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Do you consider investment in ivory immoral?

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posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 10:23 PM
I wasn't sure where to put this thread but I think it's a political issue as well as a "moral" one...

Demand for ivory is killing of elephants and also causing lots of bloody fracas in Africa where rival gangs/millitary and paramilitary groups fight over the spoils, to get ivory, to get ivory products, etc. Similar to the "Blood Diamond"\ issue.

Yet from a purely economic view real elephant ivory is a limited commdity and demand remains strong, especially in east asia. (I find ivory Buddhist rosaries to be deliciously ironic...Buddha himself must be spinning in his grave at that one.) There is "legal ivory" that can be certified, bought, and invested in, but just because you have a piece of paper that says this is legal doesn't mean very much in the end...demand for the product, legal or illegal, will continue and most of the traffic will be illegal, until there are no more elephants (a day that may come faster than most suspect). After that, ivory can only go more precious.

So, simple question: do you consider the business activity of "legal" ivory investment as currently construed to be morally acceptable or not?

posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 10:40 PM
The Ivory trade should be outlawed worldwide.

To murder an animal for the sole reason of having a pretty knife handle or small sculpture, or because you think it will make you virile?????


Ivory is not medicine, It is not something mankind has a right to exploit when we're pushing animals to the point of extinction. This is happening right now with the Rhino's in Zimbabwe.

I'm all for using the natural resources this planet has to offer. Ivory is not one of those resources.

posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 10:52 PM
There is no need to slaughter animals for ivory these days.

Plastic and stainless steel do the same jobs, and do it better and cheaper.

There was a time when ivory was a valuable material, because of it's physical properties. but not now.

Likewise killing seals and whales for their oil was once a commercial necessity, but the refining of crude oil has long since replaced that barbaric practice.

There is nothing that you can make out of ivory that cannot be made out of something else, and killing animals for ivory should be banned worldwide.

posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 10:56 PM
Seal fur is "legal" in Greenland, although the manner in which they are harvested by clubbing baby seals to death is highly immoral. And seals are by no means an endangered species!

Just because something comes with a "Seal of Approval" doesn't make it right.

And if you are thinking, "it's just a product from an animal. It's no different than using wool from a sheep or using leather from a cow that was already being slaughtered for food." How would you feel about the investment trade of Bald Eagle feathers? (You did know that it is a Federal Felony to be in possession of a single Bald Eagle Feather that you find on the ground, right?) Or, if you Chinese, how would you take the investment trade of Panda foreskins? In both cases, the animal isn't killed, in most cases, to get those objects, but both are not only highly immoral but highly illegal!

Yes, ivory can be taken from an elephant without any harm coming to the animal. Yes, if it were a Rabbi performing the ceremony it would be "Kosher". That act, in and of itself is harmless and nothing is morally wrong with doing such.

HOWEVER, by putting value on an object such as ivory, it creates demand, which generates a number of people willing to supply ivory at any cost, whether it be inhumanely harvesting the ivory by slaughtering 60,000 elephants in one day, or starting revolutions, civil wars, and racial cleansings to control the ivory trade.

Also, elephants are endangered species. Even despite the world-wide bans on ivory, they are still being poached into extinction to generate the 130,000 lbs of poached ivory smuggled every year out of Africa alone.

Until people stop buying, investing in, or turning ivory into a commodity, to stop the demand, then the poaching will not stop, just as it hasn't stopped since the Convention of International Trade and Endangered Species of 1989.

Besides, elephants are the only other animal that we know of that are self-aware and cognizant. They are the second only to humans in the time in which they nurture their young (14 years instead of 18 like humans). They are one of the only animals that have multi-generational family units like we do (where children, mother, father and the inlaws live together). They are the only species other than us that remember their dead. They are the only species other than us that show a wide range of emotions. For all the intelligence we give to dolphins, they have nothing on elephants. Elephants really are the closest thing we have to intelligent non-human life on this planet. Is it fair that we drive them into extinction for the demand for ivory?

If people like Ivory so much, then why not try calcite, carnelian, lapis lazuli, basalt, limestone, soapstone, schist, turquoise, resin, or steatite as viable alternatives?

posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 10:57 PM
The Ivory trade as it stands is cruel and draconian to say the least. I'm surprised you're even asking the question!

It seems in China just about every endangered species with a horn such as the Rhino works as some form of Viagra... like they need Viagra with their population issues.. geez!

I don't mind people dealing in old Ivory items like sculptures and cutlery but they should be certified and dated. IMHO, people caught dealing in new Ivory or being caught poaching should get a life sentence. It's genocide and should be dealt with appropriately.


posted on Jun, 19 2009 @ 11:01 PM
reply to post by silent thunder

I am disgusted that this still occurs, sorry, but I had assumed it was outlawed and we were no longer allowed to trade it! Damn it! This is an abomination its is a disgrace, but then again, we as humans really do not have a good track record. Materialism is a good commodity at the moment as well!

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