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Originally posted by verylowfrequency
There are plenty of Wealthy people that are good people and there are plenty of poor people who are greedy.
We have a pretty good system in the U.S. and most of the Western world, as you can grow up in a poor or working class family and become wealthy if you work hard enough or get lucky.
Originally posted by In nothing we trust
Originally posted by verylowfrequency
There are plenty of Wealthy people that are good people and there are plenty of poor people who are greedy.
We have a pretty good system in the U.S. and most of the Western world, as you can grow up in a poor or working class family and become wealthy if you work hard enough or get lucky.
I think the people most likely to succeed in America and perhaps others parts of the world will do so using deceit. You must be very lucky and/or talented to succeed. It has always been so. I just watched a documentary about Nickla Tesla and Thomas Edison. Edison stole Teslas ideas and then attempted to keep Tesla from succeeding elsewhere.
Those who already clawed thier way to the top use deceit to keep people from changing thier place in society. You must be very well connected to succeed.
See the difference.
Class mobility has always been an issue.
Hinduism kept people in thier place using the caste system.
Communism kept people in thier place using fear and intimidation.
Fuedalism kept people in thier place by force.
[edit on 28-6-2009 by In nothing we trust]
Originally posted by Jakes51
Money is not the cause of deceit and treachery. Deep down in one's inner core is where deceit lives. The deceit and treachery is what one does with the money. Deceit can arise from one using their monetary gains to wage war, murder, soliciting prostitutes, scam people (pyramid & ponzi schemes), purchase drugs and alcohol in excess, and there are many other results of human depravity from money.
Money can be used to do a lot of good such as feeding the hungry, building a water purification plant in the 3rd world, purchasing a education for a person not of the means of doing it for themselves and others . . . My whole outlook on money is this; how much does one really need to survive? In my opinion, all one really needs is sustenance, a roof for themself and their family, and clothes on their backs. So we use money as another excuse for mistreatment of others, when it isn't the money at all; it is the person.
"America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain't no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and thereforre more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters...
"...Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for an American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say, Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves."
Originally posted by silent thunder
"The thing about money, Bud...it makes you do things ya don't wanna do."
-Wall Street
Well. I've been poor, richer than most Americans, and everywhere in between. All I can say is that at every level there is fear, lust, greed, and evil swarming around the topic of money. I believe most of the poor spend more time agonizing about money in a sense...first of all you've got to work like hell to get the tiniest scrap of it, there is never enough, day-to-day you worry about things the richer people take for granted. Psychologically, poor Americans hate themselves, as Kurt Vonnegut so eloquently described in Mother Night:
"America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain't no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and thereforre more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters...
"...Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for an American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say, Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves."
Once you move up the ladder your immediate needs are satitiated and that nagging psychological self-hate abates in most people...but its still there like an evil jack-in-the-box ready to pop out. Even many of the very richest are insecure, living on the edge, gambling and one false move away from losing everything...and they know it. The more "stable rich" become smug and self-secure, or lost in their own worlds, perhaps surrounded by fawners and hangers-on...its almost like a form of senility. they may feel more secure yet become divorced from reality. And often the money tears families apart, pits brother against brother and father against son. Substance abuse is another ugly pitfall of the very wealthy...you can go on the "party circuit" and if you can afford it you can lose your body, mind and soul all at once.
Bottom line: Money is ugly and causes pain at all levels. Period.
Originally posted by silent thunder
So to make 70% of the population insane enough to go along with this carnival from hell you've got to literally make them insane.
Originally posted by redoubt
"America is a very deceitful place. It seems as if everything is a lie and everyone is a lier. Even those who have no money are deceitful, they are just not capable of hiding thier deceit, because they tend to be stupider."
Your own prejudices soil what might otherwise be a good bit of observation. In fact, greed and dishonesty infect every corner of humanity.
Our history... one that predates America by thousands of years, show that the desire to gain material wealth breeds dishonesty and indeed, even murder. We covet those things we do not have and will jealously take what we can not acquire honestly.
The undeniable truth is that our species as a whole carries greed and envy as natural imperfections.
Originally posted by ldyserenity
I don't necessarily think money lust breeds decietfulness, however the people who control the money...Ie. the government I do beleive in their control over this aspect of all of our lives, rich or poor, they have been decietful ...
Originally posted by ldyserenity
Almost all those things you mentioned, except Hinduism, are government factions; and really Hinduism became the governing authority there, so am I wrong?
... am I wrong in blaming the governement whom controls the money and where it goes?
Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
The benefits of having money outweigh the personal satisfaction of telling the truth 100% of the time - that MANY people would go through with even the smallest of crimes to make a fortune.
I think the biggest challenge in life is knowing when to dodge, hit, and run.
Hitting all the time wears you out and will make you collapse.
Dodging all the time gets you nowhere.
Running also gets you nowhere.
But, a combination of all 3 will get you somewhere, and the better combo for whatever situation, the farther you will get (money wise).
The fact is, there are not many nice people in the world, and the majority are "mean". While I do not prefer being the "mean" one, on some subjects, you must treat everyone that way.
To much lenience and you fall, and to much greed and you end up stealing from yourself.
Originally posted by helen670
You know, it never really occurred to me to say this small but very Significant Scrpture ..... if an Angel of darkness(Demon) was to appear in his dark form, then people(some)would FEAR this form of Darkness because he stood for EVIL...True?
So, in order for this Angel to be accepted by the person, the Angel then transforms himself into an Angel of Light!
Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light (II Cor. 11:14)
How very much to the truth,of that Scripture is in todays world!
Mark 3:26
And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come.
Luke 11:18
If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? I say this because you claim that I drive out demons by Beelzebub.