France considering ban on burqas, spokesman says

Originally posted by tezzajw
If Western culture was so stable, then it would resist the burqa, wouldn't it?

Uhhh...the French ARE resisting the Burqa. That is the whole point of the article!

reply to post by Sonya610


Let me qualify, as I left out a word out. Thanks for forcing me to clarify.

If Western culture was so stable, then it would be able to successfully resist the burqa. It seems to me, that France isn't having much success. I'd love to see France try and resist the burqa...

So much for a stable Western culture, huh?

reply to post by mr-lizard


Well when labour get voted out thing's should change and all the piss taker's will get rooted out.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

Stick to trying to improve the quality of the airplanes that you manufacture, instead of worrying about what those oppressed females are wearing.

And why don't you stick to preaching about things you actually know things about, rather than comment on things you know nothing about. French aircraft are fantastic.

Originally posted by C0bzz

Stick to trying to improve the quality of the airplanes that you manufacture, instead of worrying about what those oppressed females are wearing.

And why don't you stick to preaching about things you actually know things about, rather than comment on things you know nothing about. French aircraft are fantastic.

Yeah, I've been told off about using humour on ATS before. I guess that one must have slipped through, huh?

I don't use smileys... you'll have to imagine that I was smiling when I typed it.

You're right though, the Airbus is a good plane, all of the recovered black boxes confirm that it is a good plane.

Anyway, these two posts are likely to be removed by a Moderator, they're both off topic.

reply to post by tezzajw


I dont really think its a case of where resistingit has more to do with frustration at a lack of respect by some to not adhere to the culture of where they live. Its just certain groups of people seem to think they can go live in a country and expect that country to change to there ways which is wrong.

France are trying to stop this albeit not in the best way as they are coming across as equally oppressive.

Would be nice if they respect the dress code of that nations is all just like I would wwhen visiting a nation of diffrent cultures.

reply to post by tezzajw


Burqua's a hideous abuse of woman. If they are found to have been coherced? Who will admit to that?
The consequences are profound, loss of families and children, and physical harm, or if austrocized, lifelong profound harm. What are you talking about, choice? This is an ugly facist, patriarchal cruel abuse of women and must be stopped from every corner of the world ASAP. But not with violence either, ie. war. Here, we do have laws of equality and they should be enforced. I don't want to see one ugly emblem of abuse of women walking in my streets even if the women was brainswashed into being so massively abused. Savvy? I'm not joking. This abuse must stop. We also need to join their movements to free those countries from those obscene religions. I would rather see everyone walking around NUDE than wearing symbols of oppression.

They need our support and help to free them from facism, not help by going in and dropping bombs by the way: The Roses of Iran!



Yes, politicians need to be told that tolerating any symbols of this abuse of women and inequality will be opposed vigorously until all pockets of this blight on humanity and inequality are gone. Its more holy to walk around nude than to do that to women.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by mystiq]

As much as I dislike Islamic sexism, I also dislike nationalism as a response to it, so I don't know what to think.

Originally posted by mystiq
What are you talking about, choice? This is an ugly facist, patriarchal cruel abuse of women and must be stopped from every corner of the world ASAP.

These are adult women. They choose to wear the burqa. I'm defending their right to do so. Surely, if they don't want to wear it, they can take it off?

If they're not happy with their religious laws, then they can choose to leave their religion. These women live in France, not the Middle East. If they feel that they are being harrassed, then they can complain to French authorities.

I would rather see everyone walking around NUDE than wearing symbols of oppression.

Yeah, me too. That's why I visit the beach in summer. Yummy.

Its more holy to walk around nude than to do that to women.

Now that's a religious world that I could live in...

reply to post by mystiq


Excellent post.

It is no only France who is thinking of banning the Burqa being worn in public the same discussion is in the Netherlands.

France has already banned the burqa and hijab from all public schools.

The burqa is a symbol of oppression, Iran, Saudi the Yemen etc etc these
countries have appalling womens rights issues and force the covering up of females in public.

Remember the horrific scenes from Afghanistan women being beaten for showing an ankle that still goes on in many parts of the world.
How do we know that a woman married to a Muslim fundamentalist would not get the same treatment behind closed doors, here in the West ... if she dared go out with flesh showing.

You're right though, the Airbus is a good plane, all of the recovered black boxes confirm that it is a good plane.

- I shouldnt find that funny im sorry.

Now then, i think your missing the point & i find myself banging my head against the wall reading your posts,
These women have NO CHOICE.
You say they choose to wear them & that they could report an abusive husband etc but that is so not going to happen. They wouldnt dare think about not wearing it or having an opinion/say on the matter because of the repurcussions.
I cannot see why you dont see this.
Dizzy lizzy above has clarified why.

[edit on 20/6/09 by cropmuncher]

Originally posted by cropmuncher
These women have NO CHOICE.

They're adult women, living in France. Of course they have a choice to wear a burqa or not. If they were living in the Middle East, then I would agree that they probably don't have any choice to wear one or not.

You say they choose to wear them & that they could report an abusive husband etc but that is so not going to happen.

Then, those women who are abused and don't report it, refuse to get help.

They wouldnt dare think about not wearing it or having an opinion/say on the matter because of the repurcussions.
I cannot see why you dont see this.

I can see it alright. I can see their religious beliefs for the farce that they are. If they wish to continue wearing a burqa, or face abuse, then that's their choice. They can stop that cycle of abuse, by approaching the French authorities for help and reporting their abusive husbands.

See, their religion is a joke. Well, to me it is. What better way to prove that it is a joke, than to let them actually live it and suffer for it? The sooner that these women wake up to themselves, the better off they will be. Trying to save them from their religion won't work. They either save themselves, or they stay slaves to their religion and their men. Ultimately, people can not be saved from their own stupidity.

Telling those women that they can't wear a burqa, is like telling me that I can't wear my heavy metal tshirt. I raise my middle finger to both suggestions.

reply to post by tezzajw


These are adult women who have been indoctrinated into this incredibly oppressive, physically, mentally, and spiritually abusive, mistreatment since childhood. They are not free in their hearts, minds or spirits. Furthermore, they are mothers, and it is ABUSE, to demonstrate this oppression to their children in thought, word, deed or by example. Their children's free will and mental health is at stake!!!!
If two people, wish to play out domination and sado-masochistic games, they may not do this around their children or other peoples children, ie. society. If they want to play sick fantasies of abuse out, they should be childless and living remote somewhere. But even then, these women are often physically, mentally, and verbally abuse, (being told you're not an equal adult human is abuse). Even in private, abuse is still a CRIME. To equate this to religion and the Creator is also sickness. That painting of God into a male dominating facist pig is an abuse against God!

[edit on 20-6-2009 by mystiq]

reply to post by tezzajw


I think its worth noting that when someone is being abused mentally or physically its not a simple matter of getting help. Its not that black and white im afraid. My partner's Father was an alcholic and used to beat her mother. It was not until she was nearly killed that she finally was able to get out. Even then there were times when she gave him another chance and that.

When someone is abused they tend to lose all there self-esteem and confidence. In alot of case they even belief they must have done something to deserve it etc.

Originally posted by mystiq

Yes, politicians need to be told that tolerating any symbols of this abuse of women and inequality will be opposed vigorously until all pockets of this blight on humanity and inequality are gone. Its more holy to walk around nude than to do that to women.

[edit on 20-6-2009 by mystiq]

Yeah I agree. People are not naturally sexist, it's just Muhammad was a pig, and he brainwashed entire cultures to think like him.

On second thought, screw the burqas.

Originally posted by mystiq
These are adult women who have been indoctrinated into this incredibly oppressive, physically, mentally, and spiritually abusive, mistreatment since childhood.

True, for some but I doubt that you can prove that has happened to all of them. Maybe they'll teach their sons that it's not the right thing to do when they grow up, huh? It would take thirty years to end the cycle of abuse, as you call it. The next generation could stop doing it and it would all be over.

They are not free in their hearts, minds or spirits.

That's debatable.

You've effectively labelled all women who wear a burqa as not being free. I would bet that some of them devoutly wear their burqa and love doing so. They would also argue with you that you're a heathen for not wearing one.

Like I stated before, ultimately you can't save people from their own stupidity. Some people don't want to be free or to be saved.

People do lots of strange things to worship whatever they think will judge them.

If the French government was really concerned about the welfare of these women, then they wouldn't pass a law banning the burqa, they would be setting up safe-houses for the muslim women who feel oppressed and need help to leave their religion.

reply to post by Donnie Darko


Clothing is a man made social custom, it is not a religous requirement for advancement and waking up spiritually. We may wear them to keep warm. Many might feel safer in them to some degree. But it is merely culture. However, abuse of women and dressing them in shrouds is not an acceptable cultural expression, for it is abusive, criminal and damaging to children to even witness it. That being said, the different costumes and apparel, including some of the lovely veils and dances, is delightful. I am working to the point of buying a golden shimmy outfit, excerscising full steam to get to that point. The point I made about it being holier to walk around nude than to have anyone enforce or permit abusive sickening shrouds of slavery, is obvious. The truth is evident simply by studying nature. When man abuses nature with his sick mind, and then calls it divine, to justify his insanity, he is lower than the animals he is trying to distant himself from.

reply to post by tezzajw

I do see what your saying & theres a certain cradle of filth tee shirt ive always wanted but cannot wear for fear of arrest by the police but they really dont have a choice when it comes down to it.
Sure they technically do but you surely can see that if they enforced their choice there would be backlash, not just from the husband but from the family, the community and there local religious leaders.
They are treated as second class citizens by there husbands and there religion and so unless they wanted to risk violence & being cut off from there religion/community/family etc then they will obey & conform.
Dont forget, were talking about people whom some of which kill their daughters etc for disgracing the family.

Not much of a choice left really with that in mind.

Also hoodies are banned in some areas of the uk!






[edit on 20/6/09 by cropmuncher]

reply to post by tezzajw


I don't have to prove it. A society that has women walking around dressed in death shrouds has proved it exclusively. This is massive abuse of women and children. I retract the part of being able to do it in private, childless. Even doing to yourself single and alone, is harm of self emotionally, mentally and spiritually, and eventually, pyshically, so the person needs counseling.

Originally posted by mystiq
reply to post by Donnie Darko

 

Clothing is a man made social custom, it is not a religous requirement for advancement and waking up spiritually. We may wear them to keep warm. Many might feel safer in them to some degree. But it is merely culture. However, abuse of women and dressing them in shrouds is not an acceptable cultural expression, for it is abusive, criminal and damaging to children to even witness it. That being said, the different costumes and apparel, including some of the lovely veils and dances, is delightful. I am working to the point of buying a golden shimmy outfit, excerscising full steam to get to that point. The point I made about it being holier to walk around nude than to have anyone enforce or permit abusive sickening shrouds of slavery, is obvious. The truth is evident simply by studying nature. When man abuses nature with his sick mind, and then calls it divine, to justify his insanity, he is lower than the animals he is trying to distant himself from.