It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
(visit the link for the full news article)
Qur’an 4.89 ... seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
Qur’an 5:51 “Muslims, do not make friends with any but your own people.”
Qur’an 8:12 cp. 8:60 “Instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers”; “smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them”
Qur’an 2:191 “...kill the disbelievers wherever we find them”
Qur’an 8:55 Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve.
Qur’an 4:78 “Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in towers built up strong and high! If some good befalls, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ but if evil, they say, ‘This is from you (Muhammad).’ Say: ‘All things are from Allah.’ So what is wrong with these people, that they fail to understand these simple words?”
Originally posted by darkangel831
No matter where you go, you can always find someone that will tell you how you should be living, what you should be thinking and whom you should be loving..
Books are books...
It's all in what you believe.
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
And fight in the way of God those who fight you, but do not aggress: God loves not the aggressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are those who reject Him: They will not believe.
Another thing that irks me is the use of the term "moderate muslim", as if it is something different from normal Islam, and "extremist muslim", as if it is something that could be connected to Islam (not saying the OP is doing it, just an observation).
One of the many names for Islam is "The Middle Way" (the path between two extremes), and this is illustrated throughout the scriptures- muslims are obviously not allowed to go down the path of pure "this-wordliness", they can't go and become monks secluded from the rest of humanity.
Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by john124
Oh...I apologise. I thought we were having a reasoned debate about whether the Quran is inheritantly[sic] evil. I'd assume such a discussion would require a reasonable perusal of said book, along with what the book defines and lays out as "the religion of Islam".
I didn't realise you were going on page-long rhetoric along the lines of:
"The quran is violent
Yeah, the quran is violent
Oh, and the Quran is violent
The Quran is "bull#"
Fiction, Fairytales, delusions, confusion."
Every claim I made (including the title of "the middle way") is backed up by the text of the Quran. Every claim you made is laced with "IMO". If you feel it beneath yourself to read the Quran, it is fairly absurd for you to (pretend to?) discuss it's inherent evilness.
Anyhow, carry on!
[edit on 26-6-2009 by babloyi]
Originally posted by john124
Religions get a free ride, why should they not be criticised. We can criticise politicians, sports players etc...
Originally posted by john124
I was hoping you'd provide a worthwhile argument against what I have provided.
I've backed up my claims with quotes from the quran of words with obvious meanings.
You quote random stories as fact, quite different.
Numbers 21.24 (RSV) And Isreal slew him with the edge of the sword, and took possession of his land from the Arnon to the Jabbok, as far as to the Ammonites; for Jazer was the boundary of the Ammonites.
Numbers 21.32 (RSV) And Moses sent to spy out Jazer; and they took its villages, and dispossessed the Amorites that were there.
Numbers 21.35 (RSV) So they slew him, and his sons, and all his people, until there was not one survivor left to him; and they possessed his land.
Numbers 31.7 (RSV) They warred against Midian, as the Lord commanded Moses, and slew every male.
Numbers 33.42 (RSV) then you shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you...
For it was the Lord's doing to harden their hearts that they should come against Israel in battle, in order that they should be utterly destroyed, and should receive no mercy but be exterminated...
Deuteronomy 13.10 You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the Lord your God.
Deuteronomy 13.15 you shall surely put the inhabitants of that city to the sword, destroying it utterly, all who are in it and its cattle, with the edge of the sword.
Deuteronomy 17.12 The man who acts presumptuously, but not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the Lord you God, or the judge, that man shall die...
Deuteronomy 21.21 Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones...