good and evil does not exist

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I was listening to Zignew speak about how iran is divided into 2 classes, both nationalistic he says but one side wants democracy (tolerance) the other wants the hard line of good and evil. Yet lets look at it fairly.

And lets define Good and Evil.

but first i must say that we see good things come from evil things such as war and killing. This involves deception, killing, and theft. Yet out of it comes for the survivers what they perceive as good, life with freedom from those they hated.

those that call themselves Good based on there beliefs are committing an act of treason against reality when they use a God to say they are justified in there actions such as belittlements, fear mongering, killing, torchure and media slander.

Good- A deed or outcome which can be described as benficial perspectively

Evil- An act which benefits the few and destroys the many, or a deception which leads to some form of destruction.

this is my own descreiption, i think that when the world gets over itself it will realise the hatred the religious / zealotous hard liners hold towards people with different experiences in this life, such as sex drugs or taboo. we will stop to think and in that thought realize it was all the same, and evil and good are definitions which stem from not knowing reality in full perspectively.

The opposite of evil is righteous and both are just opinions someone has.

Other than that it's all good.

form what i commonly see in most depiction of good and evil is that evil is the opiste of what you are.

the Nazis, which are most arguably the most evil group in history cliamed that they were doing good. morality is what ever we define it is and in my opinion it comes to the methods that some one uses to achive there goals not what the goals are them selves that are deamed good or evil.

That's why I prefer ethics to morality. Morality is easily modified by priests, man of power. Ethics, not work ethics, but true, never changing ancient ethics should be used to define good and evil, and does it quite well. As the OP stated, good is performing good deeds that are universally accepted (not by one group).

But good and bad... those are only names, mostly used by religious zealots to justify their lust for violence and definitions of those change too rapidly.

In general language is a foul tool when it comes to defining things.

Good does exist. I think what you are trying to say is that just because you are able to point out the evil things others do, does not mean you yourself are by default the "good".

In fact, when you look at many conflicts you will find that the 2 sides are actually just alike in action. The only difference is they are on opposite sides. As a result, each ends up playing the evil for the other side. Meanwhile in reality both sides are just hypocrites.

And the only way we can see the hypocrisy is if we look at things from both perspectives. Not just from our own side, but we need to put ourselves in the position of the other side. How would I feel if someone was doing those things to me. Like Iraq for example, how would we feel if another country was doing that to us? When we do that, then we can see the errors in our own ways and fix the problem. And we can also tell the other side to do the same, and hopefully they can fix the problem on their end too.

But as long as they refuse to do so, they will continue to point out the errors in the other people and continue on with the hypocrisy using their errors as excuses.

This topic is 100% covered in the bible by Jesus, all of it from the hypocrisy, to those doing things in the name of god etc, and how to look at peoples actions rather than what they claim to be, and all in 1 chapter.

Even if someone isn't a Christian or whatever, they can still understand it. It even mentions that just because someone does thing in the name of something doesn't mean they actually are, and he addresses people who will do that as well.

Matthew 7

2000 years later, and people still don't get it. And it doesn't really have anything to do with religion either, it should be common sense.

reply to post by badmedia


I get it i think which is why i posted this one.

What im saying is that good and evil are from pain and pleasure. Which to me signify a misinterpretation. Because other things can be used to achieve similar states of pain or pleasure.

Evil brings pain or pleasure. Shooting someone brings pain, drugging yourself to absentia and apathy- perceived pleasure still evil because you give in to your own weakness, as in shooting someone you give in to anger, another weakness.

but then you get deeper into the cross points. hypothetical here: A robber steals and kills a family member. The family, says the robber is evil out of anger. and has him locked up for a meager 5 years..yet the killing did something good for the family, it brought them closer together. In the spirit of the missing family. So while good and evil define situationals. It never really existed as more than a perceived state to something complex.

Thats my point that scientificly Good and Evil are irrelevent to the human condition. Jesus I think saw this and conveyed it in his own way.

Sin and rightiousness are different as well. Sin to me is rather transgression. When ever you wrong a person or God. That is sin. Basicly its spiritual. Demeaning, belittling, enslaving, tricking for gain. We have all done it. Other than that all I can view in the world is contrived legalists using the aura of misunderstanding to make laws and rules which serve a false cause, for problems caused by criminals who transgress others so often the confusion level rises, false hopes are sewn and the people hence forth fall in there mental capacities for tolerance. Then the devil has you accusing each other for nothing when the things you find wrong in life have been done for centuries by every tribe and are quite ok as long as it is in love and respect. I would imagine.

Im not calling good evil and evil good by the way. I m separating the tangled wires on the floor. who knows where this one leads to? Oh its speaker b. See what im getting at? Our society is to tough on itself and religions are too tough on community. The division of Christ is to save the sinners, from the self rightious who think they can kill at will those who live normally. Repression and denial are forms of self deception regarding any human condition.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by mastermind77]

[edit on 26-6-2009 by mastermind77]

There are actions that promote growth and those that inhibit it. There are words that promote understanding and those that retard it. These are the foundations of good and evil. The intentions we have is the house we build on such a foundation.

The purpose of life is not pleasure or pain... but understanding how and why these feelings exist. From the perspective of one life everything would seem disconnected and illogical... but it all makes sense.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by Wertdagf]

reply to post by mastermind77


Well, I do agree it is about perspective. However, it is that peoples perspectives on what is good and what is evil that is confused. This is why you must look at things from the other persons shoes, in order to gain more/better perspective. When you look at it from both sides, then you can see how one's pleasure came from the other's pain, and so then they can see that action is evil.

I disagree with you on the robber. What you are saying is that the ends justify the means. However, more true is that the means define the ends. The family could have come together for other reasons, and just as likely the person the robber killed could have been someone who kept the family together.

So, we look at things on an individual basis. The actions of the robber were in fact wrong. We can see that clearly. That things happened after that can be considered good is not of consequence.

Now, there is however a level of things where evil actually serves the purpose of good. GWB for example "woke me up". I disagree with him, would never support what he did, but it was those actions that made me take a good hard look at things. I would have to thank him for that truly. And seeing the evil makes us look for the good and so forth. So there is a level where evil serves the good. Can't understand hot without cold, light without darkness and so forth. It helps us understand and gain wisdom, but in that wisdom we should be able to recognize good actions from bad actions.

As such, regardless of how it may end up I personally could never contribute or support evil actions. And that is what I look at, their actions/fruits.

If you love something, you will set it free. If it loves you then it comes back. So, if we are infriging on peoples free will, then we are basically messing up. That is the basis and understanding behind what is evil and what is not. Evil to infringe on anothers free will, and that includes keeping them ignorant, or murder of the mind.

It's generally a slippery slope IMO when we start talking about the level where evil serves the purpose of good. I understand it etc, but I don't generally like to talk about it too much, as it is easy for people to get confused in it all, and I think in this world we need a bit more good than evil. Seems that area is plum full.




[edit on 26-6-2009 by badmedia]

Good does exist fully. People can be "good". By not sinning. That makes you "Good".

Evil on the other doesnt exist. Einstein proved this theory when discussing that Darkness doesnt exist.

Evil is only the Absence of Good. IT isnt a thing or way of life or kind of people. It is the absence of something. Same as Darkness is only the absence of light.

reply to post by ShadowLife


You could just as easily say good is a lack of evil couldn't you? As evil things are actions in themselves.

Originally posted by ShadowLife
Good does exist fully. People can be "good". By not sinning. That makes you "Good".

Evil on the other doesnt exist. Einstein proved this theory when discussing that Darkness doesnt exist.

Evil is only the Absence of Good. IT isnt a thing or way of life or kind of people. It is the absence of something. Same as Darkness is only the absence of light.

But see my point underlying is that sin and evil, and good and rightiousness, are human created perceptual action perception. Meaning its not action that defines but rather perception. We say well theres a moral gradient of standards etc..
are there? are they not self created invention of the human condition over time. i mean if everything humans do to each other, never hurt or killed anyone, if no one complained then nothing we do could be evil. Until we experience pain and label something evil or good.

So good and evil are defined by our perception and understanding from a narrow aspect of lack of experience, from pain and pleasure. Those that judge others in self rightiousness of God or jesus or whatever other names..

are doing a dis-service to the human race by furthering the cause of false divides for power or money using nuanced white lies they even believe because they refuse to admit wrongs on there own stubborn hearts. And accuse, use, judge, manipulate in the name of God of course.

[edit on 26-6-2009 by mastermind77]

[edit on 26-6-2009 by mastermind77]

reply to post by mastermind77


I think it's a result of putting yourself in the shoes of others, and being able to see that if the action was being done against you, then you wouldn't like it.

It is true you wouldn't know the difference if not for the experience of pain and so forth. However, we do experience it and so we do know the difference. As we are able to understand that, then we are able to understand good from evil.

How can you understand hot without cold? You couldn't. You could always be a certain temperature, you could always be either hot or cold, but until you've experienced both, you can not understand what they really mean, or what the difference is. Does that mean hot and cold do not exist?

As we are able to understand the difference, then it should be used. And to understand and have such knowledge, and then use it is the definition of wisdom. To make good judgments based on our understandings.

If you look in the bible for example, it talks about the tree of knowledge, learning both good and evil, and that the tree will make one wise. And so that is what this experience is. Doesn't matter if one is religious or not, we can understand good and evil and gain understanding of it, that is true.

But if you want to go to "higher" levels of things, then you realize death is not real and so forth, and that all we experience we have agreed too. So on this level such is true, but it's a slippery slope because we are still here for a reason and to learn such lessons.

There is a difference between judging others and making good judgments for ourselves(wisdom). We shouldn't judge others, and it does suit the purpose you mention to further divide us. But that is not the same thing as making good judgments in our actions. And when we judge others, then we ourselves are normally doing bad things, like you mention. It is felt those actions are "justified" and so forth.

You can't really fight "evil" by doing "evil" actions. You just add to the evil, and the greater evil wins out, and evil "grows". But people think they are justified, and so it's not evil, and that goes to further divide people. As the other side will see the evil the side puts out, and so they think they are also "justified" in their actions. And so that divides them. Each side thinks they are "good", but yet their actual actions are "evil". Eventually people just have to say enough is enough and start looking at the actions themselves.

Big bowl of duality/hypocrisy is what that stuff is. Not disagreeing there.

Personally, I think such is the real deception of this world. Getting people to think they are on the "good" side, and thus justified in doing "evil" things, which actually contributes to the evil in this world.





[edit on 26-6-2009 by badmedia]