UK: Jail Time for Revving Engine in a Racist Manner

reply to post by stumason


Stumason, it sounds like your system is pretty broken to me. He either gets to pay the optional fine= penalty, or be forced to wait in jail for two days so he can prove whether or not he is innocent=penalty.

What I see is you have an option between two penalties, and you didn't even get to prove your innocence yet. Pay the fine by pleading guilty, or lose time you can never get back, just to prove you aren't guilty. A penalty to prove that you aren't guilty....

Sorry but, in a system like that, the police have the power to bully the average citizen. I don't know about the UK, but that is one of those things where wrongful arrest might be at hand.

Arresting a person because some one else claimed they revved their engine? If that is enough to arrest a person, well then god forbid you get on the bad side of your neighbors, you might spend a weekend in jail for "disturbing the peace"...

[edit on 27-6-2009 by grimreaper797]

Wow coming ever closer to the "You can arrested for breathing at the Wrong Moment Law." These cops should be fined and fired completely useless I say. I live basically in the median of the road and I do get
mad sometimes because some morons here have their radios turned up way to loud but how in the world can you be arrested for your engine revving in a racist manner? Last time I checked cars weren't capable
of that unless it's some twisted form of Knight Rider lol.

[edit on 10-04-08 by Beach Bum]

[edit on 10-04-08 by Beach Bum]

reply to post by grimreaper797


Again, missing the point. He was apparently arrested for swearing at the Police when they came round to talk to him about the complaint. He wasn't arrested for the complaint itself.

Also, like I said, it is unusual he spent the whole weekend in jail waiting for a JP on Monday. In England, at least, you'd be released under Police bail to appear in court. I'd hedge a bet and say there is a little more to the story than what is reported. Maybe the guy has previous? Maybe he was a complete arse in custody?

Like i said, when i was nicked, I spent 4 hrs in the station where I was given free roam to go in and out of my cell to use the toilet or go for a smoke. They even got me a McD's. Although I never once swore and treated the Police politely. I was then bailed to appear at court at a later date. Scotland is different though.

Although I do agree that "revving your engine in a racist manner" is utter BS, the rest of the story needs to taken into account before jumping on the "UK is a Police State" bandwagon.

reply to post by AngelInterceptor


He was charged though. Miss that bit, did we? If you're charged, you can be held in Police custody until such time as you appear in court.

Originally posted by stumason
He was charged though. Miss that bit, did we? If you're charged, you can be held in Police custody until such time as you appear in court.

He was charged for a BS reason.

The police should not have been at his house to confront him about revving his engine. I don't blame him for telling the cops to F off. People have a right to live their life without being baited by the law.

To me, what the cops did was entrapment. They suckered him to his response.

At least most of the responses in this thread can understand how he's been completely victimised by a corrupt system. Yes, it is a police state.

reply to post by tezzajw


Not really. He wasn't forced into swearing, was he?

Swearing at a Police officer is guaranteed to get you a Section 5 warning, followed by an arrest if you persist.

He obviously did it more than once, as the law states warnings must be given before you can be arrested. Serves him right, to be honest. He didn't have to swear at the Police, did he? He could have told them to get on their bike without being vulgar.

This is a seperate issue than the BS of "revving in a racist manner", which was dropped by the prosecutors. I agree that one cannot rev your car in a racist manner, but swearing at Police officers is just idiotic.

EDIT: Calling the UK a police state is just displaying ignorance as to what an actual police state is like. Iran and NK are good examples. The UK is nowhere close.

[edit on 28/6/09 by stumason]

Originally posted by stumason
Swearing at a Police officer is guaranteed to get you a Section 5 warning, followed by an arrest if you persist.

Poor police men... weren't they warned when they were going in to the academy that people might swear at them some day. Especially when they knock on doors to tell people that they were revving their engines too loud and in a racist manner.

You can't legislate against people being obnoxious.

See this is the contradiction with the entire (il)legal/(in)justice system: I can turn on my TV any night and hear the F word over and over again. I can hear comedians use the F word for laughs, often against politicians. Yet, when a cop has the F word used against him, he's able to make an arrest! It's BS!

Originally posted by stumason
EDIT: Calling the UK a police state is just displaying ignorance as to what an actual police state is like. Iran and NK are good examples. The UK is nowhere close.

In case you've missed it, the whole world is a police state. The only thing that differs is the degree to which we all suffer from it. Some countries are more advanced with their testing than others are.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by tezzajw

 

Alot of people are remanded in custody pending trial, let alone kept in a cell over the weekend waiting to see a magistrate. It happens in the UK, it happens in the US and I damn well guarantee it happens in Oz. It all depends on the nature of the offence, the accused's previous record and their likelihood to abscond or offend again.

But this ignores the question..What exactly was the offense here?

The only reason an officer of the law would force someone in jail for a couple days, pending trial, is if you pissed him/her off by directly insulting them or cussing at them in an inappropriate way. But who wouldn't have cussed in this instance? Is this not a valid argument? I mean, how ridiculous is it when the law can be dictated and twisted in such a subjective way just because a police officer has a bad case of the Mondays? Pretty sad.

Revving your engine in a racist manner? Who even knows that these were muslims? Who even knows if the muslims ever existed in the first place? Anyone with a Lotus getting pulled over by some bored, krispy kreme police officer is going to be just as mad as someone driving a 1985 VW rabbit. But if you had a 1985 VW Rabbit, would you have even gotten in trouble for revving your engine? PROBABLY NOT!

Thus, alot of this had to do with the fact that this was a guy with a Lotus. People with a Lotus can't rev the engine? How would a police officer even know if the Revving of this engine is even meant to be "racist" to begin with? If I had a Lotus, I'd sure as heck rev that bad boy!

So, what is racist about revving a powerful engine while driving by a couple of muslims? When I was in the Air Force, I was stationed in Oman for 112 days in support of Operation Southern Watch (This was 11 years ago). Just about every other car on the road was a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Lotus, Mercedes, whatever. Muslims have nice cars too you know! And alot of them don't even have to work. I just don't get it.

-ChriS

[edit on 28-6-2009 by BlasteR]

reply to post by tezzajw


Hence why when you watch such programmes, they have to warn you in advance of said vulgarity. If they do not, they are open to sanction. If someone swears at you in public, you have the right to make a complaint.

The Police often use the law to stop people swearing as it is a slippy slope. Once coppers start getting swore at, they'll be disrespected further, possibly leading to violence.

Usually, a section 5 warning is enough to stop bad language and most people then co-operate with the police. If they let it continue, that person may become more agitated and put themselves or others at risk.

Although I do not find such language offensive, I also do not wish to hear it everywhere I go. I have two young children for starters. I do not think it is a bad thing that being a twat in a public place is an offence. Maybe you might like to live in a world where people can do and say whatever they please, regardless of who is around them, but most people would find such behaviour unacceptable. What you do in your own home is one thing, but in public is another thing entirely.

[edit on 28/6/09 by stumason]

Originally posted by BlasteR
But this ignores the question..What exactly was the offense here?

They went round his home because a complaint was made. They may not even had planned to arrest him, but they have to do something about the complaint, even if it is lip-service. For them to then swore at is the offence committed, not the revving of the engine. I've mentioned that a few times now...

I can see your point Stumason but still this guy was just trying to mind his own business it seems and some people made a bogus charge. It happens here too and we still call it b.s.

reply to post by stumason


He tells a retired police officer (civilian) to "FU*% OFF" and that is worthy of a complaint?

How do the police even know whether or not this old retired guy even knew what he was talking about? For all they know, the driver of the Lotus told the truth.

I'm aware that the charge of racism was, basically, thrown out.

I guess all I'm saying is that the law is flawed when someone can simply "claim" to have witnessed a racist intimidation taking place, yet they can still be tried for that.

Maybe he just told off a retired police officer and the police officer filed a complaint against him because he was mad about it. From what I gather, the only reason he was pulled from his residence and put in a cell for the weekend was because the "muslim" couple in the case came forward as witnesses for the court trial.. And then they argued in court that they were being purposefully annoyed by the guy in the Lotus. But how do they even know that? How is there even any evidence to suggest it was a deliberate act?

We really do live in different worlds..

Sometimes, there really are just big misunderstandings. I think this is one of those times. He probably shouldn't have cursed at anyone, but if you were accused of doing X, Y, and Z by a civilian without even knowing what that civilian is talking about, wouldn't you?

The Lotus driver sais..

"The police kept me in custody over the weekend because I made the mistake of swearing at a senior officer."

But wasn't this "senior officer" actually a retired civilian (thus, not even a senior officer of any kind)? That's what I'm getting from all this.

-ChriS

[edit on 28-6-2009 by BlasteR]

Yay another I hate cops thread! Whoo hoo!

The COMPLAINT was that he revved his engine in a racist manner. The CHARGE was breaching the peace for being a douche bag and telling the cop to F off.

You know people, the police are actually allowed to do their job. Shesh oh Pete.

And he was being detained awaiting arraignment. Sorry but it happens, you get picked up on Friday night, you probably will spend two days till Monday morning waiting for the judge. Sorry to burst your bubble but they can detain you, have been able to do so for quite a while.

I don't know what the law is in the UK but here in the states you can be held without charge for up to 72 hours.

he got fined 150 quid for his potty mouth. OHHH such bad officers. How dare they uphold the law and arrest this ass hole.

here in the states they would have beaten and tazered him then arrested him. I think he got off lucky.

reply to post by whatukno


This is true. And you can also be arrested by a civilian in the form of a citizen's arrest (probably just depending on which state you're in). I don't know of this ever happening to anyone though. Generally, people respect the uniform and the gun. People don't really respect other civilians (at least not in this way). If you told somebody you were going to arrest them for X, you'd probably get your butt kicked like that guy in "Paul Blart Mall Cop".

-ChriS

[edit on 28-6-2009 by BlasteR]

Originally posted by whatukno


You know people, the police are actually allowed to do their job. Shesh oh Pete.

Yea, just dont take their picture in the UK, I think I heard youll get in trouble for that.

reply to post by BlasteR


He wasn't retired he was off duty and in civilian clothes.

Unless I missed the part where its mentioned the cop was retired. I have read both articles a few times, but as it is late I might have missed it.

reply to post by BlasteR


Well as this is about police powers, let's stick to that subject shall we?

Listen, the people that made the complaint were in the wrong, they saw racism, where none existed. They selfishly evaluated themselves as a persecuted people expecting threats and violence wherever they turned.

A man driving a sports car revved his engine. Now has there been a time when someone in a sports car has done the same that made you feel a little uncomfortable? A little threatened? It happens. Your in your hoopdie and some jerk in a car you can never wish to afford waltzes up beside you and gives his engine a good gunning. Whether innocent or not it makes you self conscious about your own particular form of transportation.

They feeling wronged, for some god knows reason reported him to the police, the police at this time had to been saying to themselves. "Oh for F sake, do we have to follow up on this bull [snip]?" But as civil servants they must. It is their job to protect the peace. So they go to the guy to ask about it.

Now hotrod x wants to be a jerk to the police, and they respond by thinking to themselves, ok this jerk wants to make a mountain out of a molehill, lets give him one. And they haul his but into the klink.

Moral of this story is...

Don't be an ass! Don't see racism where there isn't any, and for all that is decent in the world control your potty mouth around men that can legally haul your expletive spouting head into the slammer. This is all about respect, or lack of it. And both parties involved were wrong.

Unfortunately a hot headed Scotsman had to take a couple days in the lockup to learn a valuable lesson in being nicer to people.

It's a good thing the poor guy wasn't driving a Pinto, the judge probably would have gven him a year.

Originally posted by whatukno
Now hotrod x wants to be a jerk to the police, and they respond by thinking to themselves, ok this jerk wants to make a mountain out of a molehill, lets give him one. And they haul his but into the klink.
Moral of this story is...

Moral of the story is that the cops were out of line.

They shouldn't have made a mountain of a molehill, recognising that there are far more cases that demand their time. They should have established that there was no case to investigate and let him be.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by stumason
He was charged though. Miss that bit, did we? If you're charged, you can be held in Police custody until such time as you appear in court.

He was charged for a BS reason.

The police should not have been at his house to confront him about revving his engine. I don't blame him for telling the cops to F off. People have a right to live their life without being baited by the law.

I have a good idea of what happened here. It happened to me the other day.

These people called the police... gave their complaint, and then, like any citizen would expect, instead of ignoring the concerns of these citizens, they followed up on it. The police did not know what to expect, but figured they'd follow up and get the other side of the story... and when they got there... this guy didn't have any tolerance for them... and so things got ugly. In the end, it was his fault.

My story... My phone was acting up recently (I've since had it fixed) and I had a knock at my door.... there was a police man out front, and this was the exchange:

Me: "Hello?"
Officer:"We got a 911 hangup call from this address... is everything ok?"
Me: Looking surprised "Uh... yeah..."
Officer: "Do you mind if I verify that?"
Me: "No not at all..."
Officer: "Are you the only one here?"
Me: "No my wife's over there..." I point at the kitchen table as I back up and invite him in.... he enters cautiously and sees my wife sitting in front of her laptop at the table... he becomes a bit more relaxed as he gets a perspective on what's going on
Me: "We've been having some problems with the phone, I wonder if that had anything to do with it?"
Officer:" We tried to call it back and there was no answer"

I asked him to call it again, and sure enough there was no ring... I picked it up and there was dialtone.... He suggested I get the phone fixed, and said "Well at least no one was hurt". And he left.

This other guy wasn't quite as obliging as I was, and so ended up with a completely different situation...

[edit on 28-6-2009 by HunkaHunka]