dance ten years from now, SOCIALISMS and all. Mean while YOU pay twice as much as you should, which only further entrenches these interests only to buy more billboards, ad spots, creative agencies, marketing agencies, profilers, lawyers, lobbyists, stipends, congressmen, senators and signing bonus packages. Well worth the cost!!!

For all of you who might get some serious cancer one day, make sure to save up a couple of million, start now and be responsible,,,, not lazy people.

reply to post by mental modulator


And you think that having the bureaucracy telling me if I deserve health care and when is better?

Have you look into Obamas bill that is nothing more than copied by the one Kennedy came with?

Is unsustainable too expensive and it has nothing in common with the universal health care in other developing nations.

Whatever Obama is proposing is not what we need and its going to be a disaster when it falls short to the cost just to put it effect.

In America is too many interest groups and private agendas behind our nations politicians to make anything work for the people anymore.

reply to post by mental modulator


My friend my mother and father are on Medicaid right now, my father is 76 and my mother 66, in top of that my sister pays for private insurance for both of them so they don't get short on the Medicaid.

My husband and I have insurance so we also don't have to fall short on needed health care.

I am glad that we have a choice and is not forced upon us.

BTW my father have cancer already but he chose to avoid surgery, took one treatment, he already has lived over ten years with it

As a Canadian I can't even fathom this 'non-heathcare' system you live in, I guess we look at you like you are aliens in that regard. It is so simple, right in front of you, we have a lower population, fewer hospitals/clinics/doctors per-capita but still manage it.

If I was homeless and needed ongoing cancer treatments I would be cared for., day and night and even outpatient or other civil agencies.

I don't get it. Why all the stalling??? it must be intentional, there is no other way it cannot be.

Totally disgusting, the governement of a nation of peoples that claim to be the most civilized, smartest (chuckles) and richest in the world that treats it's citizens like third world. Amazing, truly amazing that you all tolerate it this long.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by mental modulator

 

And you think that having the bureaucracy telling me if I deserve health care and when is better?

Have you look into Obamas bill that is nothing more than copied by the one Kennedy came with?

Is unsustainable too expensive and it has nothing in common with the universal health care in other developing nations.

Whatever Obama is proposing is not what we need and its going to be a disaster when it falls short to the cost just to put it effect.

In America is too many interest groups and private agendas behind our nations politicians to make anything work for the people anymore.

Whos talking about Obama???

I don't think I mentioned any names for that matter... But I do know YOU and I pay twice as much as the next comparable care in the world. I also know my fathers three year cancer bill was over two million dollars, while having the best insurance money can buy. And you are probably right, there are too many crooked interests....
However I will take some progress never the less, do we see senators going without treatment on the public dime?

It can happen, but fear and the like will sink it again...

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by mental modulator

 

My friend my mother and father are on Medicaid right now, my father is 76 and my mother 66, in top of that my sister pays for private insurance for both of them so they don't get short on the Medicaid.

My husband and I have insurance so we also don't have to fall short on needed health care.

I am glad that we have a choice and is not forced upon us.

BTW my father have cancer already but he chose to avoid surgery, took one treatment, he already has lived over ten years with it

How would you not have a choice in the future???
In every nation with socialized medicine there are still private doctors.
All these little road blocks you have presented serve as a powerful weapon for this big business. You are one of their greatest keepers with this attitude,,, I am sure you will one day learn the hard way unfortunately... They will try to disqualify you, deny medication, deny treatment, etc all with trickery, manipulation.

And BTW the same bureaucrats that decide under the current system "BOARD OF TRUSTIES" would be the same group of bureaucrats that over under a federal plan.
The big difference would be in the procedure of payment, that is where the big difference would be. For heavens sake M the current proposals are all heavily modeled on UK, NZ, AU, Canadian models which are much more efficient.




Anyhow I don't wanna get into it with you Marg, I am tired and honestly I don't think you really ever care to understand the way proposed US gov healthcare would work.
The fact that you threw out the bureaucrat line like I said MARG that EXACT SAME BOARD would make the decisions on a case by case county and hospital level.



Glad to hear you father is fine - I will leave you with the thought of paying $60,000 a month for 60 pills....

Lets see....with this plan does WalMart have to pay for health care for their employees?

Originally posted by earthman4
I hated to see the mom and pop stores die but I killed them. You killed them too. Walmart is just a better place to buy stuff in the modern world. Yes, they can have a heart. Hate Walmart if you must but know it is controlled by people who are not as evil as you would imagine. We shopped there and killed the mom and pop shop. I can see them doing things that would hurt their bottom line just to be human. Just to be part of a brave new world.

I did not kill the mom and pop store...I am not a walmart shopper. I loathe walmart. My spouse passed up a promotion at work because it meant working on the walmart acoount. Could not do it. Wal mart is the antithesis to American ingenuity and service. Wal mart in no way uplifts the human dignity of the person...quite the opposite.

Wal mart of course supports obamas socialized medical care because all of its employees are so poor they will qualify.

reply to post by mental modulator


My friend when my father was on his treatment one pill was a 1000 dollars.

And yes insurance did pay for it.

Still it was his choice to stop.

Anyway one thing is proposal and another when the actual time to make things work it may not be as peachy as what is proposed, see, you can not trust government when it comes to promises.



[edit on 3-7-2009 by marg6043]

Liberal democrats love obama and love to hate Wal*Mart.

Now they are allies.

For liberal democrats after this news - what to do, what to do???

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by mental modulator

 

My friend when my father was on his treatment one pill was a 1000 dollars.

And yes insurance did pay for it.

Still it was his choice to stop.

Anyway one thing is proposal and another when the actual time to make things work it may not be as peachy as what is proposed, see, you can not trust government when it comes to promises.

[edit on 3-7-2009 by marg6043]

That is one pill Marg, 1 pill, amongst others, 2 pills being 2,000 and the may other pills being $600.... That is $2,600 a day - $26,000 every ten days - $260,000 every one hundred days... TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS - Most of you guys could buy a house for that.... By weight these pills would be worth thousand times more than gold??? That makes sense to you??? BY WEIGHT, exponentially more valuable than GOLD

It was his choice to stop - are you making this a GOP style - "WELL YOU HAVE A CHOICE" - thing MARG??? It sounds like "you make the choice not to eat when you are homeless", "you make a choice to get rapped when you are drunk" and the like...... I dare you to tell me your doing that Marg...

You compare things you really should not...

My father had a tumor in his head the size of a grapefruit, it destroyed his balance, sight, motor skills, he could not walk properly, he developed blood clots, often battled phenomena, urinary tract infections, kidney infections, he had seizures everyday for three years... His choice was to fight, in which he lived for three years beyond expectations. In that time well over ten people our family have known have died from lesser forms. So it sounds to me your father is atypical, which does nothing for developing a real world view on this subject.

If you suggest charging a man +$2,000,000 AFTER insurance
then I don't think I really care much about your opinion anymore. Your position
only allows for this circumstance to continue and by proxy, as YOU help keep the system in place that corrupts the government. Like I said you will learn the hard way unfortunately and I will support taking your alleged CHOICE away.

It is also very funny that you did not try to flex ANY knowledge about the system, less what that bought politicians funnel out to keep the system in place. Yet you fail to see that the line about CHOICE is purely developed by lobbyists, the industry and the according political sellouts.

Choice - nothing like targeting peoples pride to keep the old rusted chains on Marg.



[edit on 4-7-2009 by mental modulator]

[edit on 4-7-2009 by mental modulator]

reply to post by mental modulator


Don't get me wrong, mental modulator, my father have no only Medicare because of his age but he is also a war veteran and he can use veterans facilities.

The choice to stop was due to results of the treatments on his body and he didn't like how he was feeling.

See for a person like him that even with the cancer and his age he doesn't' suffer from high blood pressure or cholesterol he is very active and other wise in great health.

Now,I will love for this nation to be able to offer to its citizens an universal health care we are due to one a long time ago.

But, what is been offered by Obama and its entourage of supporters in Democrat party is a far cry of what other nations universal health care is.

Remember this nation is in big trouble, economically, financially and we are all feeling the pinch.

Until the nation recovers and this present administration learns to stop financing the wealthy holders of the nation and stop increasing government and spending like a drunken sailor an endeavor like the one he is proposing with his version of health care is bound to fail.

Why? because the tax revenue of the nation has been cut almost in half due to the increasing unemployment and not light at the end of the tunnel.

If this nation can not generate enough money to support the 1 trillion plus that this health care is going to cost and growing then from where the money is going to come.

And when the economy keeps getting worst how this health care is going to support itself.

See my point, the health care been proposed is not what we need and the time for venture like this one is not right either.

But that we need an universal health is plus, but we need also to keep the private agendas and interest groups off of it.

reply to post by mental modulator


Don't get mad at me for my stance my friend, like I said we need an universal health care but not the one its been proposed.

We need lobbyist, interest groups and private agendas away from it, but you will never be able to have that with the way politics are played in this nation.

So again don't be mad at me for my opinion because I base most of my view in the financial situation facing this nation also.