Are people/men naturally sexist to women?

Originally posted by AhabstarBut to bring up the old toilet seat argument, if it is down we lift it up and don't complain. You know you need it down, so you should always check that it is down. For me personally, I always keep it closed (and yes, guys, you would not believe the amount of grief I caught over that) So to women everywhere I say, don't be lazy when it comes to having to pee.

Both the seat AND the lid should be down before you flush. I am not a germaphobe, but once I read that everytime we flush the toilet the room gets misted in bacteria I have since made it a habit to lower the lid.

That fixes the problem for both genders. Both have to raise the lid each time. Nice and fair.

I am always surprised in some way at the number of misogynist in this world. Either way, we need each other, men and women. We can compliment each other, and assure that we all get what we want. But sadly it seems that both sides of the fence has to bash on the other, or the same sex bash on each other. It is fairly disgusting in my opinion.

Everyone has things they are good at, some are better at certain things than others, but I don't view that as being only because of what sex you are.

Sonja, I agree with you, oh my on the issue that everyone should put the toilet seat down, as when it is flushed, you are correct that whatever is in the toilet gets splashed all over the place. So, it is an issue, at least for me, of cleanliness.

And no, I do not believe that men in general have higher IQ's than women, I studied this a bit while in University. So those of you who like to believe that men are more intelligent than women, go ahead and keep believing what you will and ignore the evidence. I suppose it may be the only way you can feel "superior" and have some sort of one upmanship over others. Personally, I think it shows a lack of true intelligence to believe that just because you are a man that you are smarter than women.

I do feel that women have been intensely suppressed in our world, and hope that some day, that will not be the case. I hope that some day, no one anywhere will be suppressed based on sex, religion, race or sexual preferences.

An example of this is the fact that in the history of humanity, women have not been allowed to vote, own land, or make their own decisions. Women were "owned" by their husbands, and thankfully in many places that is changing. An example is that in the past, if a woman did not bring a hot lunch to her husband, he was allowed by law to cut off her left hand. Now, tell me, has such a thing ever been the situation of the opposite? Nope, never has a woman been the "owner" of her husband.

Ignoring what is true, is just keeping your head in the sand so that you can feel superior to others, when you should just feel proud of the accomplishments you, yourself do in this world, based on who YOU are, and not based on who others are.

Harm None
Peace

Originally posted by SeasickAs always, I believe your unspoken, yet crystal clear contempt towards women shines through on these types of threads that you always seem to flock to, and your zeal causes you to overlook many other facts. What about the scores of women and children who are raped, maimed and abused while men rampage in war?

Boohoo women. What I don't understand is why many women believe it to be appropriate to hide behind children in debates regarding gender. What do you mean women AND children are raped, maimed, and abused? Why are women and children considered one and the same? Is it because women and children have the same mental capacity and maturity level? I'm asking you.

Women are just as guilty if not more so of abusing children (children includes boys, btw). In fact, millions of women murder unborn children each year in the US alone. Does that mean anything to you? Call me naive, but I'd rather live and be raped than have my life snuffed out before I had a chance to do anything.

Men make up the majority of the fire force, police force, and our military force, et cetera. That's good enough for me. It pains me that people like you conveniently forget that.

BTW, I am a female veteran who upheld my duty and oath with honor and dignity.

If men and women were truly treated as equals, then you may have been kicked out of the military long ago. The physical requirements for women in the military are set much lower than men. That kind of Political Correctness is unfair and it weakens our military. Thank you for possibly weakening our military.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by YSM85]

Originally posted by amazed

And no, I do not believe that men in general have higher IQ's than women, I studied this a bit while in University. So those of you who like to believe that men are more intelligent than women, go ahead and keep believing what you will and ignore the evidence. I suppose it may be the only way you can feel "superior" and have some sort of one upmanship over others. Personally, I think it shows a lack of true intelligence to believe that just because you are a man that you are smarter than women.

This is a bit of misrepresentation of what people are saying. I’m a man, but I don’t think that I’m stronger than every single woman on this planet because I am a man; that’s simply not true. However, principally men are physically stronger than women because of their higher levels of testosterone. In the same way, there are studies which show that men on average have higher IQs than women. But does that mean that I’m smarter than every single woman? Surely not.


[edit on 21-6-2009 by YSM85]

reply to post by Sonya610


For me it was partly the germ thing, but mostly it was to keep the cats from playing in the toilet water.

Is there any question as to why I named Nugget (short for Buttnugget) the way I did. Seriously, that cat was always pushing his limits even as a kitten and became a serious ass. And now at 25lbs., he gets his way about playing with water...just so long as it is not from the toilet.

Originally posted by YSM85
Boohoo women. What I don't understand is why many women believe it to be appropriate to hide behind children in debates regarding gender.

Women are just as guilty if not more so of abusing children (children includes boys, btw).

Men make up the majority of the fire force, police force, and our military force, et cetera. That's good enough for me. It pains me that people like you conveniently forget that.

Wow. The definition of mysogyny! Switch teams, man on man love would be far more appropriate for you and will protect any women you come in contact with.

And in case you forgot, a woman birthed you. Possibly not the best decision she ever made, but you are HERE because a woman was willing to bring you into this world. Maybe that is all she did for you huh? Sounds like it.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by Sonya610]

Originally posted by Seasick

Originally posted by Edrick

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
IMO, men have treated women awfully in history, but this is only because they had the physical size to have the ability to do so.

Society has always treated men more poorly than women.

What percentage of all conscripted soldiers who have ever served and died throughout history have been women?

Men die to protect women's lives...

How is this not oppression of men?

-Edrick

As always, I believe your unspoken, yet crystal clear contempt towards women shines through on these types of threads that you always seem to flock to, and your zeal causes you to overlook many other facts.

Hi again Seasick... its good to know that if anyone disagrees with your theory of reality that they are automatically a woman hating, child rapeing, hate filled, troglodyte.

Biased much?

What about the scores of women and children who are raped, maimed and abused while men rampage in war?

What about the scores of men who put their lives on the line and die to protect those same women and children from these atrocities... you forgot them. Conveniently.

It is even referred to in "holy" books such as the bible and koran that sex slaves are permitted booty (no pun intended) in war.

While the men, on the other hand were considered ENEMY COMBATTENTS, tortured and killed.

Women and children SURVIVE in these instances, something that you seem to enjoy overlooking.

We all know the same things happen this day and age in war too, all too well, thanks to the media and reporters leaking these atrocities out to us. But I guess in your world that is just collateral damage, not oppression.

But I guess that in your world, a man's only notable contributions are Rape, murder, etc...

While the GREATER contributions, Like self sacrifice, honor, desency, chivalry, etc, are clearly forgotten.

BTW, I am a female veteran who upheld my duty and oath with honor and dignity. But maybe you should run your theory here past a few Congoese, Iraqi or Rwandan females.

My theory of what?

That men are the PRIMARY victims of every war that has EVER been fought... EVER?

That is not a theory your "Highness" that is documented, Solid FACT.

Grow up.

-Edrick

Originally posted by YSM85
Misogynistic? Or are you just throwing names around in an effort to stop any kind of discourse?

Yes, and? I also have a father.

Just calling it like I see it. : )

Yes fathers. Whole other topic. If father was that good you would not be oozing hate.

I find it decidedly interesting that any man who does not agree with the predominant theory of the Perfect woman that does no wrong, is ALWAYS the ONLY victim in ANY event...

Is automatically a hate filled, closet homosexual, who cannot get laid, no woman would want, has mommy issues, misogynist, etc....

Goes to show you the inability of most women to admit a truth if it takes the spotlight off of them, or shows them in a truthful light.

Just my 2 cents.

-Edrick

THREAD REMINDER.

Please let's stick to the topic and not each other. Personal attacks or posts towards other members are unnecessary and will be removed or snipped after this note.

Thank You.

Alright. This ends now. Take heed of what Ashley said. Further disruption will garner posting bans.

Originally posted by AshleyD
THREAD REMINDER.

Please let's stick to the topic and not each other. Personal attacks or posts towards other members are unnecessary and will be removed or snipped after this note.

Thank You.

Indeed.... getting back on track, about Sexism as an endemic part of society, I believe that it is.

But the thread title is Sexist in itself:

"Are people/men naturally sexist to women?"

As there is A LOT of anti-male sexism in the establishment also. (This thread is an example)

While it seems that most men and women just want to live together in peace, there ARE some who have Agendas for power, and will use "Sexism" as an excuse to get their vision for society implemented at the expense of free will.

So, linking the Phrase "Sexism" to mean only "Hatred and oppression of women" is in itself, a sexist notion.

Men are oppressed also, and in my opinion, far worse than women.

Yes, in the past (or other nations) women do not have as much choice as men, and they do not have as many freedoms as men.

But the also do not have as many Obligations, Duties, and Responsibilities as men.

Women may be subject to rape and slavery in wars....

But that is only if the men who have the obligation (Non Voluntary) to defend them, DIE FIRST.

And lets not forget, that half of all child abuse is perpetrated by a female.

www.findcounseling.com...

-Edrick (Ain't no sunshine when your gone)

reply to post by Edrick


Dear Edrick,

Firstly, my aplogies to the moderators if I have broken any rules. I assure you that my proverbial tounge is being bitten until it bleeds and, I am aware of the rules of engagement here.

Secondly, sticking to both topic and addressing your "points" Mr. Edrick, did I ever call you a child raping, woman hating, hate filled toroglodyte"? No, I certainly did not. What I said, was that woman and children are the unfortunate victims of war largely at the hand of men. I am not religious, nor and I trying to derail this into a religious debate on sex slaves, but here are some quotes from the bible and koran to support the sexist notions towards women in "holy" texts that support what I mentioned earlier:

From the bible:

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

From the ahadeeth:

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459:
Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:

I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."

For the record, I am not dismissing honorbale soldiers who fight valiantly to defend their nations and people...be they male or female. Say what you will about me as a female ex-soldier, but I am mightly proud of my contribution to my nation and my people, and I am likewise proud of the soldiers both male and female that served with honor beside me, as well as those that were before me and after me that are honorable. I just have issue with reading things like this, that happen at the hands of men, against women in war. This is NOT men "laying their lives on the line to protect and defend women". This is subjugation, terror and oppression:

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Then you have the gaul to say they survive. Well, at what cost? Again, I stand firm that you see these atrocities as little more than collateral damage in your mind. It's more than wrong, it's disgusting and non-human (the acts mentioned, not you).

I never said chivalrous, self-sacrificing, honorable men do not exist. It's a fact that they do. In fact, in a previous post, I plainly stated that despite the men that wounded my heart, I love men and refuse to paint them all with the same brush due to my bad experiences in the past. Please don't forgive my opinion, but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder against women to me.

In the interest of being civil, I won't even address your final comments directed to me. On topic, I will say that I do feel that women are generally more objectified, oppressed and underprivileged than men in most parts of the world, and not given chance to reach their full potential. As human beings I believe everyone deserves that chance.

Originally posted by YSM85
Boohoo women. What I don't understand is why many women believe it to be appropriate to hide behind children in debates regarding gender. What do you mean women AND children are raped, maimed, and abused? Why are women and children considered one and the same? Is it because women and children have the same mental capacity and maturity level? I'm asking you.

Women are just as guilty if not more so of abusing children (children includes boys, btw). In fact, millions of women murder unborn children each year in the US alone. Does that mean anything to you? Call me naive, but I'd rather live and be raped than have my life snuffed out before I had a chance to do anything.

Men make up the majority of the fire force, police force, and our military force, et cetera. That's good enough for me. It pains me that people like you conveniently forget that.

If men and women were truly treated as equals, then you may have been kicked out of the military long ago. The physical requirements for women in the military are set much lower than men. That kind of Political Correctness is unfair and it weakens our military. Thank you for possibly weakening our military.

[edit on 21-6-2009 by YSM85]

Hello YSM85,

I respect your opinions. I assure you that I was not hiding behind "women and children" in this discussion, which I can hardly call a reasonable debate from how it has went thus far. But in any case, I bring up the topic of civilian women and children as unfortunate casualties because history speaks to us of these horrors during war. It has been the sexist views towards women as less than man that have prompted men in war and other violent conflicts to rape and capture them. It's not limited to any one society or culture. Why do you ask me if women and children are "one and the same because they have the same mental capacity and maturity level"? I tactfully remind you, sir, that you are grasping at straws and seeing what you want to see in my posts, and misinterpreting my words to suit your own agenda. If you believe that, then those are you beliefs. Good luck with that going through life.

I don't believe that this is a topic addressing abortion, so maybe you can create your own, or add to one of the many others that are already open. I am not even going there. This post is about "Are people/men naturally sexist to women". I believe they are. Women (some) are catty and condescending to oen another. Women (some) are competitive and nasty to one another in the company of men. Cultural beliefs have made women second class citizens in most of the world, and only in more developed nations does this deviate. Women are subject to harmful practices like FGM and poor health care in nations where a male doctor is not allowed to attend a female patient. How many men own or have owned a magazine or watch entertainment that objectifies and demeans women? How many men have lost touch ultimately, with what a natural unadulturated woman's beauty is, due to the airbrushed images men are conditioned to lust after? All aspects of sexism, are cultural and subject to each individual and respective culture.

I wouldn't wish the trauma of rape or abuse upon anyone, and how you can speak so nonchalantly about such suffering to be faceitous and asinine towards me is insulting to the victims of such violence and pain. Peace be upon you. I wish no one any ill will. Also, I never negated that women abuse kids too, just as men do. But how many women gang rape men in times of war, and traffick men as sex slaves?

I also never negated that men comprise the majority of the fighting forces and police forces/firefighting services. I agree, men are generally physically stronger than women. You'll get no debate on that from me. I completed all my schooling and training in the military to standard, no exceptions were made for me. You're welcome for my service. I am proud to have served.

Originally posted by Edrick
I find it decidedly interesting that any man who does not agree with the predominant theory of the Perfect woman that does no wrong, is ALWAYS the ONLY victim in ANY event...

Is automatically a hate filled, closet homosexual, who cannot get laid, no woman would want, has mommy issues, misogynist, etc....

Goes to show you the inability of most women to admit a truth if it takes the spotlight off of them, or shows them in a truthful light.

Just my 2 cents.

-Edrick

Do you not find your statements to be grossly generalized towards all women? Have any women here spoken in such a way to you, or any other man? What would warrant such a response from you towards all women?